Am I moving forwards or backwards?

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#1 May 24 - 12PM
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

Am I moving forwards or backwards?

Hello everyone,

It's a while since I've been on here, I've been trying to move on and last time I came here was for advise re my ex psychopath and the ongoing trauma he was putting me through :(

All that seems to have calmed down..... for the moment at least, I really AM moving on :) I look in here occasionally and feel really selfish for feeling so damned good after being ten months out of the nightmare. I have absolutely NO feelings of love toward my P now WHATSOEVER. I actually feel blessed to have escaped his clutches and have gotten to this point.

Hmmmm but now here is where my NEW problem lies. I joined a dating site a few months ago and met one or two guys who really weren't my cup of tea...I knew before even meeting them, but because of the person I am I somehow felt obliged to meet them anyway as they were so damned keen, and then proceeded to let them down gently...escaped the short dates as quickly as possible and vowed to try again. I have to admit to having a lot of fun on this site and it's boosted my confidence in a big way!

Now to my dilemma. Two weeks ago I went on a date with a guy I'd been speaking to for a few weeks and I really got on with him. It knocked me for 6 how we seemed to click, how much we had in common until something really strange happened. He mentioned once or twice about me resembling his boss, apart from being a little younger and slimmer and proceeded to show me a photograph that he found on a website on his I Phone? I have to be honest, she looked a little like me, but that was all....but that same evening she turned up in the pub we were in with her husband and another couple and apparently it was a COMPLETE co-incidence. Hmmm now this was a Tuesday night in my local town....these people, my date included, come from a city 20 miles away? He told me they came in and I proceeded to suggest we went and said hello to them. He was apprehensive and asked me to pretend I was his girlfriend WTF? At the time I was wine infused and didnt read too much into this. Then when I thought about it later thought....WOAH, hang on, there is something fishy here? If he'd never mentioned my resemblance to his boss and he hadnt brought our date forward at really short notice then it would have gone straight over my head, but serious alarm bells started ringing and I told him I would not be seeing him again. I left amicably after saying goodnight and he proceeded to text me saying how much he'd enjoyed our date, how wonderful he thoughtI was and please would I see him again? I woke up the next morning and thought what a lucky escape I'd had and was so very pleased with my little self for recognising red flags and knocking this on the head.

Oh dear....fast forward a week. He kept trying to get my attention re his profile and eventually sent me a message saying how sad he was that it had turned out this way, how very much he wished I'd believe this was a complete coincidence and if I gave him another shot he would prove he was not that sort of bloke. I caved!

We have been constantly in touch re phone and text and I met him for a second date on Sunday, we spent the entire day together and had a fantastic time. He makes me laugh, we seem to have so damned much in common, he kissed me on occasion and I went completely weak at the knees AHHHHH, he has told me LOADS about his past, wants me to go to his house, seems to have nothing to hide, I've spoken to his housemate a few times on the phone....he's full on wooing me with a vengeance.

What am I doing? I'm way too keen, its like he's sweeping me off my feet....bad sign right? But what if....just what IF he really IS genuine, he seems to be when I talk to him, laughs about this boss scinario, I'm getting a bit too bowled over by him....way more than my ex P at this time into the relationship. I've never felt so in tune with someone, compatable, it's like I've known him for years. Oh god help, I keep wanting to knock this all on the head now in case he's another nutjob, he's sooooo opposite to my ex though, seems so genuine, NICE, doesnt have that alluring psycho stare my ex had, which I mistook for sex appeal. My head is in bits! Am I not ready? Is this why I'm having all these doubts? Could I really have got straight out of the fryingpan to fall straight into the fire. Is he a real possible Mr Right and if I let him go cos of my fears, will I possibly regret this for the rest of my life?

He knows all about what happened with my ex and is extremely supportive and compassionate....I have even told him I know all about serious personality disorders and will analise the pants off him and he seems so confident that he will pass every test I throw at him. Or am I just a challenge and is this all an amusing game he might want to play with me. I've had enough of mind games for this lifetime :(

Oh hell, I'm just hoping if I come back here and relay how this is all going you will all help me decide whether I should or shouldn't go ahead with this and can maybe analise him with me as this process develops. Unless you all tell me to run a mile, cos if you do....I damned well will. No more heartache please.

Desprathousewife

ten months out :) and a whole new set of problems :(

May 29 - 8AM
Tinker
Tinker's picture

i just had time to read this...

meeting the last N after my exH Narc, i thought how different he was! he told me his life was an open book, talked about his prior relationships (fiance cheated on him but he handled it so well, why other relationships didn't work out, no bad-mouthing other women), how close he and his mother were until she died, how he was NOW ready for a real relationship and WOW did he turn on the charm (in a normal way of course). my point is, def keep up your guard. he's already caused a few red flags to fly, and we know how well they can start off really well to get you hooked. the big flag for me is that you're falling for him so quick and that he's so persuasive. let us know how it goes... and good luck
May 28 - 1PM
Journey
Journey's picture

Hey Despy, just wondering

Hey Despy, just wondering what's been happening the past couple of days since not seeing more from you here... I hope you are doing well xoxo Journey

Journey on...

May 28 - 2PM (Reply to #33)
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

Hi Journey

No problems, I've just been rushed off my feet the last couple of days is all. Back at work and spent all day and night out of town at a pop concert yesterday with a group of friends, now I'm back at work again all weekend uhmmm and spending Bank Holiday with HIM ;) He's monopolising my freetime either on the phone or wanting to see me when I'm free, although I'm not complaining, I need to get to know him properly and enjoy his company a lot. Don't worry, I have still got my guard up. It's just so good to have a full and happy life at the moment. After the nightmare ten months that have just passed, I feel like I'm PROPERLY moving on at last. I hope you are doing well too? When I have some freetime it would be nice to have a proper catch up. Love and hugs Despy :) xxxx
May 29 - 11AM (Reply to #34)
Journey
Journey's picture

Marissa has a real good point

Marissa has a real good point in her post above... I'm glad you are feeling good about new guy, I hope you read my last post below regarding my 'story'. I wanted to stress how some narcs really can seem so normal in the beginning. I know you want to enjoy this and good on ya, you deserve some happiness!! BUT, what you said about him monopolizing all your free time is a HUGE red flag to me. My ex did that and I mistook it for him falling in love in a real way and as a testament to how much fun I am. I am a lot of fun - lol! But little did I realize it was really all about him and real love had little to do with it. Journey on...

Journey on...

May 25 - 9AM
Happy1
Happy1's picture

Asking you to lie about being

Asking you to lie about being his girlfriend? This is his boss? And why would she care about such a thing? This is a professional relationship? My first thought honestly is that they have a thing going on. YOu can't avoid this red flag. He sends you a pic of her and then she shows up at the same bar. That's more than a coincidence I'm sorry. You have to either confront or take so EXTREMELY slow. Follow your gut on this.
May 25 - 11AM (Reply to #28)
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

Thanks everyone

I thought the exact same as all of you which is why I blew him straight out, although the girlfriend thing seems plausible only in that it was ME who suggested we go and say hello, he looked embarrased and has said that he asked me to do that out being embarrased to have been internet dating in the first place and didnt want to be the centre of office gossip. He really didnt want to go and see them, I sort of forced the issue as I was intrigued as to the complete so called coincidence of it all? Grrr I can sort of understand that bit, in away...another guy I dated a few years ago told all his friends he'd met me at a petrol station...WTF? lol....and this guy definantely wasnt a narc. Some guys seem to have such a stigma with meeting on the internet? The pic on his phone was off a website where his boss was in a newspaper article. He had to searc for it, it wasnt part of his photo collection. That really would have been a non negotiable alarm bell? Sheesh, I feel like I'm trying to stick up for him now....arghhhhhhh. I promise I'll take this real slow (she says as she's just heading off to his house for the evening. I havent been yet, he wants me to meet his housemate and see his surroundings etc? I'm not trying to avoid these red flags, just make sure they really ARE red flags and not just me being super alert and paranoid after what I've been through. I promise you all sincerely I'll be alert and careful and not jump into this unless I'm 100% satisfied that this is all above board. Thank you everyone. I value all your advise so much. Big hugs to you all xxxx
May 25 - 12PM (Reply to #30)
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

another red flag: avoiding

another red flag: avoiding introducing you to his boss, to begin with. forget asking you to lie. if he is embarassed of how he met you...how does that make you feel? honestly? he is embarassed of how he met you. period. he admitted it. so, why is he on the site then? crazymaking, and he's not even your bf yet. :P Just lookin out for ya. I think you should say goodbye. He might be hot...fun...makes you laugh...sexy. But, his character needs work. And at the end of the day...character is more important than all the fluff.
May 25 - 4PM (Reply to #31)
mynewlife2011
mynewlife2011's picture

Good point Diedre

When i read the post it didn't even occur to me that he had asked her to lie...I have a long way to go recognizing a Narc..but with your help I will get there:-0
May 25 - 12PM (Reply to #29)
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

He's embarassed to be

He's embarassed to be internet dating. He asked you to fib to his boss. No, it's not a colossal lie...but, he put you in an awkward position. Now, if you go to a company function, you'll feel awkward. I guess embarassed too, that he met you online? lol Who in the world goes up to someone to introduce another person and says...''I met this person on an internet dating site...her name is...'' hahaha Really? So a lie was needed? How about...''this is my friend, Jane.'' The boss is then going to interrogate him? Really? lol My take. And this is largely from being with 3 diff narcs. I learn lessons slowly, you could say. When a relationship starts off with weird explanations over trivial things...things that shouldn't and wouldn't be a big deal to the average bear...it's a red flag. He showed you he lies. So, lying to you now...will be easy. Just sayin. There was no reason to concoct a story ...''this is my friend, Jane'' would have sufficed. How old is he, too? Why does he 'need' a housemate? If he's 20 to 25...ok. Beyond that, another red flag. Means he doesn't a) make enough money to live on his own or b) sucks with finances, and needs someone to live with him. Women, I'm more understanding with 'housemates.' Not grown adult men. Sorry--I wish I could say you found a gem. And he may not be a narc. Not everyone who is shady, is a narc. But, he's shady. His asking you to make up a story, is shady. If I were out on a date with someone I met off the internet, I wouldn't tell the guy...''hey, there's my boss. Pretend you're my bf, ok?'' haha It's stupid at best. I'm sure he has good qualities. But, if he would ask you to lie for him, he will lie to you someday. Just sayin
May 25 - 9AM (Reply to #26)
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

BINGO! He's either effing

BINGO! He's either effing her...or was effing her. No need to lie about something like that to a boss? lol I calls it as I sees it. RUN FOR THE HILLS. Before you're duped again by a liar, narc.
May 25 - 10AM (Reply to #27)
Happy1
Happy1's picture

Deidre40

I'm with you! Get out now!!! He is lieing and hiding something that isn't worth finding out. RUN!!
May 25 - 9AM
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

and...you admit ''serious

and...you admit ''serious alarm'' bells went off. DON'T IGNORE THEM. That's what landed me with the last N. IGNORING STRONG, SCREAMING GUT FEELINGS TELLING ME TO LEAVE. If you had alarm bells going off...this means you sensed something very very wrong. Because men...good men...don't ask women on first dates to lie. He's bamboozled you with chasing after you...fawning all over you...which in normal scenarios can be very appealing and fun. Romance and dating should be fun, and whimsical. But, if he already showed you he's a liar...you know what to do. Eventually, he will lie...to you. JUST MY TWO CENTS. {{hugs}} Maybe not what you want to hear, but ....keep fishin' ;)
May 25 - 9AM
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

Only one thing stands

Only one thing stands out...he asked you to lie. To pretend you are his gf in front of his boss. Run...don't walk away from this man. Any man ...especially one you hardly know...that asks you to lie on a first date??? lol Really? RUN FOR THE HILLS. Mine swept me off my feet. It's very narcish behavior to make you feel like you're the ONE. We women sometimes fall for this, because we've been fed the Cinderella lies all our lives...that our prince will come. There are no princes, there are no fairy tales. Begging to see you after one date, is also strange. But...asking you to lie. I truly think you should let him go. There will be other men out there, whom you'll click and laugh with. Who won't ask you to lie. Makes you wonder if he's been fucking his boss, doesn't it? lol Made me wonder. And I don't know him. Hugs, and stay strong. I don't mean to sound harsh. But, he shouldn't have to ask you to lie. That screams volumes to me ...has nothing to do, with how you bumped into her.
May 26 - 11AM (Reply to #20)
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

Diedre40

Don't worry about sounding harsh, that is what I need here and I agree my gut reaction too was that he's fucking his boss! When I look back now though, if I hadn't seen her walk past me and recognise her picture and he hadn't proceeded to tell me he'd just bumped into his boss, I would have had no idea she was in there. He chose a remote quiet corner of the pub we went to so she would have had NO idea who he was with until I took it upon myself to press him to introduce us, which is where the asking me to pretend to be his girlfriend scinario started. And in fact when we did go and say hello, he just introduced me as Tracey anyway and we just made a few pleasantaried and walked away again? I've since learned that he has only been in the job for 4 weeks, so this was his first week at the company, she isnt his boss as in based in his office. She is an area manager who just pops in occasionally to check how things are going. I spent the evening and morning with him and am not long back home. I need to make a seperate post about this I guess? But the whole evening and morning spent in his company makes me doubt my first analogy. Unlike my ex P he talks so highly of people he knows....past and present. Opens up to me about his previous heartaches, but doesnt seem to harbour any hatred or malice towards the people that have hurt him and he also takes complete responsibility in a couple of his break-ups? It's all so confusing. My ex never really talked highly of ANYONE, even his own family. I guess I'm looking for similarities between them and can find none so far. He's apologised for asking me to pretend to be his girlfriend, I broached it with him last night and he says as I seemed to be pressuring him into going and introducing us, he just thought it would save any office gossip as he is so new to the job and I vaguely recollect him saying something similar on the night in question. I want my paranoia to have concrete grounds, and when I'm with him my fears evaporate as I sit and listen to him talk so openly? I'm trying to keep a clear head and not get in too deep. If I have any more red flags I will definately run for the hills I promise. :)
May 26 - 4PM (Reply to #23)
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

This could all work out

This could all work out fabulously. We all make mistakes. I hope that was just one of his...but, I can't help but feel, it's odd. I just want the best for you, not even knowing you--but we all share a common thread here. And just would hate to see you move so quickly with this guy, to find out...there was a reason he moved along so quick. I don't like how he said 'pressuring' to you, too. You 'pressured' him to introduce you? I doubt it. I am dating someone now. And he is day and night to the narc I was with. This guy, from what you say, sounds day and night. But, there are different kinds of narcs. For now...enjoy yourself. BUT PLEASE BE CAREFUL. I just hope he's on the up and up. I think that sometimes we can be ...skiddish because of our narc histories. A crimson red flag with narcs...is they ''fall in love'' very very quickly, and they want their partners to fall in love just as fast. But, that's not love, see. Love takes times. True love. If he is telling you he loves you already...BEEEEWARE. Just please please be careful, and go into this with your eyes and ears open. It's fun to date...it so is. It gives us a high. We want to be swept away. I just don't want to see you get hurt. Will be thinkin of ya!
May 26 - 11AM (Reply to #21)
Used
Used's picture

dhw

I so want him to be the one for you but i dont believe he is, re you beign the one who suggested going and introducing yourselves means nothing, yet he says you were pressuring him, oh dhw who does this sound like it pure projection and so what if he has only been in the job 4 weeks, he knows an awfully lot about this area manager, so you pressured him so much he asked you to say you were his girlfriend....well he may not have #been there#[her] but he wants to, he speaks well of other people, so what, ya know this doesnt smell good to me it smells fishy, and bottom line you wouldnt be back on here if you didnt think so to...sorry, who mets someone and says you look like my boss and then produces apicture of her OH PLEZZZZZZZE. HE HAD SHOWED HIS HAND AND YOU SHOULDNT LIKE THE CARDS HE HAS DEALT.....
May 26 - 1PM (Reply to #22)
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

You have hit the nail on the head as usual Used :)

I so wanty him to be the one for me....that speaks volumes and rings true I guess. I know it's way too early to tell and I seem to have started defending him? He just SEEMS so damned genuine, I'm so scared that he IS a PD and I get invloved he'll break my heart, but If I blow him out without being COMPLETELY sure that I'll regret it? If the last relationship hadn't happened to me then I wouldn't be questioning everything so much. I would be in this now completely, following my heart and time would tell. I don't want what happened to me with my P to cloud every further relationship. I went on a date with a guy I met on a night out a few months back and blew him straight out after he showed me a slight incling of jealousy. I feel I could jeapardise any future relationship by comparing and my emotions being so accute to all this? :(
May 25 - 5AM
Journey
Journey's picture

A few things concern me

Hi DHW! I am happy to hear you are moving on from you ex-psycho, but I would pay close attention to your gut right now about new guy. A few things stood out to me as red flags: 1. "It knocked me for 6 how we seemed to click, how much we had in common until something really strange happened." - the something strange was a very weird coincidence of running into his boss and my narc radar flashed that he was mirroring everything you wanted to see in order to get you to trust him enough to pretend to be his girlfriend for this woman's benefit. The why of course only he knows for sure, but the whole thing didn't sit right in my gut reading it. My suspicions even go so far as to think he may have had an affair with her and wanted her to see him with another woman he was supposedly more involved with than you were. You also said he upped your date to coincide with this night... hmmm. 2. You decided yourself that something was 'fishy' and told him you wouldn't see him anymore. He didn't let up though and persuaded you he was not 'that sort of bloke' and you caved. - he wore down your boundaries and by caving he found out he could. That in itself is dangerous for you as it gives him a feeling of power and control and I think even though you then proceeded to have a great time with him on your next date, please be very careful still. My ex would have had nothing to hide either and we laughed often together, but it didn't change the fact that he was a narc incapable of intimacy, full of charm and chemistry which won me over from the start. 3. "he's full on wooing me with a vengeance." "I'm way too keen, its like he's sweeping me off my feet....bad sign right? But what if....just what IF he really IS genuine, he seems to be when I talk to him, laughs about this boss scinario, I'm getting a bit too bowled over by him....way more than my ex P at this time into the relationship. I've never felt so in tune with someone, compatable, it's like I've known him for years." - I completely thought my exN was genuine too and I also thought we were completely compatible and that we were even destined to meet. Just remember that going into relationships quickly blinds us with infatuation. Again, be very, very careful. That in itself IS a red flag and the fact that you met on a dating site, for me waves that flag even harder. 4. "Is he a real possible Mr Right and if I let him go cos of my fears, will I possibly regret this for the rest of my life?" - my answer to that is if he is a real Mr Right you would not need to consider letting him go from fear because your guts would not be giving you any serious cause for concern which since you are here posting, tells me it is. I know it takes awhile to trust again and that is natural, but with a normal, I don't think that same fear comes up so much because it just feels safer, you know? I think with a normal there isn't that whirlwind feeling that sweeps us off our feet because the ground simply feels more solid underneath us based upon all our interactions with them right from the start. 5. "he knows all about what happened with my ex and is extremely supportive and compassionate....I have even told him I know all about serious personality disorders and will analise the pants off him and he seems so confident that he will pass every test I throw at him. Or am I just a challenge and is this all an amusing game he might want to play with me." - If he is a narc-o-path then he very well could be playing the compassionate 'friend' in order to gain your trust. Personally, I don't think I would want to share too soon with a new partner what I know about PD because I would be afraid that would just warn him (if he was one) how to act with me to convince me otherwise. Now, that is paranoid on my part perhaps, but the more they know about us early on, the more they can use that knowledge to their advantage. Again, be very careful and remember lying comes natural to the disordered. Now, I don't want to discourage you from continuing to date him, but I do want to encourage you to look at the fear you have about him being Mr. Right and what if you let him go and then regret it. Obviously you are already under his spell a bit and I think that is why you're a little freaked out. If he is Mr Right, I think you could back away a bit, take it slower and he will show you who he is within time by his actions and reactions to you having a need to go slow. A real Mr Right will respect that in you and won't stop being interested. All I really know is that I felt smitten from the start and felt completely bowled over with my exN. I thought he was Mr. Right and ignored the red flags as unimportant because I couldn't believe he wasn't Mr. Right since we had so much fun, had so much in common and my attraction to him was so strong. Now that I know narcs and psychos mirror our likes and dislikes, interests and values, I would be very cautious were I to feel all three of those compatibilities again right away with someone new. I don't want to be a downer, but trust yourself. Whenever you need to take a few days without contact with him to find clarity and feel balance - do it. If you sense from him any pressure to loosen your boundaries pay attention to it. Remember that persistence is not necessarily a sign of healthy, but more often a sign of needing to be in control. A truly healthy Mr Right will respect your boundaries and you will feel safe trusting him because he does. A narc can pretend to respect them, but will eventually show his true nature if his sense of control over you and your relationship isn't there. The disappointment you might feel now if it doesn't continue with new guy will be much easier than the heart break later if he turns into Mr Wrong. My 2 cents... only you know ultimately what your next move should be. I wish you the best!!!!!

Journey on...

May 25 - 9AM (Reply to #14)
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

Hey Journey :)

Hi sweety how are you? You're advise is SPOT on, I've been beating myself up over this and you put into words beautifully all my doubts and fears BUT....I need to clarify a few things here.... 1. Yes we met on a dating site but he in no way came on strong on that site, in fact, quite the opposite and he explained to me that he thought it was ME who was a bit of a player. Says he thought I was married as I never talked seriously, all my replies were full of banter and he just chatted to me because I made him laugh so much. He tried to get me to have a serious coversation with him one evening and it was only after that, that he gave me his phone number, rang me and that is when we really hit it off. 2. That first date was all down to me as to where we went in my local town, he doesn't know the area, I fetched him from the train station mid afternoon and I just took him to places I like and frequent, so unless he had her telephone number and was texting where we were? then he could not have known what pub we would be in. 3. The mirroring? I'm not sure? He really didn't know THAT much about me when we met. Nothing about my ex at that point. He did most of the talking, he seemed so open about his past relationships and the hurt he'd been through. Told me about the mother of his 3 children having an affair with his best friend and he only found out when his youngest son was 8 and he was confronted with the news that he wasn't his son, he was his best friends and how broken he was and how difficult it was to get over that relationship. Bare in mind here that he wants me to meet his children, his two daughters live not too far from him and he keeps telling how much they will love me? 4. When we bumped into this boss, I was outside having a cigarette and he was at the bar...she passed and looked familiar because of the picture and it clicked. I watched them say hello briefly and when I returned to our table (which incidentally was in a remote corner of this pub, a seat that he had chosen) it was ME who suggested we say hello after he mentioned them being there. He was very reluctant and now says he came up with the girlfriend scinario as he was embarrased that we had met from the internet and didnt want to be the talk of the office as he hasn't worked there that long. Plausible? 5. I haven't given him ANY control in this relationship so far, he doesn't seem to be pushing me in any way, it was my choice to give him another chance after he tried to allay all my doubts and fears with his explanations. 6. It's the trusting myself I have the biggest problem with. I know the way things are going I could so easily fall for this guy. The things he tells me about himself, the strange way we connect, have soooo much in common, the exact same sense of humour. We actually say the same thing at the same time in texts and burst into song together as we both love music. We read our stars together every night and they are so apt as to what is happening between us right now. 7. Walking away would be a bit difficult already. Yeah no lasting damage, but I'd be left with so many what ifs? 8. He doesnt even know what a narcisisst is damnit! LMAO, I refer to my ex as a psychopath and have not gone into any detail re what that entails. Yeah I've told him I'm on my guard, will not be put through the ringer again and know what to look out for from now on (hopefully). He thinks it kinda funny that I'd even consider his motives and intentions anything other than honourable. And lastly, we can't really rush this too much. He's an 18 mile drive away and is leaving everything up to me as to when we see each other. We speak on the phone for an hour or two daily and I have stated I will see him if and when I can. I don't feel pressured in any way, just scared to death of getting into something that is bad for me again :( I feel I may need to take this a little further but with my EYES WIDE OPEN this time around?
May 25 - 1PM (Reply to #15)
Journey
Journey's picture

Good Answers... but....

First, to answer how I am, I'll just say that except for being in financial crisis and ruin because of my last year with narc and the past (almost 2) since I've been in recovery, I'm doing great! lol - not really funny but I don't want to cry anymore :) Okay, back to you. I've read the other comments and I will agree that asking you to lie about being a gf is really unnecessary. After all, why would anyone he worked with have to know you met on a dating site, especially his boss while out having dinner with her husband? He could lie all he wants to at work about you if he was so embarrassed without asking you to do that on your first date. yikes. Okay, now in response to your answers: 1. He only asked you out after you did talk more about yourself and have a serious conversation. Hmmm... He thought you might be a player? Really? Or did he just think you were too strong for him and wasn't interested...? Was he using the faithful standby of projection perhaps? Maybe, maybe not. 2. This does seem like a peculiar coincidence if he had absolutely no say in where you went, but I should warn you, one of the reasons I was so struck by my exN was ALL of the very peculiar coincidences in the beginning because there were so many. That was another reason it felt so destined to be with him. Some he couldn't have orchestrated and I don't suspect as such, but now looking back I do suspect others might have been. I'll never know because he would lie to me if I questioned him, if it served him to. 3. Questioning his mirroring since he did most of the talking - well it sounds like he could have been giving you his sad story to appeal to your compassion which always lets our guard down a bit. That doesn't mean he wasn't mirroring what he then was believing your true nature is. With each response you show him during what he tells you, he can observe your reactions which tells him a lot. One of the earliest conversations I had with my ex was when he told me his previous gf had cheated on him. He didn't speak badly of her at all (the way other narcs do). - Oh, and already talking about you meeting his kids and how much they will LOVE you is VERY scary IMO. Most (healthy) single parents I know protect their kids from getting close to anyone they are dating until they know the relationship is serious and it is more likely to have a future than not. Saying he thinks they'd love you is one thing, but actually wanting to introduce you this soon is another. 4. Ya, the whole boss thing just doesn't sit right with me. The way he would feel embarrassed and such... really, for all she knew he could have met you anywhere and you could be an old friend, but he is presuming she would see 'internet dating' written on his face or something, or he would need to tell her during an introduction? That is just weird. 5. You say you haven't given him any control whatsoever, yet you say that after deciding not to continue seeing him he was persistent, expressed sadness that you felt that way and 'convinced' you with all his explaining that he was not that type of bloke. It sounds like he try to control you by this, it just wasn't the kind of controlling which is obvious, but he DID get you to give him another chance when your own instinct told you to run. 6. Trusting yourself being your biggest problem right now - yes, I understand. Again, I will only say that you are describing exactly how I felt with my narc. We were soooo compatible, right off the top. All through my relation with him we would say the same things at the same time - I was so taken by that and these things were what kept me believing he was my soul mate. Yet my narc had an uncanny (and I mean astounding) talent for saying exactly what characters on TV would say just before they did. It actually became a game for us, I would try to do it too and sometimes could, but he almost ALWAYS could. I haven't thought about this one before, just chalking it up to him having seen a show before or being smart and or lucky, but wow, that is weird. Almost like he was practicing his 'gift' at reading people come to think of it now. Holy crap! 7. I understand walking away now would be difficult and I think you should do what feels right for you - with eyes remaining wide open and boundaries firmly in place. Sleeping with him at this point I would advise against strongly and even drinking too much with him since that could numb your narcdar. 8. Not knowing about pathologies could be the truth, or not. There is no way to know if he is lying to you right now. One thing that struck me though, is that he would think it is kind of funny you would worry about that with him. I can hear the way my narc would do that to me - kind of teasing me that I could be so suspicious or that I could possibly suspect 'little ol' him' of such a 'crazy' thing. Personally, I think a normal would take your fears very seriously and not joke about it at all considering what you have been through. As a final note I will just say that I am only bringing my views up to make you think about these angles, not to convince you of them. I am glad you live far enough away to not see each other all the time. My ex left seeing him up to me too, always polite and asking if I would like it if he came over, yet was soon coming over every night. I thought it was my choice, but it was so hard for me to not see him if he expressed he wanted to see me. He had a power and control over me in that regard very early on to the point of completely monopolizing my time. The first devaluing occurred when he expressed that he didn't want to come over on the first night when I actually kind of needed him to (about 4 months in). It was so out of character for him that it caused insecurity to start up in me which until that point I had not felt at all in the relationship. He did end up coming over, but made sure I knew he thought I was dysfunctional a little by saying "Gee, I didn't realize how needy you are". That stung big, because I had made a point previously of telling him I didn't want to feel that way in a relationship, with my happiness dependent on someone else. Again, I will say, please be very, very careful because if you are anything like me, even with all I know now I tend to trust that people speak the truth and have good intentions when there is a lot of smiling and laughing involved. (((hugs)))

Journey on...

May 26 - 12PM (Reply to #16)
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

You are gonna keep me grounded Journey...thanks LOL

Jeez I'm sorry to hear about the bastard taking you down financially, but so pleased to hear that you are doing so well in recovery. I can tell that with all your wise advise. I should be able to give myself this advise by now, seems when it comes to dating I'm really out of practice and am on high alert. In response to your response ;) 1. I totally get why he would think I was married or a bit of a player, its not the first time I've been accused of that. The site that I am on, my whole profile is a bit of a farse. I use silly names, write daft rhymes and hardly ever talk seriously to anyone on there.....it isn't a Match.com type of site, its to meet, make friends, chat, flirt and have fun and that is how I use it. I don't want to come over as a deperado in need of love. I don't want to meet any guy who comes and says hello on there, so with my humour I keep my distance and have been patiently waiting to see if I connect with someone like minded. Very hard seeing as I have such a whimsical and unique sense of humour, but he has it too. That is why when he tried to talk seriously, I was open and honest and then let him make the moves and ask me out. 2. I really need your help with this issue, I've never been in this sort of situation of feeling so intune with someone mentally. With my ex P it was pure lust whoooops ;) 3. The same with the mirroring, didnt get that too much with my P, dont think he had the mental capacity to be able to pull it off. I can explain the children thing though....his daughters are grown women, 22 and 25, they arent youngsters who would be damaged from being introduced to their father's new lady friend quite quickly, although he hasn't arranged anything, just told me when we meet they will like me. So that doesnt particularly worry me as my children are pretty grown up to and I would have no problem with them meeting him either! 4. Back to the boss thing, yeah still a bit weird, but after chatting to him again last night I'm even feeling less concerned about that seeing as he is so new to the job and he doesnt work in the same office. I just had a thought, I should ask him where she lives, she may even live in this area hense being in the pub that night....food for thought? 5. Control, I guess this is a major let down of mine. My heart has always ruled my head so I'm going to try and work on this. 6. I really need you on this one. If my new guy is indeed a narc, then he matches yours and you will be invaluable to me here. 7. Cripes, I should have read this yesterday afternoon before heading off to his.....uhhh hum. I need to write a new post re this. I'm a little ashamed of myself....well a lot :( 8. I have told him only a little of what happened with me ex P, heck I thought I'd scare him off if I poured my heart out, so have been keeping it lighthearted myself, which is probably why he is too? Your views mean a lot to me Journey, what you have been through could possibly, but hopefully not, be what I could be heading toward and your experience could save me from disaster. I only have my ex P to go on, and as these guys are worlds apart on all levels, your wisdom and outside perspective are very much appreciated :) Thanks so much xxx
May 26 - 3PM (Reply to #17)
Journey
Journey's picture

I'm glad I can help, really.

I'm glad I can help, really. I don't want to come across too paranoid or like I'm judging or trying to convince you of anything. I read your other topic today btw so I know what happened last night. There are a lot of similarities about your new guy to my ex. I was also the first one to initiate sex. I had no idea that he could be a predator because the connection I felt was way stronger than I've ever known before and I seemed to be the one who was convincing him that we would be good together in the very early days. We hear the stories of love at first sight and these working out, being real. I had given up on those stories long before meeting narc and really didn't think along those lines anymore at all about relationships (I was 47 yrs old when we met and had never been narc-ed before, but had my share of dead end relationships). Narc brought all that magical thinking back. He was perfect to me in the beginning. He seldom spoke of ex's in a negative way and would take responsibility often for the endings as his own. He would say he just wasn't happy anymore with them and if there was a reason that suggested it was their doing (such as one who cheated), he told me, but usually there wasn't. Mine seemed to have self reflection and often talked about enlightenment, living in the moment, a higher purpose, non-attachment. I looked up to so much about his character, believing he was an honest man, capable of deep love and thoughts. For the first 4 months he was in awe of me and my talents. He asked my advice on things that mattered, he listened so well and I was willing to share everything because I felt a connection I believed to be real, solid and honest. When the control, manipulation and withholding began it was unexpected and very covert. My instincts confused me all throughout the relationship after that and the cog dis was such that I was constantly adjusting to his ever changing moods and ideas. When he started doing things that were obviously hurting me, the confusion became horrendous because he was also a moment later reaffirming what I had been believing about him so I stayed, I waited, I forgave, I believed I was where I was supposed to be the whole time. I felt helpless to get away. It seemed like what he asked of me was what I should do as a person in my own spiritual growth. I justified my discomfort as learning to live more in the moment, accepting another as they are, without expectations or living in the future. My narc had brainwashed me into being blind to the emotional abuse for what it was and my self esteem and strength was slowly destroyed over time with him (we were together 2 yrs). As far as the compatibility goes - we were a perfect fit. And I am not just saying that. I think it is why our relationship lasted as long as it did for both of us. I don't want to get into identifying details right now, but for a while we spent every day working on three significant collaborative projects while also living together. I know he wasn't cheating and he seemed happy to be there with me. The only fights we had were about my reactions to his behavior. I would get the silent treatment and withholding as punishment for not 'letting him be himself' or for 'making him feel like he was being controlled or manipulated', then the next I knew he'd be all 'normal' again as if it didn't happen. If I was still upset or even showed disappointment or sadness at all, I wasn't living in the moment and I needed to learn how to compartmentalize and get over it. Wasn't I having fun with him now? Why isn't what you have right now ever good enough? Ahhhhh!!!! It was such a mind fu*k!!! In the end he did what every narc does. Very quickly withdrew from having much interest anymore in our projects or me. Withheld intimacy, started searching new supply elsewhere without me (after being so incredibly close I wasn't welcome any more to accompany him to do things), quickly found new supply, broke up with me the first chance he could afterward when it would seem to appear to be my fault (he hates anyone thinking badly of him), and then left taking only what he could fit in his vehicle like he couldn't get away fast enough because I had become so contemptuous in his eyes. Anyway, I say all this only so that you can see just how different narcs approach their supply, the connection it seems they are able to make and how even when by all intense purposes it should work out, a narc is a narc is a narc. Your new guy may not be one and I will be so happy if you find a true partner with him. I think comparing his behavior to your ex psycho is not a good gauge though. My ex never threatened me physically or even verbally. He seldom yelled and I don't think he ever called me names. He had anger that came out passively and I didn't see that in any obvious way for a long time. Looking back there were little things, like the way he drove sometimes, the way he awoke grumpy before putting on the mask. Because we had so much in common however, it was easier with me to keep the mask on. I was great for him. We laughed all the time about stuff and I was his perfect audience. I adored him from the start. I was perfect supply. He used me to advance his own agenda and when I had little left anymore to give after being so worn down emotionally, he got bored of trying to accomplish his agenda by using me since I wasn't as useful anymore in my state and left. Done, over, complete. He has never hoovered romantically or led me to believe he ever will. That too is not typical narc behavior, but I've come to the conclusion that he is a narc based on the total of him, his behavior, his history and what I know of his present life, versus the particular little traits that identify them so. Just be very careful with this new guy. Underneath what he is showing you now, he may just be as cocky, arrogant and confident as mine. The kind of narc that doesn't need to start showing his manipulating and controlling behavior from the start because they are so sure of their game. They can take their time because they know this tactic works, that we give ourselves over to them almost because of it. They seem harmless in their 'pretend patience', that they truly want us and feel the same way we do when the intimacy develops, but they also know that by acting this way and not coming on too strong we are more likely to fall for them and trust they are authentic. Remember the very wise words that "if it seems too good to be true, it might be". Don't let yourself stop yourself from being cautious with him out of a fear of being too paranoid or careful or losing him if you are. If he is the real deal, he won't leave that easily because he will care that you need to process it your own way in order to learn to trust him. I haven't dated anyone since my narc and I often think what is the point any more because I can't imagine finding someone I will get along with so well or have so much in common with or love so deeply ever again. I hope I'm wrong, but THAT was what kept me with him and drew me to him. He was the man of my dreams and I know if he wasn't disordered I could have been happy with him the rest of my life. I have never been so sure of that with anyone else. So Despy, take my story for what it's worth and keep your eyes open. The manipulation with mine started real small and by the time it became truly harmful to me I was blind to see it.

Journey on...

May 26 - 3PM (Reply to #18)
mynewlife2011
mynewlife2011's picture

Journey

I am happy you broached this subject re:initiating intimacy. I have always been very chaste, never having intimacy without commitment. My ExNH i dated probably 30 times before we were intimate. We had actually spent the night at each others residences without intimacy several times. Just because they are sex addicts, and in need of supply does not mean they will be aggressive initiating intimacy. They lie in wait, prey on generous hearts, and then ambush.
May 25 - 7AM (Reply to #12)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

You nailed it Journey

No doubt in my mind. You are 100% correct. Despy, end it now, BEFORE, you get "hooked." This is pure bullshit. Trust your first instincts. God bless, Goldie
May 25 - 9AM (Reply to #13)
desprathousewife
desprathousewife's picture

Goldie

That was my immediate reaction when it first happened and I DID end it. I guess after rethinking and listening to his explanations I feel I need to give him at least a chance to prove himself? That's all he's asked for from me so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that giving him that chance will give me a chance to hopefully work out his true colours. Maybe this could be some kind of experiment? Narc or not a Narc...that is the question? Watch this space LOL
May 25 - 12AM
ifinallygotit
ifinallygotit's picture

Not a coincidence

Something weird is up. Why is he even thinking about his boss on a date with a stranger and why is he showing you her pic? Then she shows up in bar in a city 20 miles away with he husband? Then he asks you to pretend you are his GF? Something is definitely up - sounds like he was using you as a cover for something, and it ain't good. You are not yet emotionally invested so it will be easy to get out. You don't want to be back in the mess we are climbing out of do you? I am so happy for you that you have recovered from your N experience. Now you can practice new skills.
May 24 - 8PM
Arwen
Arwen's picture

"...He mentioned once or

"...He mentioned once or twice about me resembling his boss, apart from being a little younger and slimmer and proceeded to show me a photograph that he found on a website on his I Phone? I have to be honest, she looked a little like me, but that was all....but that same evening she turned up in the pub we were in with her husband and another couple and apparently it was a COMPLETE co-incidence. Hmmm now this was a Tuesday night in my local town....these people, my date included, come from a city 20 miles away? He told me they came in and I proceeded to suggest we went and said hello to them. He was apprehensive and asked me to pretend I was his girlfriend WTF?". You're damn right desprat...what the fuck? Look at what you just wrote. Co-incidence that she showed up? And what's all this about asking you to say you are his GF? And what the fuck he does he have his bosses photo doing on his iphone? Oh man you are in for it baby. You know you are. Sorry. This is complete bullshit honey.
May 24 - 2PM
Ladydb123
Ladydb123's picture

????

I third the "trust your gut" comments. I noticed all the ??? in your post. Some thing is not setting well with you. I feel if this guy is really interested in you he would not pressure you and will let a relationship develop slowly over time. It makes me angry also that men think all single women are desperately looking for a man. I have only been here for 5 weeks and I am learning so much. You know your situation better than anyone. Slow and steady often wins the race........
May 24 - 2PM (Reply to #8)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Ladydb

"slow and steady wins the race" my narcwould say that all the time! Grrrrrrr now I know what the SOB meant! God I hate him! Desperate, follow your gut! Hunter
May 24 - 1PM
mynewlife2011
mynewlife2011's picture

Too soon for issues

I am an eternal optimist by nature..(how else do you think I survived a 13 year marriage with my ExNH who was a consistant cheater, aggrivated abuser, repugnant rager, acute alcoholic, eccentric egomaniac, and a low-life liar- wow! that is a mouthful.) I think it is much too soon in your new realtionship to see any problems (real or imagined.) it may be that it was a completely innocent occurance, and you have not healed enough to open yourself up to a new relationship..OR It may be that this guy is a master manipulator and you are just a character in his script he created, and he has ulterior motives. I say..trust your gut! Are you going to say "no" to a new path promising possibilities? In your heart and mind, you need to put the past completely behind you to do this (and 10 months may not be enough time.) You must be able to live in the moment as it is the now that counts. From your past, like all of us here, your values have changed. As a result, transformation occurs, and you no longer want in a partner what you used to. The pain we endured as victims of N. has forever "pruned"us, and transformed us. This new growth will most likely be an ongoing process for several years. You may surprise yourself with your choices. I say, follow the path that smiles and beckons. If it helps your self esteem to be on a dating website, and improves your self confidence- it is okay. But realize 2 things. 1) we don't need validation from others (especially strangers whose opinion doesn't really mean squat)to know we are beautiful and worth loving (I had to learn this one the hard way..always trying to prove I was worth having and loving.) and 2)Turn away from a path where you hit the same obstacle over and over. Aren't you tired of that? Of course you are. Fearlessly release old habits, patterns and situations that no longer work. Make way for this continued growth..enjoy this journey of redidicating your life and love to YOURSELF! Hugs!! and many xxx