About Co-dependency and other thoughts

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#1 Sep 16 - 4AM
greengirl91
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About Co-dependency and other thoughts

My name is GG. And I`m a Co-dependent. That`s how members of usually Alcoholics Anonymous present themselfs. A co-dependent is not far from the alcoholic as regarding the addiction. It`s just, he hasn`t got the booze. It`s the addiction to a person. And not ANY person. Many times, a toxic disordered one, or a Narcisist.

It hit me today, after some anxiety rushes and some days when I felt emotionally overwhelmed. I snooped again and I`m not proud of me, I have to stop. I raise my hand being totally responsible for this.

And I remembered about some stuff I read about in the book "Co-dependent no more", and thought it might be useful to some of you, and of course to myself.

- That we are the ones that give away the power of our lives.

- Many people react to our way of treating them, of handling them the power of our lives, our souls on a plate.

- People pleasing? What is the core of our issues, that makes us always thinking and believing ALWAYS another person has the ANSWERS, the key to our happiness.

- Like most and many, I could be very well fitting the definiton of CO-DEPENDENCE.

- Co-dependents, are EMPATHS, people who tend to "feel too much", or "feel things at a bigger intensity" than most.

- Many co-dependents, grew in an environment with possible a disordered parent, an alcoholic. He/she took care of that person, and most of the times, took the BLAME, for that parent`s unpredictable, inconsistent behaviour; was more than one time, often made to feel insignificant unimportant, and blamed for the mood swings of the alcoholic/addict/disordered one.

- Most probably of the time, the co-dependent person, didn`t have a shoulder to cry on; to express his feelings, to hear himself and understand himself. Because most of the time, THE PROBLEM was always about the disordered toxic parent.

- The codependent`s needs are often neglected or totally forgotten. By the others, and later by his own self.

- He believes that if his needs haven`t been filled, if his voice hasn`t been listened, he MUST be a nobody. WORTHLESS. That is the coreidea at the depth of a codependent person.

- Codependents are wounded souls, often engaging in relationships, often abusive, with the same type of character, as the TOXIC parent. This is HOME for him. He hasn`t had another, and no matter how "apparently good" would feel in other "places" (interactions with non-toxic people), you know what they say, "there`s no place like HOME".

-Only that in this case, the co-dependent keeps repeating, and repeating the cycle, picking toxic people, who bring to the surface exactly the same old wounds.

- He does that uncounsciously, trying to FIX something in the past. The relationshiptoxic-parent-child maybe? Expecting to "finnaly", be LOVED RIGHT.

- What the co-dependent does not understand and ACCEPT yet, is that asking from a NARCISISTIC-toxic-parent, to give LOVE in a healthy way, is like asking the colour of the rainbow, to a person who is COLOURBLIND.

- He has to "GIVE UP" trying to fix the past finnaly. To Accept. Feel the feelings. And then Let Go. It is a painful process, and a journey that requires hard working and determination from the codependent. Determination to heal, to HAVE a voice, to stop and give up the urge to control everything, and save everything.

- To take small steps into his listening of a soul, and time to develop a relationship with his own lost self.

- He has to learn to look within. And stop taking the BLAME for feeling ANGER, SADNESS, TEARS.

- Somebody once DID made him feel that way, it is not his imagination. He didn`t let those feelings out, but repressed them; that`s just one of the explanations why co-dependents have ANXIETY ATTACKS.

- There is a lot of repressed ANGER out there.

- They were often made to feel GUILTY for feeling angry. They were made to feel it was THEIR fault, many times. That false guilt is to the core of co-dependent behaviour.

- Imagine the co-dependent this way, the alcoholic has the booze, the addict has the crack. The Co-dependent had to go through all those stages of anger, rage, hate turning hate into himself, and repress, SOBER. He is like a sleepy volcano with all those emotions.

- Being a co-dependent myself, I run from those feelings. I still do. I`m afraid to tottally get into them, especially the anger, since I hate myself from feeling it, I don`t know how to deal with it.

- They say often in therapy, that the way a person deals with their anger influences his/her life, in positive or negative ways.

- I`ve read on a site, about mending the wounded children within, that we have to FEEL THE FEELINGS, WITHOUT TAKING THE BLAME.

- It was interesting, it also said, there are many parts of us wounded by toxic relationships (especially if you had a toxic parent): The Angry child, The Lost child, The Unloved child, The Magic-Thinking child..

- And each time, you have the urge, the need to seek for a solution outside of yourself (like codependents often believe that the toxic partner holds the key to their happiness, or sadness), it means in that moment, you have an UNMET NEED.

- Look for it, talk to yourself in those moments, as crazy as it sounds, in your mind. Reach there, like your Inner Loving Parent that you should have had, would do. Hug yourself.

- Take a worm bubble bath with yourself, or watch a comedy. BE THERE for yourself, in your life. Your soul needs that more than ever.

- And slowly, maybe you`ll learn to find happiness within, having a relationship with yourself, filling your child within needs, and having fun.

- We somehow trusted that the Narcisist holds all the answers to our happiness. We`ve been conditioned to that thinking. If we learn to discover beauty in ourselfs, and no longer feel we have to NEED something from OUTSIDE, to be HAPPY, then we would attract people who treat us healthy, enjoy a sunshine and a wind breeze differently.

- We were made to think we are nothing WITHOUT the Narcisist.

We can STOP this.

Even in religion, take example from Jesus Christ who said: "love somebody else, like you LOVE YOURSELF".

We have to learn and dig deeper into the second part of the phrase :-)

Then, we would be able to findpeople that treat us healthy, worthy, as we truly deserve.

A lot of codependents are overy sensitive, needy people, sometimes they overwork or overdo, trust the wrong kind of people with their soul on a plate, thinking they don`t deserve more than this.

But they DO. They have to learn to free themselfs from the negative thoughs, from the "programming" of the Past.

If we keep running from feeling this, there will always be some other Narc, to "school us" back in, and "punish" us, for our "ungrateful" behaviour.

We have to stop handling them the Power. They are good leaders, but they are NOT good people.

We have to stop running from ourselfs. It is hard work, it is not easy, but I know there must be peace at the end of this addiction. Our peace, our independece and sanity!

P.S: And for the record, did I mention that I snooped again? I feel guilty from myself. I wrote this as a motivation to keep me holding on, to the healthyer side of me. I want to be total NC, and now there`s nobody else to blame, I did it volountarely. Didn`t bothered him, or contacted him, but I feel guilty from all the positive support I received here and wonderful people who keep encouraging me.

Oh, and thank you for reading this by the way! It`s an awful long post, but hope there are some good ideas in it. Before finding this forum, I tried that method with mending my wounded inner child, when I felt the urge to seek the N. And it worked for some while :-)

Sep 18 - 12AM
strivingforhealing (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

greengirl91 I really enjoy your insights

they resonate strongly with me- my past and my present journey. I think I am a RECOVERING Co dependent. I think the recovery started in direct relation to my pain over the N relationship. This utter devastation forced me to look at the causes- one of which was my bad boundaries, my need for approval, and my low self esteem. I actually have this painful rollercoaster relationship to thank for learning how to set stronger boundaries AND for sometimes putting myself first. I have become a stronger woman who knows when to say No and when to pause and when to listen to my gut. Recovering Co dependent and proud of it!
Sep 19 - 4AM (Reply to #17)
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

Thank you,

Thank you, strivingforhealing, I`m a recovering codependent as well, in the process! I believe there are many of us here, who share these symptoms, because we often get caught up in relationship with Narcisists. For people who find about this the first time, here are some links that helped me a lot, when I discovered this. Fragments from the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie, most useful, because it is written from someone who knows how it is to live with this, and doesn`t judge you. We need KINDNESS, most of all. That`s the way she wrote this book. http://books.google.com/books?id=JX-IeLk-9T0C&printsec=frontcover&hl=ro&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false The second link, is a fable about codependents and addiction. I found it very interesting, and hilarious also, when you think about it. When two people want to fulfill each other`s needs, through the partner, it gets CRAZY. http://www.love-your-inner-child.com/FABLECODEPND.HTM The third link, is a blog about codependency, from a codependent woman called Sara. It helps you understand your spots and symptoms as well. http://conqueringcodependence.blogspot.com/2010/03/hi-my-name-is-sara-and-im-codependent.html I wrote this not as a commercial to codependency, but because many people who get involved with Narcisistic males, share some of these symptoms..addiction to a person. Maybe identifying the symptoms, and working on OUR vulnerable spots, will make us LESS vulnerable for predators. The Narcisists and Toxic ones. And help us be on a healthy road. Peace to you!
Sep 17 - 1AM
Caligirl
Caligirl's picture

greengirl, interesting post and something I think I need

to revisit. About 20 years ago, I read some books on co-dep and was seeing a counselor after what I believed was just an intense r/s that ended badly. I attended an al-anon meeting with a gf. I made much progress. I have since learned my mother is a N (read an article on N moms and fit her to a t, but before that a therapist told me). I think my father may have been a N too, but I'm not sure. He had many addictions: cigarettes, alcohol, sexual, and was very insecure, but also the life of the party guy. I was married for 10 years to a good man, not perfect, but it was a solid, pretty good marriage. He wasn't disordered or abusive, although he began to drink heavily the last few years. He had a drinking problem in college, but once he got out and got a good job, he gave up alchohol completely. We divorced without too much ado. I was doing well, and then began having sudden medical issues. I was all.alone in a big city, disabled 100%. In came my exN, via FB and LDR. So maybe I will need to look into Co-dep issues once again. Thank you for posting this!
Sep 17 - 9PM (Reply to #14)
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

Caligirl, for you, for me and

Caligirl, for you, for me and for everyone who needs a reminder about this pattern behaviour, here is a link with some parts of the book "The Dance of the Wounded Souls". I haven`t read it entireley, just fragments, but it helped me understand codependency more: http://www.woundedsouls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=149&Itemid=83 Just in case!
Sep 18 - 9PM (Reply to #15)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Thats a wonderful book

Thats a wonderful book
Sep 16 - 9PM
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

Thank you everyone for your

Thank you everyone for your replyes. It only shows that many of us share the same symptoms, and maybe together we can identify better the patterns of this. Listen, I don`t believe that if we are co-dependents, we have to wear a scarlet letter on our forheads, with this label. This shouldn`t stop us from being ourselfs, from living, from having fun! For people who read this now, and are new to the term "Co-Dependence", listen, it`s not like you live with a handycap or something. It is a behavior pattern, formed as reaction to the environment some of us grew in. We developed this self-harm pattern, just like the Narcisist developed his, as a reaction to his environment and people. Only that in our case, we are not numb. On the contrary, actually, we feel too much, too soon, and give ourselfs away on a plate. We keep trying and trying to save and fix our relationship with the toxic family, in the past. THIS stops us from being free, and totally commited to the present. I`ve written this, in the hope that together we can identify, and remind ourselfs that, before we start engaging into our addiction (in this case the Toxic Narcisist), to fill our need first. To reach there, be kind to ourselfs, and ask "Why do you want this now? What do you REALLY want?". Last but not least, we`re not alone in this. To make it short, each time, we HURT ourselfs, we continue to GIVE AWAY OUR POWER. To the toxic person. If it`s not Narcisist 1, it will be another. Our vulnerability is what attracts these type of people. They love to INFLICT pain. We are used to take it. We need to free ourselfs from the false guilt and "programming". Be ourselfs, be beautiful, be free. Rcognising these behaviours, and trying to change them, are one of the positive things we can do to stop this cycle of addiction and abuse. Once we have a healthy relationship with ourselfs, we can have a healthy relationship with LIFE. And therefore, with healthy people. Thank you for your answers, we`re not alone in this :-)
Sep 16 - 5PM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Thanks for sharing; good stuff

I can relate to all of this. The childhood of dysfunction, the serial bad relationships, the blaming myself, not good enough. The whole thing. Recovery from CoD. is a long slow process. I have been improving from this for years and the narc was the worst and most familar from my childhood. Being with the narc is what finally helped me to make the connection that my dad was a narc/psychopath with no regard or real feelings towards me. We all knew there was something wrong with him, we just never made the connection. My mom was a beautiful sweet woman most of the time, and then she began drinking and became an alcoholic and things went downhill from there and between the two of them, we had no concept of what a loving healthy relationship between parents would look like. She went into recovery when I was a teen and she died sober which was great because it gave us a chance to heal our relationship before she died. With my dad of course, there is no healing the relationship, he is the same today as he was when I was a child, completely unavailable on all levels. Some on here don't care for the Cod. label, for various reasons, and some only had the one relationship with the narc and their childhood was o.k. Many though do see the childhood/adult choices connection and this information is great for those who can relate to it. Changing life patterns is not easy, and sometimes it takes hitting a bottom and going through hell and back to begin to make these connections and begin to do the work at changing our own patterns. God bless, Goldie
Sep 16 - 9PM (Reply to #11)
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

I`m glad you find this

I`m glad you find this useful, I had a brainstorming the other night! There are similar symptoms and behaviours that many of us involved with Narcisists, keep repeating and repeating, and it`s good for our health, to identify the reasons, before embarking in a new "relationship trip" with another Toxic one. I believe it can be useful even to people who didn`t come from this type of background family, and got poisoned by a Narc. Because this way, they can understand their own behaviour, and heal faster. For me, I noticed I have a pattern of choosing and falling for Narcisistic Toxic Men. I tried to understand the reasons why, because it can be exhausting if a person does this again, and again, for her whole life. You practically destroy yourself. They say also Narcisists do well with Masochists, Co-dependents. Why? Because they are masochist themselfs on a level, and second, because these types of people TAKE pain. Lots. But please ask yourself, whoever doubts and thinks to going back contacting the Narc, IS THIS A WAY OF LIVING? HOW MUCH CAN YOU TAKE IT THIS WAY? AND FOR GOD`S SAKE, WHY? We are not on this Earth only to suffer. That is one of the reasons why we need to look within, and board on a journey of self discovery, and discover happiness and beauty in ourselfs. Because many of us, co-dependents or not, were forced to MATURE too fast, too soon. When other kids were let to be what they were: KIDS, we were screwed and blamed, and made to be puppets, mirrors for another`s eyes and expectations. And PUNISHED. I always felt like the adult with my parents. They came to me, asking for HELP. I NEEDED help too! I had NEEDS too. A Narcisist views their children as personal mirrors, ways of "what can you give me this time?". Conditioned love. If you take a better mark at school, Mommy gives you a kiss. Or maybe NOT. It was never good enough. This sets the "field" for the future Narc relationships. Thank you for your reply, Goldie. I would love to participate in some meetings about co-dependence, and also to "children of Narcisist" meetings, if they exist! If not, maybe if we survive this experience, we can put the base of such meeting gatherings, like A-Anonymous. It could save lives! I`m only kidding with myself tonight :-) but who knows.
Sep 16 - 8AM
58 and going strong
58 and going strong's picture

GG, you are a very wise

GG, you are a very wise person, and I thank you for all the reminders.
Sep 16 - 8AM
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Wow Great Post

I have been on this site a long time. I am a raging codependent. This topic has come up on here many many times and I have taken a rash of shit about it from thats the victim getting blamed to Codependency is not a real condition. I say BS to that. It is a very real condition and it can be very destructive. Not everyone on here is codependent but many are. When you begin to read about codpendency you know if the symptoms and behaviors fit you. You just do. While I am not codpendent in every single relationship I am in many. I have even had a codependent relationship with my boss. I am a pleaser and I always do more than my fair share. If I am brutally honest I do it to maintain myself worth and to gain power. I feel much more secure when I know that my boss cant live without me. My therapist has told me that I am very codependent but it is not a life sentence. I just need to slowly begin to change some of my behaviors. Recognizing when you are engaging in codependent behavior is half the battle. Also knowing cognitively that this person is not the key to your happiness even if you dont feel internally yet is key. Let me just say I didnt realize this until recently SNOOPING IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO. You think whats the big deal as long as you stay NC? Well the big deal is that its an addictive behavior that you indulge yourself in to keep you connected to your drug. While it is not a full on hit of your drug like seeing him is, Its a small hit to keep you from experiencing full on withdrawl symptoms. Like I said it keeps you connected like an umbilical cord. Its the same as "using" So glad to see you post this. This is a very real condition for many on this board. If you are a a codependent and you tangle up with a Narcissist or a Psychopath you have some serious dysfunction going on within the relationship much more than that of a Narc and a Non codependent. The Codependent will always be the Narcs first pick. Narcs also will drawn to those with Borderline Personality Disorder. There are some that believe that BPD is an extreme and more toxic for of Codependency. I know many times I have felt like I had BPD but my therapist has assured me that I do not. What she did tell me is that I have some serious codependency issues and that the sociopath has made them worse. You are half way there recognizing this about yourself. Try as hard as you can not to snoop. You have to want to get better more than you want that fix. For me snooping was a way for me to "emotionally cut myself" and to stay connected to him. This a result of addiction.
Sep 16 - 10PM (Reply to #4)
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

BPD, yes! But it`s confusing,

BPD, yes! But it`s confusing, because some healthy people will experience Borderline behaviour as a REACTION of being in contact with the Narcisist himself! I noticed that to so called healthy people. And to myself! The Narcisist makes you create Your False Self, exactly like him. We musn`t let this happen. Every time we choose to let ourselfs be hurt, be wounded, we give him Power over us. And the cycle of addiction begins again, like a compulsion. And then the Shame, and then the self hate, and we hurt ourselfs again. It`s exhausting! And so not worth it! It`s so hard to care about yourself, and to GIVE LOVE, when all you received was kicks. But it`s not impossible. Let`s be the PROOF of that! Peace and blessings, GG
Sep 17 - 3PM (Reply to #5)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Codependents and Narcs are

Codependents and Narcs are drawn to eachother. Why? because both suffer from Core Woundedness. Just as Narcs were either abused or over doted on or neglected, Codenpendcy can manifest for a number of reasons. Sometimes the result of substance abuse in the family. Sometimes abuse. Sometimes perfectionism. Sometimes from low self esteem. In my case my parents were "Good" Parents but I think they controlled me too much along with some issues with my Mom. Both Narcs and Codependents are core wounded however it has manifest differently in each with the Narcs being far more toxic. In any case these two types are magnets to eachother because they recognize themselves in each other. On a sub conscious level on wounded person recognizes another and it feels comfortable and familiar. Plus many times the behaviors the come out of the dysfunction remind the codependent of the dynamic they may have had with a parent. Narcs usually resurface at one time or another in life however they are much more like to hoover a codependent as they are a rich source of supply for the Narc. Codependents are Grade A supply to a Narc. Glad to see this positive thread as I said I posted about codenpendcy many times on here and it was not viewed favorable. People seem to think it has some huge negative connotation. I dont. To me its just a person that gives until it hurts in effort to avoid abandonment. A set of unhealthy behaviors which are a little different for each codependent. For me I have only had one toxic romantic relationship but I am a habitual people pleaser. I am always seeking atttention and approval. I focus on being the best at something and when I think about it I do try to get people dependent on me because if they are dependent on me they will never leave. I have had completely codependent relationships with a couple of my bosses. Every codependents spefic behaviors will vary from person to person just as one narc may be a little different than the other but the end result is the same. This is why the Narc and the Codependent will feel like "home" to one another. Both fear abandonment.
Sep 17 - 9PM (Reply to #6)
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

I was going to say the exact

I was going to say the exact same thing, but you said it for me :-) That is why it is so hard to distance yourself in these dynamic types of relationships, because of these feelings "like HOME". You finnaly found a home, how can you leave it? And that is why it is so hard to hate them, and see the Narcisists for what they really are. How many times haven`t we heard "But I feel so much like HOME with him!". And that is true, the same thing happened to me. And so the Dance of the Wounded Souls begins. Push and pull. Push and pull. And with each spinning and abandonment, another layer of pain is added. One word: CRAZYNESS. Put a Co-dependent and a Narcisist together, and first time, you`ll see intensity and heaven. Next time, you see them with broken ribs and bones! Walk away, save your life. Next time you feel like HOME like that again, RUN, RUN for your life!! lol It is easier for us to return to that thinking and self destructive behaviour. Changing into positive and healthy is harder, because it requires hard work and determination to heal from our part. The Journey is different for each and everyone of us, but there is Sun after the Storm, I know it :-)
Sep 18 - 10PM (Reply to #7)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Yes at times my relationship

Yes at times my relationship became physical (when we were younger) we would have a terrible fight pushing and shoving and 2 hours later would end up in bed together. He told me I made him crazy. When we reconnected, He said I was always so comfortable with you. A few weeks into our reconnection I began to cry and I said I want to come home. He said I want you to come home. He then said I see pictures of you with your family and I think to myself thats my family. There is an article about the Narcisst and Borderline Couple and it was titled "Havent we met before" You know when he met me one of the first things he said to me was "Havent we met before?"
Sep 19 - 3AM (Reply to #8)
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

Yes, I believe I read that

Yes, I believe I read that one too! One of the things I remember, if not from there, from another article, was that in these relationships dynamics, there are two wounded souls. I remember it made me emotional, because it said, these two types, a Codependent woman let`s say A, and a Narcisistic male B, are like Cinderella and the frog. The Cinderella wants to be loved as a Queen, as she never has been validated by her family. The Frog dreams to be a Prince, and wants to show and punish the world, for not recognising him as the Great Prince as he is.. Both fear abandonment, but react differently to it. At first it seems like heaven, doesn`t it? Two people who FINNALLY FOUND each other. Two people who fear loneliness and have nobody else in this world, FOUND each other. That`s the HOME feeling. And then hell bells ring. Because none of them loves himself or herself, they expect from the other to fulfill his/her needs and to carry them. When the other expects exactly the same. And they start to fight, and everything is destroied. For a relationship to hold, each individual has to be interdependent, and not addicted to his partner`s needs. For that, I believe each of them, has to love himself first. Which is indeed hard, when you haven`t received anything. But not impossible, let`s hope. :-)
Sep 16 - 6AM
Sea
Sea's picture

I am co dependent

I share alot of those feelings you mentioned. It took me a long time to finally get out. Alot of CD, self doubt, self pity, sadness n a v v big fear of not having him anymore in my life. No matter how disordered he is, I was afraid to lose him. I couldnt afford any professional therapy. I start to do meditation on my own. Clears my mind and gave me the strength of my mind power to control my actions ( first step is to physically restraint myself fr contacting him). I am still struggling but his ST is actually helping me to cope. It was a hard journey but i know there's a much much better life after this. So co dependent dont be disheartened. U can NC n leave him. U can do it!!
Sep 16 - 10PM (Reply to #2)
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

Thank you, Sea, it means a

Thank you, Sea, it means a lot. Talking about our problems, means a lot, having this PLACE to share and talk, is AMAZING. Is HOPE. I did meditation too, after he D&D me long time ago. The hardest fall of many. I took an overdose of pills. I had nowhere to fall, no one to catch me. Only meditation and God, saved me then. And my stubberness to survive, lol! That`s what they say in therapy about children of self absorbed parents. That when they experience pain, even outside of the family, in Life, they don`t have WHERE to fall. It`s a struggle, but one of my dreams, beyond surviving and kicking Narcisistic butts, is to help people coming from those backgroungs and from these abusive, toxic relationships, combining meditation, knowledge about this disorder, and the will power to survive. Light up the Darkness, like Bob Marley says!