Do all N's cheat?

61 posts / 0 new
Last post
Nov 9 - 12AM
58 and going strong
58 and going strong's picture

There is always a HIDDEN

There is always a HIDDEN AGENDA. Mine was as true as gold regarding other women. But after 20+ years I found out he is a pedophile, covering the true story by marrying me and molesting at least one of my 3 children from my 1st marriage and emotionally and psychologically abusing us all.
Dec 24 - 7PM (Reply to #30)
Redhead
Redhead's picture

Oh 58 and going strong..

I read your post & lost my breath. I am so very sorry.
Nov 9 - 11AM (Reply to #29)
5kdznme
5kdznme's picture

I'm sorry. :(

That is HORRIBLE. :(
Nov 9 - 12AM
empath
empath's picture

does it even matter if they cheat?

For all the many lovely dealbreaker qualities they exhibit, their inability to remain faithful ultimately doesn't matter. If you knew for sure that he absolutely didn't cheat, it still wouldn't make him a suitable healthy partner for you...there are way too many other red flags, cheating is just one of them. Since it is the one we attach the most significance to, the one we take the most personally, we tend to focus on it. Infidelity is more a symptom of a much bigger problem...and with a N, we know that there are much bigger problems. Don't get hung up on taking their philandering personally...remember that NS is a commodity,and that they will never have enough. So many reasons for us to cut ties and run from the N...
Nov 9 - 6PM (Reply to #27)
empath
empath's picture

thanks!

After 6 years with a somatic N, who thought as long as I didn't know about his dalliances, it was "OK"...this is something I have to remind myself. Even if he were not out screwing everything that would hold still long enough, he still wouldn't even be close to "good enough" for me. Even when they don't flaunt their unfaithfulness in your face, your intuition tells you. They slip...they smokescreen, overcompensate, etc. You know when they are with OW. I always chose to ignore it because I didn't want to have to own knowing something about him that , once revealed, would force me to have to choose between him or my dignity. It was awful to keep what I knew inside of me, and I never let him know that I know. Even when I left and even through the hovering, OW has over come up...because it is irrelevant. The N was emotionally abusive to me, and what form that took matters not. The ST alone would have been reason enough to kick his ass to the curb, along with the lack of empathy, emotional shallowness, immaturity, passive aggressive behaviors, etc. The lack of ability to keep his pants on was just one item on a loooong list, and I have learned not to attach much significance to it or take it personally...I believe it is hardwired into who they are, if they are a somatic N...and none of the OW were any better or worse than me, they were just available supply. The N I was with draws his self-esteem from playing the romantic hero to women whose needs are not being met. His identity is totally invested in that image of himself. And I don't want to be a supporting role in his soap opera, I don't want to exist only in the pages of a romance novel. He is not able or willing to be anything more than that to any woman in his life. When they don't fall into their role, he moves on. I pulled myself out of my role. Still not sure how I found the strength to do it, just know that I am grateful to the bottom of my soul that I did. A sex addict does not get better they only get worse, and they have no concept of how their behavior affects others. He thinks he was awesome and loving to me, and doesn't know that I am aware that he was awesome and loving with OW too. As long as he was "meeting my needs" physically, what he did with anyone else was OK in his mind. The happy go lucky Cock Fairy, sprinkling oxytocin around wherever he goes...and he really truly needs to believe that he is just supremely sexy in order to keep up that sense of self worth. Very sad. I was supply...nothing more, nothing less. As meaningful as a toaster. And I was a very happy toaster, for a very long time. Until I woke up and realized that I was a toaster, and did not want to be a toaster any more. Imagine how sad it must be, to have your sense of self-esteem be conditioned upon your sexual prowess, and how frightening it must be for a man, as they get older...to combine that with a sex addiction, and the constant need to up your dosage...it seems a path that can only lead to a huge crash of self-loathing when that image in the mirror doesn't reflect back so beautifully any more. Short-term fun, long-term pain.
Nov 9 - 12AM (Reply to #26)
58 and going strong
58 and going strong's picture

If I could, I would give you

If I could, I would give you way more than 1 vote up!!! Great post!
Nov 8 - 11PM
emtg
emtg's picture

Not sure - cerebral narcs may be different

I believe that all N's are capable of cheating. Mine is cerebral and I honestly don't think he had gotten around to cheating in our two year relationship. I just think he prided himself in some sick way of sexual withholding and withdrawal as a form of punishment (mixed with lots of silent treatment) and jerked off constantly to porn. I think he preferred porn to sex actually. THen, when I would question if he was cheating or doing something since he didn't want to have sex with me, he would act all self-righteous. I have caught mine in a zillion lies and I just don't believe he did this yet - but who knows right? Anyway, I think it possibly depends on whether cerebral or somatic. From what I hear about somatic, I think they all do. But cerebral seems to be more into sexual withholding and porn as their weapon of choice. Regardless, what does it matter really? He is an N and clearly lies and isn't worthy of you in any way!
Nov 9 - 7AM (Reply to #19)
michelle18
michelle18's picture

to emtg

thinks my N was cerebral as well...just ask him he had the answer to everything! Dare claim you had an answer, well he"...had almost minor in (fill in the topic) in that in college) so he KNOWS what he's saying is right"..and what you're saying is NOT. He was TOTALLY into silent treatment. was 100% aware he did it but claimed he had an issue with withdrawing due to stress and was :working on it" After 4 years he was worse, not better. And sexual witholding. I called him the 2x per month guy, to his face. Any normal man would be floored by being accused of a low labido. Not this one. I was never sure if it was the anti-depressants or part of the game. HOW DO WE tell if they are abusive or an N, if they wont go to get diagnosed?
Nov 9 - 5PM (Reply to #20)
emtg
emtg's picture

michelle18

Ah - yes, of course. The "antidepressant" excuse for the 2x a month sex. I'm right there with you. He was on cymbalta and blamed it for everything. Does cymbalta make you be an asshole and withdraw? nope. Have you ever tried to explain to friends or other guys what you mean by not getting enough sex or sexual withholding? They literally don't understand what you mean. Why? because they are normal. I threw out lingerie because it just made me feel bad remembering all the times I tried to pathetically entice him into sleeping with me only to be rejected and told I was trying to manipulate him. Then of course, I would cry or be upset and he would respond with the silent treatment and more withholding. ANd tell me he was withholding because it wouldn't "be real" to be with me when he was so upset by my reaction and "If I didn't get sex on my time frame I just lashed out." And then - he told me that he was too stressed and trying to fix it and to just give him a chance. And as you said, it only gets worse. Now - to answer your question about whether or not you can ever really tell. I went through a two month period where I read everything there was about this and talked to other people on this site. And it all matched up. my life and experiences and insanity all matched up. I relate to everything you said because it is the same thing that happened to me. I know that you understand the unbelievable pain that comes with the silent treatment more than any of my closest friends and family and we have never met. Also - was porn a component? I always found it such bullshit that he would say his libido was low due to antidepressants and then jerk off constantly. However, think about how miserable you are (or were? not sure where you are in this process). Does it really matter if they are clinically this? I know it makes us feel better to think they have the full diagnosis, but he likely does and either way, he acts as if he does right? He engages in abusive behavior - silent treatment, sexual withholding. And does he care how this affects you? nope. does his pain trigger an empathic reaction? Or does he dig his heels in deeper to grind you to the ground when he sees your pain. This is abusive and not something that can be fixed, especially if he won't even get help. And trust me, as I've gone the therapy route, therapy with an N can be very very damaging. It nearly destroyed me. They are master manipulaters and no good decent therapist will diagnosis someone with a personality disorder without multiple intensive visits.
Feb 26 - 3PM (Reply to #24)
ggbabi45
ggbabi45's picture

OMG you too??? I got the

OMG you too??? I got the antidepressant excuse too!! Even though it IS legitimate I can link that to many many other signs of Narcissists and realize that is what he is... I began to feel very unattractive and think I was doing something wrong to make him less attracte to me..after 2 months he barely wanted to touch me...I noticed when we got into an argument after that it started when at the beginning it was all the time...weird...at least I know it wasn't me!!
Nov 9 - 9PM (Reply to #21)
michelle18
michelle18's picture

thank you emtg

I still new and in the process, maybe step 2 at best. having a setback sort of day. Why does it matter b/c Im desperately trying to convince myself to give up hope that it will get better. That if he is bi-polar like is mom believes, he can get help and level out. He had agreed to counseling but never did it then we broke up (again). I am not trying to fix him but hope that he doesnt end up on the streets b/c of his off the wall behavior because I wouldnt want to see that happen to anyone. I want to believe that he is an incurable N and not someone whoe needs meds and therapy. But I don bi-polars dont necessarily stay on their med plan for life. I grew up will well grounded friends and family. Ive never dealt with someone like this before, ever. I worked on an ambulance service for 10+ years. I know this makes my empathy score pretty high and thats why I was a good fit for him! So im still in the pain phase, Im NC but have not tossed out all the photos and such yet, just not ready. Im working on writing my story and letters. Just the thought of them puts me in tears And NO, I dont want to live like this anymore. Ive wasted 4 years of my life misunderstanding someone who did not deserve my kindness! Thanks emtg Your posts is truly awesome!
Nov 10 - 9AM (Reply to #22)
emtg
emtg's picture

You are doing great michelle18

I understand exactly how you feel. Wanting to be 100% sure that it will never get better no matter what you do and they are somehow incurable. You sound like an incredibly compassionate and empathetic person which I'm sure is one of the reasons he was able to secure your love - despite not deserving of it. It is likely against everything you know and feel to give up on someone you love. But think of it this way. You are not giving up on him. You are choosing yourself. You are choosing to have compassions for yourself and love for yourself as well as the world, friends and family. Would you want your best friend in this type of relationship? I am trying to learn what I think is necessary to resolve the intense pain and cognitive dissonance that comes from loving a narc. I'm nowhere there or all better, but accepting that you can still have compassion and feelings for them while not handing over your soul to be crushed are both possible at the same time. I am a lawyer and have empathy for people who do pretty horrible things all the time. I defend them in court but I wouldn't hand them my children. You said you work in an ambulance. So you've seen quite a lot. I'm just trying to say that you help sick people all the time - if a wife-beater came in after a fight and you learned all about his abusive childhood and that he needed meds and that he felt horrible about it, you would talk to him and want him to get help right? But that' doesn't mean you would set him up with your best friend. Even if your guy got help, it would be an extremely long course of which you would dedicate your life trying to live with a sick person and trying to like (not just love) the person you are with. You would be giving up your life to save this persons. I think you are doing great and keep knowing that you should be with someone who deserves all you have to offer!
Nov 10 - 10AM (Reply to #23)
michelle18
michelle18's picture

thanks again emtg

Now combine my years of EMS work with the Engineering education & career you get someone with compassion who needs a logical explanation in order to understand it all! Tough or impossible to obtain when you are dealing with a "scrambled egg" of a human. You're right. You can have empathy from a huge distance! Best wished for happy holidays!! M
Nov 8 - 11PM (Reply to #16)
5kdznme
5kdznme's picture

Lying

Always a problem - used to be a lot worse but over 12yrs I've learned to read him like a book so while it's still there, it's obvious and minor stuff. Porn definitely was an issue for a long time. I banished it from our marriage and our home - he never partakes anymore anywhere near me - knows better now that it will only bring out the bull and he will have a big headache. I'm sure he has resumed now that he lives on his own, and I could care less. Didn't know there were different types of narcs.. hm.. guessing I have a cerebral one too... ??
Nov 8 - 11PM (Reply to #17)
emtg
emtg's picture

Cerebral/somatic

There are different types but I think more are somatic. Here is an description from Sam Vaknin about the two types. http://samvak.tripod.com/journal21.html It seems like cerebral narcs engage in sexless monogamous relationships designed to frustrate their partner while doing what they do best - fucking/loving themselves (porn). I just didn't think he was cheating because he never looked decent when he was going out and because he seemed to use his lack of cheating as justification for hating me and punishing me more when I got angry about his lack of sexual and physical attention to me. So I would accuse him of cheating and he would almost knowingly smile, and say I was crazy. I"m confused -are you still with this guy?
Nov 9 - 12AM (Reply to #18)
5kdznme
5kdznme's picture

Agreed...

I think I must have one of those.. my drive has always been higher than his and I've been frustrated for years. I am still legally married to him although for the first time ever I've announced to my family and friends (and publically) that we are not together - before I would just deal with our issues in private. We have been separated since the end of August (he moved out, got his own place close to his work; about an hour away). Nothing new - we've separated for at least 4 months out of every year, usually in the winter, for our entire marriage. He's only had his own place one other time before for six months, otherwise lived out of hotels, his car. He's been out at my request at all times, except for this time when he seemed to have a place lined up awfully quick even at the suggestion so I'm assuming he was ready to go. Funny, it came only a month after a "big epiphany" of his that he knew what he needed to do to avoid my divorcing him - I rolled my eyes and said sure, let's see what you got. He lasted a month.
Nov 8 - 10PM
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

Yes! They all do! I don't

Yes! They all do! I don't need to read any more of your post to be able to answer your question,.....unfortunately, it does not make it any easier........ Don't look in your rearview............never look back, only look forward...........you will be fine.
Nov 8 - 11PM (Reply to #14)
5kdznme
5kdznme's picture

Well then..

I guess I'm just going to have to polygraph him then. And like an idiot, he'll probably do it. And once I get the answer I want I can then move forward with divorcing his ass. And then I will find someone awesome.
Nov 8 - 9PM
Victim-no-more
Victim-no-more's picture

I dont think my first N

I dont think my first N cheated, but my best friend later told me he tried to hit on her and she said she knew exactly what he wanted....to cheat. I was shocked. She waited years to tell me, she said she knew it would kill me....every other N I've known have all cheated. All of em.
Nov 8 - 9PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Do they cheat? They need

Do they cheat? They need constant supply.. They get bored, What they do is because of the disorder.. Its all game .. Mine didn't appear to be cheating but the more I learn, Im sure he was lying.. They can not stand to be alone and need constant attention.. They must work this with many contacts so their supply doesn't run out.. You are putting the human into these creatures.. Don't!! They are predictable robots.. We know silence drives them nuts.. sooo ..They must keep the business in motion.. Its one big operation… Hunter
Nov 9 - 2PM (Reply to #8)
into the light
into the light's picture

Mine cheated

I caught him out because he was stupid enough to leave his facebook account open on my computer. I'd never even been on facebook before but when he did a disappearing act, I typed in 'Liar and cheat' and soon all the light bulbs went on. All his pathetic trawling of women and his different personas became clear. And then popped up online chats - I didn't even know about how these worked, but before I closed down his account I had all the proof I needed. To see the idealising of the OW in action - a revelation. I didn't say anything, but he was D&Ding me anyway. I made him come and pick up his stuff - I told him I didn't trust him, and he began his ridiculous lies. I faced him with what I had read, demolishing each lie. Sure he hated me for that, and when I told him he had left his account open he tried the pity appeal, how he had been dumped years ago. Yes, making it all about him, as always. What is awful is that I still craved him and I went through 3 months of anguish. But now, thank God, the anger is beginning to grow, and I welcome it. He is a piece of worthless shit. As are all of them. I think cheating is in their dark, selfish nature.
Nov 9 - 3PM (Reply to #11)
Done sourcing
Done sourcing's picture

Cheating is actually an

Cheating is actually an avoidance behavior. People cheat to avoid the real issue. The issues can be very different, but the behavior is an avoidance of some other reality that the person is unwilling to see or maybe just not ready to see. It is hard not to take it personal when you are the one being cheated on, but it isn't truly about you at all. The judging game doesn't work for me anymore, as we all have our issues and conflicts. I can't cast the first stone. I am grateful that I have the tools, resources, and especially God to help sort all of this shit out!!! That doesn't mean this shit doesn't hurt like hell, because it does. ds
Nov 9 - 2PM (Reply to #9)
Used
Used's picture

intothe light

He left it open on purpose, as you say he was d/d anyway, he left the DIRTY WORK TO YOU....SCUMBAGS OR WHAT?
Nov 9 - 3PM (Reply to #10)
into the light
into the light's picture

Used, yes I've thought it

Used, yes I've thought it through that he did it on purpose, but I don't think he did. He hated that I knew stuff he didn't think I knew. He is very high-functioning, and didn't like me 'winning' by calling him out on his lies. But I saw him one more time after that when he put on a sensitive good guy act and nearly fooled me again into doubting that he was truly a psychopath. But he is.
Nov 8 - 9PM (Reply to #2)
michelle18
michelle18's picture

silence

So weird that silence kills THEM. one of the popular games/punishments Ive read many Ns play is giving you the silent treatment. That was the weapon of choice for my XN for sure! His mom did it too and still does. "I wont communicate my displeasure to you like an adult, just not talk to you for a week or so"
Nov 8 - 10PM (Reply to #5)
enough for me
enough for me's picture

silent treatment oh yes mine

silent treatment oh yes mine would get mad and take off for a night or two and not let me know where he was, refused to answer text or phone calls very cruel. One time dropped me off at our house after my chemo treatment and took off for 2 days because I gave him grief that day while I was getting chemo about not being at home the night before. he would never stay at home the night before chemo treatment always went to band practice stayed out drinking. then. would have a friend over the night i had chemo because i could only lie in bed. he actually told me to go F myself one time during chemo treatment and walked out on me. I caught my sexting a couple of times when he was passed out i would look at his phone,begged me cried to let him stay after I told him it was over the last time I caught him, it was with my best friend!!!! Said to me do you want to see me dead, i cant live without you. he went to councelling for about 2 months then refused to go anymore and put a lock on his phone so i couldt check what he was up to and told me that my lack of trust would ruin us....and I beleived this shit that it was my problem to get over...god I was a fool
Nov 8 - 10PM (Reply to #6)
enough for me
enough for me's picture

PS

am pretty sure he also cheated physically just didnt actually catch him in the act but his need to have every wonman want him makes me pretty sure at some point this happened
Nov 9 - 8AM (Reply to #7)
Hermes
Hermes's picture

Ingeneral

I think it is important to say that all men (and women) are CAPABLE of cheating, and this is not just an N thing. One can look up statistics and the percentages are pretty high. L. The reasons why people do so are manifold. Getting back to the Ns, and someone asked how do we tell if they are abusive or an N. Well, abuse encompasses many behaviours, not just physical abuse, it also includes silent treatment, emotional absence verbal abuse, etc. So, the person is either abusive or s/he is not. Perhaps the questions means how to tell in advance, at the outset, if the person is an abuser/an N. That's another story. I put up a link on another thread, worth having a look at it, mentioning an article by Dr. Joe Carver, see his site www.drjoecarver.com and click on "articles" on the menu (The Loser). Lots of pointers and warnings in that excellent article. However, as another poster said, what does it matter whether the N "cheats". S/he is an abuser, and not to be tolerated at all. Hermes
Nov 8 - 9PM (Reply to #3)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Michelle18

Good name BTW!! Google the SIlent Treatment.. Its Abuse.. They know their victim so well form the Idealization stage that the punishment fits the victim … They choice what will hurt the most and Roll with it.. I have the ST .. Its the only way he can fight me.. I will not listen to his BS.. Its been so long now he wouldn't dare try to toss a crumb.. This supply source is not biting.. On to the next sucker.. UGH!! Hunter
Nov 9 - 8AM (Reply to #4)
michelle18
michelle18's picture

thanks Hunter

The silent treatment is awful and not something I can live with. Definitely abuse! I learned to deal with a bit better but deep down it took me emotionally away from the ones who matter most, my 3 kids. Im am so hoping I have found enough strength from this blog so we can have a nice holiday season that isn't overshadowed by hoovering (again!). Im only free by 1 month so far -Michelle