I say AMEN to that WakingUP, AMEN! I could not have said this better myself.
I may have a fundraising event for people with NPDs because it is a sad life you can't help but be compassionate, they need to be cured for themselves and for their families. problem is nobody will attend because THEY WON"T ADMIT THEY HAVE A PROBLEM!!
As you can see, my posts are getting shorter, my defenses are up and im resorting to sarcasm. The jerk broke my heart into pieces and there is nothing in this world anybody can do to change that.
The ex-Psych prof had an emotional affair with me... while he had an LDR girlfriend in LA. He talked about going to LA to "meet a friend"... not saying it was with her. I was mortified when I met her. I felt bad... FOR HER. I had been publicly rejected&humiliated... but she was the one being cheated on. I am SO GLAD I didn't get romantic or sexual with the ex-P.
Ns/Ps aren't just unfaithful in the sexual sense. It's that way when it comes to emotional affairs. The ex-P saw me as a source of adulation&encouragement... tho I never had sex with him, nor did I support him financially.
Ns/Ps tend to like flaunt their infidelity. The ex-P idolized Leo Tolstoy, who kept a female serf (and the son he had with her) on his estate ON PURPOSE to create drama... he even wrote in his diaries (that Sofia read) that he was still enamored of her. Sofia was jealous of this female serf even when they were well into old age. Sofia accused Leo of having affairs with a male disciple as well as a Russian Orthodox priest... but he gave her reasons to be jealous.
The infidelity isn't just sex.
You know what, I know this is screwed up but when I was with him, I actually could look past the physical - if he had a one night stand and didn't tell me about it and found out a year later, I would not have been bothered, it would have been much better to forgive than emotional cheating. When someone gets involved with you emotionally, to me that was more cheating than one night stands.
I was finding ways to get the relationship going and would have looked the other way if he had one night stands... but actually in reality that is more dangerous because of the STDs and what if he caught HIV and passed it on to me???
Susan, hypotherically, if I was with the your ex-psych prof's GF and you were the one he was calling for emotional support, you will be my nightmare, I will be anxious of these calls. And here you are telling me, being on the other side was not as much fun and you were hurt too. I'm sorry for all of us.
But see that's just the thing...they AREN"T emotionally involved with the OW. I know, I WAS the OW!! They LOVE triangulation. It's all about THEM. They LOVE it when two women are fighting for him, even if they don't know about one another. This is a critical point to remember. Cluster B's DO NOT get emotionally involved!!!!! My affair with my ex lasted almost ten years. You'd say that was emotionally involved right? WRONG! He was NOT emotionally invested in me OR his now ex wife (now divorced and raced wife 3 to the altar for money), and now his THIRD wife either. It's all game to them. Please don't attribute HUMAN EMOTION that WE might feel to a Cluster B. It's so self defeating! A one night stand is JUST AS VALUABLE as a long term affair to a Cluster B, which is NADA!
OH how he LOVES this!
Once again, its a control thing. For awhile, Assclown even had QUADRANGULATION going. It was me, his wife, and his GF. (and I've never even been romantically involved with him! Only friends/colleagues.)Looking back, I can see how he'd be able to manipulate me into allowing myself to be put in the middle. His GF is now my replacement... during the final d&d, he told me I was really being "lame" bc according to him the issue was that I was just jealous of the GF.
In actuality, I was hurt that I was being ignored. Who wouldn't be? The GF can HAVE the Assclown. Really?!? Ew.
But MAN, I'm sure he LOVED all the DRAMA... the thing of it is, its going to get harder and harder for him to "get his jollies" since in order to top that he'll need PENTAGULATION.
Is that even a word??? LOL
Sunafterrain, thank you for this honest revelation
Sunafterrain, many Thanks posting you honest revelation on how things stand for the OW. It eased my pain a very minute but significant way. I had continuously been so saddened because I never received the idealisation the Ow(s) always got/get...and here I was the one who took all his deranged emotional beatings and kept house for him and took his name after marriage ( U-G-H) and devotedly brought up our kid... and all I received was this treachery.
It is heartening that at some point all of us victims begin to stop wondering how-why-when things went wrong... end game. stop. the blaming-crying-fighting-arguing-.... only HARMS US and gives THEM AN ULTIMATE HIGH.
Sunafterrain, i am feeling so saddened to know about your pain. the very least i can offer now to you is my affectionate prayers for your healing.
HUGS
freaked
Thanks, but ya know what? The point I was trying to make is that to an N, it doesn't matter. It's just going from one object to another. If they can have two objects at the same time, it helps to alleviate their boredom and increase their destruction. Now they're screwing up TWO lives. What this does is increase his perception of power. That's all. It means nothing to him. This is why the victims are really just a bunch of faces in his sea of destruction. He could care less. It's those of us with feeling that blame one another in a triangulation situation and N's LOVE IT when the wife/gf and OW find out about each other. He LOVES it. And of course, through the jealousy, he escapes blame and simply moves on or rearranges the chess pieces.
My exN used to get depressed. He cried like a baby when I could not continue on with the relationship, he smiles at me and our daughter when we were together and he looked happy. What a show.... he sure got me there. Now I'm suffering the pain of his loss or the loss of an actor who I thought loved me too....
Thanks for sharing about your experience as the OW and I'm sorry too for you that your ex put you through that. When an OW is involved in a break up, the pain of losing someone (or fake someone) goes to another level and it changes the way you think of men or love....
That was a show hun. A performance for you. Nothing more. I didn't write my post to you because I'm the OW, I wrote my post to you to show you that it doesn't MATTER to the N what you are, wife, daughter, OW, GF, one night stand. It's all the same to him because there are NEVER emotions involved. EVERYONE is supply. WIthout conscience, they can bulldoze through ANYONE'S lives and make it a living hell. I wanted you to know that the OW may LOOK like she's got it better, but you also need to remember that if she is capable of feeling, she is YOU and where you were when you first men your N. He will do the same crap to her, that he did to you. He will also use her to get to you. Don't let it happen. Don't believe his one man show. It's an illusion. Oh and how could he do this? Because he can. Because he's an N. And his leaving should show you just how important anyone is to him. It's all about him. No one else.
The OW in my case contacted me while the N and I were still together. She continous to show herself to deliberately hurt me. She was contacting me via skype and told my ex it was me who was contacting her and played the poor her story. She wrote me demeaning emails telling me that myEXn does not love me blah blah.. she intended to hurt me. My exN knew about this and he knew I was hurt.. I kept on with the relationship and tried my best to keep it together.. though he refused to give her up. To further the insult and disrespect now they live together. The reason why I ask this question is it was horrendous experience, the betrayal was inconceivable to me. then he proudly says she stole him from me..and that he did this because he fell for her..Can you believe it? And to my poor daughter who was not even considered when the N father did this was just unbelievable.
I have decided to not wish them ill anymore but hopefully soon I can let it all go. I want to be compassionate to her as all of you say she will experience the same thing but she is the same evil to me as he was to me. I hope none of the OWs here has done this, it is painful to me and especially to my daughter.
Well, honey, you won't be happy with me then!
I didn't do to my ex's ex wife what your ex's GF did, but I did try to talk to her about him and what he was doing, even while I was not prepared to leave him, thinking I was, nope, still sucked in. Just like you were. Just like SHE is. you see, he's lying some big fat juicy, ice pop lies. he's smearing you and what he said about her having caught him, for GOD"S SAKE, can you imagine how that gave him the high of his LIFE? He did that on purpose to hurt you. Maybe the OW is herself a disordered woman. But we can't assume that. you already know how easy it is to believe their lies or at least want too once you don't anymore. Each reaction you give him or her, gives HIM a high. HE is the one, NOT HER, that is doing this to you. try to remember this, One, each reaction you give them, makes HER feel more bonded to him. He is traumatizing her, falsely bonding her to him, through his machinations about you, lies, manipulations. She is trauma bonded to this man already and we all know how quickly that can happen, don't we? That's what it's all about for a pathological, the sooner the better. I wonder if you can think of ways to be totally boring to him and to her. Don't speak to her at all. She will suffer the same fate eventually and it's NOT her fault, it is TOTALLY his. He could have worked your relationship, particularly with a child involved, instead, he decided it would be more FUN to suck you both into a game. NO REACTION. BE BORING, TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY BORING!!! Just stick to what you have to do with the child. That's all. When he picks the child up or you have to see him, YAWN...........BE BORING! Even when you feel like dying inside. Do it. He'll be pissed that he's not getting a reaction and it might get icky for awhile, but you're strong and you can do it. You have the ability to save your own sanity, One. So do it.
You are here, helping and being compassionate to people like me... how will I not be happy with you?? Im thankful you are here and appreciate your advise, I do not think you are like this OW at all, your intention when you contact the wife of the gf is what makes the difference.
I am having a tough time NOT reacting and showing my anger. I need to work on that because I know that every little thing they can use to bond over me they will. He probably tell her what an awful woman I am and they feed on this. I understand that he manipulated her and made her belive lies about me, I'm sure of that, but I don't totally relieve her of how she hurt me. She didn't write me to warn me or get to know me, she wrote me to put me down. I don't belive that all OWs are like that and I also believe that most of you here are just victims too trying to make sense of what is happening. But this OW acted intentionally to hurt me with time to think about what she was doing - that she did on her own, they are a match made in heaven.
I don't care anymore, they can have their fun. They can get all the glory whatever. I thank them for they gave me back my freedom, I am now free to look for a better partner for me and a responsible father for my daughter.
Honestly...she probably did everything at the prompting of the N. She is just another victim. You have to remember that. The N is always at the center of all triangulation attempts. I never contacted any of the Ns gf which I think is why Mr. N kept me for so long.
The ex-Psych prof didn't call me for emotional support, but he did like it when I called him. It meant he could be lazy. However, he would crank call me (calling&hanging up)... this lasted into my senior year, because he did not have my number. Right after the final D&D, he was BEGGING me for my phone number... I promised to give it, promised promised promised, NEVER followed through. During the final D&D, he spoke hypothetically of calling me at midnight... he probably did that to the girlfriend, and that would explain the late night crank calls.
He'd come to me for support in person... we went out to lunch together.
The sad thing was... he NEVER told me he already had a girlfriend. When I met her, I felt horrible for her.
He'd always talk to me about how he felt;how his colleagues didn't appreciate him, how he had "stupid" students. He shared A LOT of his feelings with me. He'd tell me about his parents coming from Massachusetts to visit him.
What's more twisted is that the ex-P's girlfriend MIGHT have known about me... and MIGHT have approved of how he treated me. I don't know if she were Narc or normal. I won't judge because I don't know.
I was one of the OW with my N. I am married so he had nothing to lose to share so much with me. I am Long Distance so I realize now, too, that I was more of a "counselor, listener, admirer, always there" entity for him than I was anything else.
Anyway, for the 5 months we talked/communicated, this is what I learned (ready for the list and I'm sure it's not all): He told he was unfaithful during his 25 year marriage (divorced 1 year when we connected). He said he thought he connected well with a woman with a small child that he dated while he was still married but she went back to her husband.
He currently had a girlfriend he met through work travel (long distance relationship). He took her to a family wedding even.
He had a girlfriend in his hometown that broke up with him at work. She must have been pretty mad as he called me to "console him" although he was almost laughing at how angry she had been. He said "and I thought this was going somewhere" ??
He said he slept with a woman on a first date and blew her off for dates 2 and 3 supposedly planned at date 1. She was pissed at him.
He started next girlfriend about 3 weeks prior to local work girlfriend breakup.
He also was starting a new relationship on work travel for the times that he didn't see long distance girlfriend.
Sounding crazy? Then I was a married woman he was calling, texting as well and planning Christmas rendezvous with.
I was one of about 5 that I know he was juggling (learned of a couple since N.C.) I do know that 2 of them have since left him abruptly. He just churns through women but I think he's so lost/so vacant without women, he has to continually seek to fill and keep the supply line full. It is scary to me how much time and energy he devotes to this.
I contacted the 2nd local girlfriend when I learned of breakup (not proud of it but did it...curiosity killed the cat) and she told me that the more she saw him, the more the red flags came. He did something evil to her and she saw his inner rage. She left him. He begged her to come back....all while he had at least 2 other women he was seeing seriously (my definition). She told him she'd call the police if he came back. (She helped me, as well, since she said he's charming LD but evil in person.)
It is crazy...and I'm so now realizing how he is a master manipulator...I have never known anyone like this. I saw the rage in him in person. Saw him 3 hours total in 5 months and it was enough data to know he's not right.
Hope this helps....
I'm getting chills as this sounds like my exN and I was the local girlfriend who broke up with him at work. He travels and I know he had other women, etc. Does he live in Mass? He is the epitomy of a master manipulator and I was with him for almost 2 years off and on. He is still trying to get me back but I was NC since April. I was always the one to break up with him because something wasn't right.
I cannot believe how manipulative these men are!! I am also the OW in my scenario, and yes...he told me that he was faithful to his wife and to me (never cheated on "us"). How weird is that? But what the hell, I believed him, and loved him. I mean, remember how great it is in the beginning? He told me he was uncomfortable at the thought of losing me..ever.
I was also long distance from my narc. He told me he loved his wife, but he always made her happy, she never made him happy - and I made him happy.
After some time went by and that honeymoon period started to go by...he would become distant with me, barely contacted me - only through a reply to me. He told me that he "wished" I could have a happy marriage like he/wife had - but that he wants to still be with me, he is being patient. That was when I found out he was juggling 2 other girlfriends, in addition to me and his wife.
HE IS NOT BEING FAITHFUL TO THE OW. Trust me. I know!
I knew this about him, but like many others i tried to ignore the red flags, and when I was ready to run - i found out I was pregnant. When it looked like I was now hooked to him, all the other stories started coming out - there was a girl he was "dating" but NOT a gf - she was only chasing him but he really did not want her. so I waited on it, after our relationship was over, I found out he slept with AT LEAST 4 women that I know of... while we were together.
I have to admit, in the end it was not as bad as when we started... the craziness was dying down - or maybe I just got tired of checking. That is why i was afraid maybe he had tranformed, in a way, his behaviour in cheating with me had lessened, still cheating nonetheless but not as vulgar.
That's why I wonder if maybe the quest for supply died down, now that the OW lives with him and maybe enough supply - admiration and full service. I know it doesn't matter but he tells me now his life is boring, so I guessed that meant no more conquest beside from the OW... SLAP SLAP on my face.
I'm sorry guys if I sound so insecure today.. if you only knew what kind of woman he lives with now, you'll probably say they deserve each other - two low lives staying together in perfect chaos.
Personally, I find your disclosures here very encouraging. I was the OW too. He gave me the impression that he was faithful to just me and his wife LOL! Wow, the stupid shit we will believe when in the psychopathic web. You're SO LUCKY it went no further and even more blessed to have had the guts to find out why his gf broke up with him. When mine was dating before he married rich lady, I'm sure he had many women he was juggling at once. Unbelievable.
This may be a little off topic of this post but one thing I keep reminding myself over all of this craziness (yes...even my short lived deal has turn me inside and out)...
He told me a couple of things that I do believe are true.
1. His wife divorced him as she no longer loved him.
2. At another time he said she left him as he couldn't give her what she needed. He never filled that in. (as usual...few details to leave your mind wandering)...but in this case...it was a good thing as I could fill in a whole lot of things. Mostly, though, I'm sure at it's most basic level he didn't give her love in return.
If he couldn't do this for the woman he was with 25+ years and had 2 children with, he is not going to be able to do this for anyone.
I am also focusing on the "blink of an eye" piece of his life that I did see was that he not only lures women in but they also go running for their life when they figure out who he really is.
I am glad he is not messing with my mind but i do think about all the memories and wonder if anything was real - it makes me very sad
I am way happier when I have a great support system and community connection in my other home (i live in 2 places) and obsess less when I am not here in this town with less friends and fun.
they are too immature to be good parents - they best you can hope for is that he spends time with your daughter...some don't even do that...
My exn's kids love him even tho he abandoned them - he tries now that they are older teenagers and he is alot of fun - they idolize him even tho he was not there for them
Mine came back a year later after abandoning me and flashing gross lady on FB. He said he had no GF and wanted to jump in bed with me.
If they can't be fatihful to their longterm GFs and wives - why would they even bother being faithful to new supply where there is even less attachment
They cheat for the attention and the feeding of ego and image - not for the sex -
Me and exN had a great sexual relationship, I have a good body and am no schlep - they just cheat to cheat for sport and to show off.
What you see is not what you get - he would never be behaving in a way to respect his new woman because they do not care about other's feelings - he probably avoids you our of guilt and being uncomfortable - they cannot face their bad behavior ever - they would rather hide and pretend it never happened
Thanks for this. You know he doesn't even look at me. And I can't even look at him I am disgusted. He plays house with the OW and here we are.. his ex and his child living the real world all by ourselves. His selfishness took him to a different level when he decided to take an OW to live with because he said he didn't want to be alone. BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS DAUGHTER??? What of her future?
Thank you for this post ifinallygotit...
literally I Finally Got It myself :D
I wish I could just stop even remembering that there is OW looming out there...I do have a lot of things to catch up on.. and all of them are creative pursuits.
I am JUST feeling so inspired by Freddie Mercury's song WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS, MY FRIEND....
My PRAYERS are with everyone here and let us toast to the Hope of finding tranquility ahead on our journey.
I am still deeply hurt that he went silent again even though I know there is no hope of a happy future - it messes with me and I am having a hard time getting my work done - I think about it too much and it wastes alot of time.
I think I will time myself so I don't spend too long on this site or writing him my feelings - I never send them, I just write (well I sent one ran when I had a concussion and he did not respond)
I thought about this too, but being on this site actually helped me through a lot of painful days. It is like an online therapy with many therapist graduated from the University of experience... It's people who has a wide range of perspective from their past or present and what they see in their future with a N relationship. Your response made me think... o yeah she is right. and just for that you made my day. Hopefully when you write your story and people here can help you through until you are totally NC and healed.
In case you leave soon, i just want to say thank you...
for the past year I have neglected work and responsibilities by spending too much time on the site - i needed to do that to survive but now I think I am avoiding my work and taxes.
My business suffered this year for first time in 10 years in part because I was so devastated and distracted...I need to be more balance now!
The ex-Psych prof didn't tell me he already had a serious girlfriend in LA. He KNEW I was in love with him, kept me around (thank goodness I didn't get romantically/sexually involved) I felt TERRIBLE for his girlfriend when I met her. I had fallen in love with her boyfriend over 4 years, and he NEVER acknowledged her existence.
I was FURIOUS at the ex-P (not at his girlfriend). I told him I would've acted appropriately (as in not declaring my love),if he had told me he already had a girlfriend.
He blamed me, saying "You put me in an awkward position" and "it shouldn't matter to you that I already have a girlfriend."
Of course, he threw a fit when I congratulated him on being engaged, whining that I had violated his oh-so-sacred privacy.
But really, WHO THE HELL CARES? I thought about it, then realized that I don't care what he does. He could become a priest, for all I care. I'm done. When I have thought or wonder about him I instantly remind myself that he was so terrible to me, my whole time with him was spent thinking about him, that now it's time to think about ME! Yay!!
So I'm hoping for you, that you can not even care if he's faithful to the OW or not. Imagine you with your new guy, being the faithful loving self that he is, and that he's loving you. Or better yet, imagine you taking better care of yourself than any other person could.
This is where I am working to stay. In the who cares about the psycho and I care tremendously for myself. Hope that helps.
Amen to that WakingUP
Not faithful TO ANYONE
Emotional Infidelity
Oneof...
Triangulation...
Sunafterrain, thank you for this honest revelation
freaked
Why cry? why smile? Why get depressed?
One of the exes
The OW
Oneoftheexes
Sun...
Honestly...she probably did
Well, he crank called me
So NOT faithful....
Naive46....OMG this sounds like my exN!!!
To Naive46..I read your story
I cannot believe how
Thank you for all the comments
WOW
More disclosures that might help....
I don't think about him and the women
NO he is not faithful to OW
I finally got it
Thank you for this post
you are helping me too freaked
Being on this site..
I won't leave but
Being the OW
You know, I've questioned the same thing.