"He is cursed mostly for his extreme fraud, and betrayal" but am I also cursed?

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#1 Feb 28 - 1PM
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

"He is cursed mostly for his extreme fraud, and betrayal" but am I also cursed?

"He is cursed mostly for his extreme fraud, and betrayal" but am I also cursed?

I ask myself and everyone on this board, will I ever be the same again? Let me recap at bit: I am not bitter, I do not seek revenge, I have severed it for all eternity, I do not care if he thrives, fails, lives or dies. Its only human that I would relish the thought of sitting him down and MAKING him listen to what he did to my life, but it would have no effect, it would not reach the dark deep void of humanity that he is lacking within.

Tonight driving home from work I went back in time to when I was so deeply in love with this man, I was at one time his NUMBER ONE VICTIM he worked so very hard to secure. I remember vividly in my mind my hopes, dreams, and life I was going to live with this man and for a fleeting moment I remembered in my heart what it felt like. It only caused me EXTREME PAIN, but then I also remembered he NEVER for one moment felt all the things I felt, and what a tragedy, what a shame he never will experience the love I did with anybody.

This is why they can move on with such ease and why we are left feeling we have lost everything we ever believed in. I KNOW I was a person of true worth and value, and he let me go in much the same way a pet dog that ran away. We KNOW its because of the deformity they suffer from and I know it hurts because I CAN love and I DID LOVE, I loved a fraud, I loved a psychopath, I loved a highly disturbed individual. I pray I am not cursed for eternity because of this experience, he took so much from me and I want it back.

Feb 28 - 4PM
Sergie41
Sergie41's picture

neverlookback

You are by no way cursed! Although the experience was as terrible as any can be, we've learned. We've had the opportunity through this pain and experience to genuinely find the best lives for ourselves in the future. More aware of the men around you. Aware of the disorders that infect people in life. And your knowledge through this horrible time, has made you ten times the woman you've every imagined you could be. Keep your head up. Know it gets better. I'm still very early in my healing process as well. But I see the light in the horizon! It's there for you and for me! You just have to keep moving forward! Do your best to keep yourself out of a stagnant state of thinking and sadness.
Feb 28 - 2PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I have to disagree and suggest another way to look at it...

I pray I am not cursed for eternity because of this experience, he took so much from me and I want it back. Let's go back to the "mirror" dynamic...if they are reflecting then they have nothing...they are empty shells ALWAYS... In order to take, that means a void has to have been filled? It was never filled for the entire relationship was a fascade and an illusion... THEREFORE...because they mirror - is it possible that in actuality the reciprocal reflection is us actually falling in love with those parts of ourselves that he is reflecting/feeding off of? If that is so, then phiilosphically at least but hard to OWN...they never did take anything away because we were BOTH parts of the relationship...which means we still OWN everything they got away with nothing...they still wander empty...
Mar 1 - 2PM (Reply to #13)
jen79
jen79's picture

Michelle

Yesterday night I had an insight. I asked myself why is god punishing me still with this fantasy of love, always presented by his face, that actually never really happened that way. I never saw this warmness and care in his eyes, and I never felt this special feeling when he embraced me, which he in reality didnt even like. So I pray, god, please take this away from me. And then I had an insight. I saw a big pulsating light in my mind, big and shiny and full of love, and and the edge of this light circle there were little dark circles, shallow and transparent laying over it. These little cycles are the narc, he is using a light that is laying beneath him, he pretends it is his light, but what I actually saw is, the real big shiny light, shining through HIM, but its not him, he is a shadow mask cycle, he is like the moon, pretending the light is his, when actually it comes from the sun. And then I got something else to see, I asked, ok if it is like that, mustnt at least some part of him feel this light when he is laying upon it? No, cause the shadow cycle that is using this big light behind him, is not laying on the light circle, he is actually laying meters above it, it just looked from my perspection like this. If you want to understand this 3D reality, we also have to think in 3 D. And then another inside came, this shadow above the light, the narc, is only like a transparent little manifested personification, of the dirt on my own lense, that is watching the light. they match each other perfectly, so its hard to see they arr two different things. All we have to do is, clean our lense, so we can see clearly, again. I know mine got me with vanity and lust, and despair for love. Its nothing wrong with it, no judgemnet here, we are human. Just being aware that this is your dirt on your lense, and that is your weak button, frauds like this will use against you. I hope all my description wasnt too cryptic. So what I wanna say with it, is, the love and the light, and all the fantasies, its coming from somewhere else. Its beyond that. And it might never leave us, and if it does, it feels like shit, doesnt it, cause its not supposed to leave us ever. Its where we all came from, and will return one day.
Mar 1 - 2PM (Reply to #14)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Does not sound too cryptic

I'm learning about "light" and "love" and the "universe"...we all have slightly different spins but it's not at all cryptic...it's how we "process" the bigger picture as individuals.
Mar 1 - 2PM (Reply to #15)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I said this somewhere else don't remember where

Yesterday night I had an insight. I asked myself why is god punishing me still with this fantasy of love. I think the key...what we as humans try to explain...that which is unexplainable absent tangible proof... The "universe" the "beginnings" "how we got here" "where we came from" "does the soul continue has the soul been here before?"...all of that. I've been reading AND the universal core of everything we believe on this planet with regard to "God" "Allah" religion whatever you are or practice...this "supreme" being or "energy" that started it all. That figure..."The Creator" and please note I respect all religions so am not trying to discount one's name for "The Creator" over another...the core bottom line of that energy is LOVE. Love is life...Love is light... WE cannot in our limited human conditon *if we believe in some form of "a CREATOR" cannot even come close to the level of "love" that represents...and thus it is the journey of the "soul" to attain that level of mastery and that is what will determine how many times we have to keep coming around to learn it, achieve it, master it so to speak... THEREFORE...I believe that this was on some level a *cosmic* lesson and *diploma* for our soul? Overcoming, learning how to forgive with grace, getting past venom, the hurt, the pain, all that comes with this ugliness will eventually if we strive to stay on the side of "good" and "light" will only serve to elevate us on our journey. Just examining how much more has come to light all around...this experience wasn't just about awareness in love but the energy of "good" and "evil?"...light vs. dark...sane vs. insanity...many polarites to note in this experience regardless of the "jargon" one identifies with...
Mar 1 - 2PM (Reply to #16)
jen79
jen79's picture

Michelle

I think so too, we experienced here in our little macro-cosmos some sort of good vs evil. I thought long about it. But I think the boddom line is, you can only CHOOSE light, if you have some perspective, if you have experienced it all. The good and the evil. You cannot really choose light, if you dont know what evil is. Then evil can come around, and you cannot even recognize it as such. Its only in the knowing of it, that you can consciously make a choice for or against it, or for the light or for the darkness. I think thats what they mean, when they say, overcome. Overcoming it, and despite of the darkness, making the choice of the only truth, which is love. For yourself, and for everyone else.
Mar 1 - 3PM (Reply to #17)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Yes...I agree

You cannot really choose light, if you dont know what evil is. Then evil can come around, and you cannot even recognize it as such. Its only in the knowing of it, that you can consciously make a choice for or against it, or for the light or for the darkness. I think thats what they mean, when they say, overcome. Overcoming it, and despite of the darkness, making the choice of the only truth, which is love. For yourself, and for everyone else.
Feb 28 - 4PM (Reply to #6)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

JUST HURTING

I am in a great deal of emotional pain this evening, not from the loss of letting him go but from the aftermath of what this experience did to me. Ya Michelle, the one “who has this down to a science” has a heart that broke in a million pieces just like that mirror can break huh? If I did indeed fall in love with myself it was pretty amazing!!!!! Too bad he couldn’t have shared it with me. Just having a rough night, Thanks everyone. X0x
Feb 28 - 5PM (Reply to #7)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I am very sorry you are having

A rough night...it will pass wish I could tell you when... Wish I knew exactly what to say to ease your pain... Sometimes pointing out things that we know are true can be equally painful... So, in the quiet and the stillness, know you are still supported and loved and none of this experience is any indication of your value, or worth... It was a bad experience but we can and do survive... And turn out all the better...it just takes time.
Feb 28 - 6PM (Reply to #8)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

Thank you Michelle

I pasted below an insert from mirroring. I have read in a sense it is as if you fall in love with yourself since they have no REAL self to give to a relationship, its such a Mind RAPE and F--k (sorry for being so crude) This is where we see the relationship was ALWAYS one sided, and this is why some of their live in partners stay because they are constantly being mirrored, when in reality these individuals have NOTHING in common with anybody. I feel cursed because I went thru the whole damn experience I have never in my life been so psychologically messed up as a result of another persons disorder. I keep seeing visions of him in my head one way, and then I remember for instance the choking me during sex and the cruel, sick, perverted person he turned into. Mirroring mixed with Cog Dis and it does a real number on your heart and head. I will work thru it, Now I know the beautiful smile on his face was a smile of evil working behind that mask. Rough night for sure, NO DESIRE to contact him, not only is this relationship not worth saving, it was DEADLY. I cant tell you how many times someone has said to me that its like I have been dead the last 4 years, and yes he DID kill me but I can come back to life again. X0x0 hurting psychopath will mirror your identity at the beginning, middle and end of a relationship, only in different ways at each stage. Initially, in order to win you over, he will pretend to be like you and to like everything about you. Robert Hare and Paul Babiak describe in Snakes in Suits how during the “assessment phase” of the relationship a psychopath will convey to his target four main messages: 1) I like you; 2) I share your interests; 3) I’m like you, and 4) I’m the perfect partner or soul mate for you. This process constitutes the mirroring phase of the psychopathic bond. Granted, most romantic relationships entail some aspects of mirroring. After all, that’s how couples discover their points in common. But with a psychopath the reflection tends to be instant and total. It’s a simulated bonding that’s way too fast, too soon and too good to be true. This happens before any real emotional connection can take place. It occurs before the partners have gotten to know each other well, over time and in different circumstances. Instant bonding is usually a symptom of shallowness of emotions rather than of miraculous compatibility. It means that the psychopath will detach from you and latch on to another target as easily as he initially attached to you. Yet through their conversational glibness and innate charm, as well as through their extraordinary capacity to identify and reflect your deepest desires, psychopaths can initially make you feel like they’re your dream come true. They present themselves as the only partners who could possibly fulfill whatever’s been missing from your life. During the course of the relationship, however, the psychopath reveals more and more his true colors. He becomes increasingly critical and controlling. What’s more, he also incites you to go along with his wrongdoings. That way you mirror his ugly personality and become his accomplice. His message switches from being “I’m just like you” (as moral, smart, kind, beautiful, ideal as you are) as it was during the luring phase to being “you’re just like me” (as deceitful, malicious, dishonest as you begin to see that he is). Keep in mind that, most likely, you’re not. Even if you’ve engaged in some wrongdoings, unless you thrive on pathological lying, promiscuity as a means of domination of others, playing mind games, harming others and power games you’re not likely to be a psychopath, like him. When you’ve finally had enough and leave the psychopath–or when he leaves you–he will see you as a devalued, distorted mirror image of himself and of your former, idealized, self as well. Every quality he initially saw in you–from beauty to brains–will be turned into its opposite. If he saw you as smart, you’re now stupid in his eyes. If he was attracted to your beauty, he now sees you as ugly. If he admired your hard work, he now views your efforts as a mindless submission to the system. As I’ve explained in the previous post about the process of idealize, devalue and discard, this negative mirroring at the end is a natural and inevitable unfolding of the psychopathic relationship. Just as the idealized mirror image at the beginning of the psychopathic bond had little to do with your qualities–they were false compliments intended to lure you–so the de-idealized mirror image at the end has nothing to do with you either. These distorted mirroring effects have everything to do with the character deficiencies of the psychopath himself, who suffers from an incurable evil. Which, incidentally, is a good way to describe the middle mirroring phase as well: when he says you, or all human beings, are like him, remember that’s not true either. A psychopath is different from–and far worse than–just about any human being you will ever know. http://psychopathyawareness.wordpr...ChtUmT3MT
Feb 28 - 6PM (Reply to #9)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

This is an excellent article

They present themselves as the only partners who could possibly fulfill whatever’s been missing from your life. And the aforementioned point specifically for me is something that I am diligently trying to work on, as I believe that regardless of how "together" we feel we were, there was something the psychopath could "sniff" out in me that drew him to me... I think in a way though, I should be flattered to have been discarded if only because the only reason why he ran was because even though I could not see it...didn't realize it...I wasn't a good enough "doormat?" His mother...forget about it...trauma bonded to the umpteenth degree...and I knew nothing of this disorder...somehow thought the apple fell far from the tree? As I put the pieces together I understand a lot...but in a way, as much as I hurt at the time...I'm seeing that with his disorder...he had to do what he did if he's textbook if only because he sensed I would never make a good Madonna...not subsurvient enough? They need bonafide doormats in order to feel secure...so for as much as we hurt, we really were/are exceptionally strong to be out of it...even those of us still one toe in one toe out if only because we can face such difficult truths? Think about all the women who are still in the fog...they can't see...I think in general, to be open, to admit, to share, to come to terms, to question, everything that is this process...I think it takes phenominal strength...and I think we all need to give ourselves a pat on the back for having the courage to face some very difficult facts about them, about our perceived relationship and about ourselves....
Mar 1 - 8AM (Reply to #10)
spinning
spinning's picture

Dear NLB and Michele, thank you

for engaging in this discussion. NLB, your pain has gone to good use as it has helped me take yet another step toward processing and healing by reading this discussion you and Michele fleshed out. NLB, thank you for the article; it describes what happened to me EXACTLY. Truly it does. I know so much more now that I did then... ...and yes, Michele, the disordered one I was involved with truly chose DOORMATS. The last one stayed with him through all the abuse for 19 years. I suppose with "just" six, I got off easy. I STOPPED rewarding his BAD BEHAVIOR and started asking questions; this coincided with a PRIORITY to my family which shifted the focus from ALL ABOUT HIM. I am having an exceedingly hard time right now but I just wanted to say that this honest discussion has helped me and I am grateful for all of you. Sincerely (determined to stop) spinning

spinning

Mar 1 - 12PM (Reply to #12)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

I AM SO GLAD

It helped you. You are not alone spinning in your struggle, know that we are always here to talk to for understanding and more clarity and support. We are left with so much to process, the more I understand the less pain I am in. x0x0
Mar 1 - 10AM (Reply to #11)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

And I thank you too spinning

Because it is a collective effort to get over this ordeal... (((Hugs)))
Feb 28 - 2PM
victimnomore
victimnomore's picture

neverlookback

We are not cursed for eternity. We were taught a valuable lesson that will help us in the future. We still have love inside of us and it will awaken again, just for a man that is worthy of us. I am beginning to be grateful to God for removing this evil out of my life to make room for something so much better and wholesome. I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason and all of this pain could not be in vain. If you don't have a test in your life than you won't have a "testimony". Maybe this has happened to us so that in the future we will be able to help someone else. If it didn't happen to lisa we would not have this site and I don't know about you but without this information and site I may have considered suicide. (That is how painful it was for me) So I have to think that God has a plan for us, we just have to stay the course to get to the other side! Peace!

victimnomore

Feb 28 - 2PM
ally2375
ally2375's picture

NLB

This is such a beautiful post. I feel much the same way. I can't claim as much indifference as you do; I mostly feel sad for him. It's sad that someone I cared for so much may never know what it is to really love someone and may never set aside his own needs long enough to actually experience a true connection with someone else. For me personally, I don't want to be the person I was before all of this. I want to be happy again (of course!) but I've learned so much about friendship, relationships and love. I feel like my heart has been opened and I am healing wounds that have been festering for a long time - long before the N appeared. I think you'll get back all you lost and then some.
Feb 28 - 2PM
Damaged Goods
Damaged Goods's picture

What doesn't kill you only

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. I think after being in this type of relationship we will all be a little more cautious is something doesn't feel right next time.We are not cursed. We are now empowered! We have knowledge and wisdom and foresight. I am new to all of this mess and I am having a really hard time accepting that I was duped. He was really really good and everytime he came back he got even better. I have made up my mind that HE WILL NEVER hurt me again.
Feb 28 - 2PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

NLB

So get it back. Yes you will be better and stronger than ever. You are over the hump now go and find NEVERLOOKBACK! Go do what you always liked to do, go find what you left behind. This experience had made me stronger appreciate life and the people in it. Every day is a fresh start and a new day. Find the beauty in the little things. Take a walk and smell the spring air, laugh with your family and friends. The Narc cant take any of that away from you. You need to rediscover what really makes you happy. Its a beautiful life! why keep dwelling on some Jackoff that doesn't even know which end is up. Keep me posted, I love to hear about what makes you happy. Idealk