I know I should be happy...but am hurt that ex-N never contacted me again

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December 14, 2010 - 9:58pm (Reply to #30)
Leah
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StillHurting, re: women who claim to support other women

Thanks for sharing about that. The friend of ex-N clearly only practiced her global healing mission for women...with women other than me. A bit strange. Yeah, I guess it feels like the relationship never happened, if he has no need to acknowledge it or its destruction. I still can't believe that he didn't make a different choice about how to say goodbye to me. He never thanked me for how I contributed to his life. He never thanked me for supporting him long-distance through tough times. I could never walk away from someone without acknowledging how they contributed to my life. Yes, a new life awaits me in California. And I will do my very best to forget that he lives there. Thanks so much for being so supportive, Leah
December 14, 2010 - 6:32am
onwithmylife
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Leah

i have a suggestion, when you get settled out in the Bay area, it may not hurt to look up a good therapist trained in dealing with NPD and get some sound advice for yourself from a trained professional, my hunch is you have some self esteem problems working here, I know I do, I have always had issues with low self esteem,people with healthy self esteem and healthy boundaries would never let themselves put up with as much bad and horrible behavior as these men have dumped upon us.Also to work on shedding the delusional thinking, that we can make it better, how could they do this to us? We have maybe too much naivity within us. I grew up with the belief that people were inherently good and never did see much evil first hand, I was always trusting, gullible and accepted people for who they are. this lesson, for me 15 years, at least you did not spend that amount of time with him, taught me more than anything previously, that we cannot always make things better, that there are evil and horrible people in the world who want to destroy others, and my eyes are now wide open and more discerning than before, maybe it is sad that way but it is what it is, I am not crazy about that expression but it is true.As for the friend, she is really not your friend obviously anymore, and as i get older and you will probably realize as well, people come and go in our lives and people will betray us as well, it is a hard nose fact to accept but i believe when you come to terms with it, you are better able to cope in the world and that does not mean having to become a hardass, but just more aware....We can only look at them for so long, then it becomes time to turn the MIRROR on US.........
December 14, 2010 - 10:11pm (Reply to #28)
Leah
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Onwithmylife, I have HUGE self-esteem issues...

I think I wear them on my sleeve. Soon I'll be turning 38, and every day I wrestle with finding a way to like and love and accept and honor myself. I agree-people with healthy self-esteem wouldn't stay in relationship with a narc for very long. I'm with a therapist right now, but before a few weeks ago, there was a gap of over a year and a half that I wasn't in therapy, because I couldn't afford it. It's too bad that my last therapist didn't tell me what I know now; that the city has always had a sliding scale therapy Institute's, and I could've saved myself thousands of dollars in the past 10 years. Don't worry, I've already started researching sliding scale therapy centers in the Bay Area. I don't want to have any gap between my sessions here and out there. I'm way too screwed up right now to go more than a week without therapy. I grew up with the BPD mom, and it was this past relationship with ex-N that woke me up to the reality of how much damage might BPD mom had done to me when I was a little girl. I always knew she had been horribly abusive... but I didn't realize how much damage had been done to my core self. Now I get it. If it weren't for the narc, I wouldn't have figured that out. I have been essentially been dating various versions of my mother, dressed up in male form, since I was 18. Pretty icky. Re: ex-N's friend, yes, she clearly couldn't be a friend. And I do need to focus on myself and the healing work I need to do on the stuff within me that has been damaged since childhood. I don't ever want to go through this kind of experience ever again, with a romantic partner, a business associate or friend... I've been surrounded by narcs for years, and from now on I'll be much more aware and vigilant. Thanks so much for listening and sharing. Hugs of thanks, Leah
December 14, 2010 - 5:55am
Scotchy71
Scotchy71's picture

Leah

I truly feel your pain and confusion....we hate them and want them all at the same time. What keeps me away is remembering what he did to me and knowing that is the real him, not the airy fairy crap he showed me in the beginning - anyone can do that, but only a heartless bottom feeding, scum sucking, emotionally infantile human (and I use that word loosely) could do these things and then walk away feeling nothing. They have no respect for themselves, so how can they have respect for anyone else????? You did nothing wrong, you are only the beautiful human that you are and he recognised that and fed off you to feed HIM. Nothing will ever fill their void because they are the only ones who can do that - they are too stupid to realise it is ONLY THEY who can help themselves, therefore the cycle continues, it didn't start with you and he'll never change, he can't. But rest assured, you will heal and move on, he will not - he'll be stuck, always hating himself and anyone (ie everyone) who is better than him - including you. He is angry you are always going to be better than him and he can't face it. Be strong sweetheart as you are, it's a process and hurts like a b*tch but we come out the other side and your life is just beginning I PROMISE XXX hugs and love always xxx
December 14, 2010 - 10:18pm (Reply to #24)
Leah
Leah's picture

Scotchy71

this is what I need to work on. 'Heartless bottom feeding, scum sucking, emotionally infantile human' I know I have a lot of healing work to do because those words ring true to me, yet I still have moments of doubt and beating myself up. I need to really work on my self-esteem, which I mentioned in another post in this thread. I really have to start from scratch. If I had a healthy dose of self-esteem, I would've left him in the beginning. I would've never hung around. Thanks for the reminder to be strong and to keep moving forward. While I'm really sad, I do get a sense that I'm starting my life over and it'll be much better than it ever could have been with him in it. I'll work on keeping the faith. I'll try. Thanks so much for your words. Hugs of thanks, Leah
December 15, 2010 - 5:17am (Reply to #25)
Scotchy71
Scotchy71's picture

Leah

There was and is nothing wrong with your self esteem.....he was drawn to you because OF your self esteem and he wanted it. When I met mine, I was full of self esteem and liked who I was and he loved that - a strong, confident woman who he could drain and make his. No one on this board left straight away because as humans, we tend to believe the good in what we see and really, who could imagine anyone could do what they do? This has nothing to do with you being in low self esteem....look how intelligent and together everyone here is and yet look at all they've been through - you included. Believe me, in time comes clarity and strength - knowledge is strength and I know it doesn't feel like it now, but you are healing and realising his worth....zero! Mine has even resorted to now saying he "technically didn't cheat" as the relationship with ow wasn't "consummated"..he fails to see the intention was there and he was having a relationship with someone else, and the only reason he didn't meet her is because she realised fairly early on, he was a narc and cut contact....he told her he didn't want to end it. That's how much responsibility they take - none, and it never changes. You're stronger than you think and I didn't think I could see each day through and I hardly miss him after 4 months of dumping his sorry ass - I still think about him every day but I know every word spewing from that gaping hole in his face is a lie - your brain will eventually over rule your heart and you will feel a sense of peace...hugs to you xxx Well done on moving, best thing you could do for YOU x
December 15, 2010 - 8:16pm (Reply to #26)
Leah
Leah's picture

Scotchy71, it's funny what you say about self-esteem

because I remember reading in one of the books that initially, a narc is attracted to our self-esteem and confidence and... energy. then the book explains that the narc abuses us and brings us down, and then when they've rendered us weak, they D&D us. The book said that narc's are pulsed by weakness. In one scenario, the book demonstrated a case study where a woman didn't lose her power, and he remained attracted to that, so she left him. Sometimes I wish I had been that woman, instead of the woman who kept e-mailing him and finally pleading with him not to break up with her. I gave away my power, and he was repulsed by my weakness. I wish I had ended on a high note, so to speak. He even commented on it in the break up call. two days before the breakup call, I had shared with ex-N that he had been dismissive in the past week, and had been emotionally distant for three weeks. I had told him that it had hurt me, and I had shared it in the spirit of reconciliation and deepening the intimacy of our relationship. In the breakup call, he said to me, 'well, I know I shouldn't psychoanalyze you but, if I've treated you badly for the last three weeks, then why do you still have feelings for me?' My response was, in a desperate, crying voice, 'because I love you!' He was dumbfounded by what I said. He couldn't understand why I would be patient with three weeks of unusual and hurtful behavior... as if I should be willing to throw away a six-month relationship for what I thought was a brief period of mistreatment, which I have attributed to his depression. My move conjures up excitement as well as fear, but I have to do it. I don't know if you know this, but I'm moving to his area, not because of him, but because they think it's a great place to live. I've decided that he can't own the entire area, and I'm entitled to my little corner there, too. the move is actually freaking me out, and I've been second guessing my choice to do it... it's like I'm getting cold feet. But all of my oldest friends have been telling me that it's the best choice they've seen me make it almost a decade. They remind me that my life has been stagnant for over five years... maybe eight... and I've been avoiding this kind of big, earthshaking change for a long time. So even though I'm scared sh**less, I'm gonna do it anyway. *deep breath* Big hug of thanks, Leah
December 14, 2010 - 3:26am
helldweller
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Leah and Bri

So, so true. That mutual friend is not going to be much help to anyone else. One other thing I remembered about my "soul sister" OW as well is that she is 50 and never married, never was engaged, and never had children. I asked her about marriage and children and the narc, and she said, "We never talked about it" like she was so shocked to even hear me bring it up. Said she never wanted kids, never wanted to get married, etc, etc. but then cried about the narc's foster child and never seeing him again. I started thinking, "Hmmmmmmmm. These two actually have quite a lot in common, with their independence/pretend parenthood thing going on" as she then went on and on about her business and her running, etc, interspersing that with more crying about the child. I am starting to think they were both just sucking love off the kid, and that they maybe deserve each other, especially now that she apparently isn't concerned about my kids anymore, as she seemed to be at first. I mean, if you never wanted kids and then fell in love with someone who had a child you loved, wouldn't you start naturally thinking about having your own? Maybe I'm being haughty or judgmental, but it just seems like a natural thing to me. It's something that never happened with the narc either: wanting his OWN children after he grew attached to the foster child. I'm rambling. I should go back to bed!
December 14, 2010 - 3:15am
helldweller
helldweller's picture

Leah

I couldn't sleep and was reading the forum on my iPhone and had to get up and write back when I saw your post. I totally get where you are coming from. It hurts so so much that they just walk away. I was with my narc for four years, and he is just gone now. No apology about the OW; not even a fake one. No flowers. No promises. No mushy card. No explanation. Nothing. And I thought i was going to spend the rest of my life with him, for better or worse. Just gone. I've got the same thing going on, too, with the OW as you do with the mutual friend. We talked at first for a couple of days, and he was "an a******" and could "go to H*ell" as she put it. Totally against him and so, so strong and very concerned about my children's well-being. We were big buddies, totally supportive of each other. "Stray strong" was the last thing she said to me. I contacted her a couple of weeks after we first spoke and she did not answer and never responded. I called her because she called and hung up. I started freaking out when she did that and wouldn't respond, and I left her a bunch of messages voicing my concern for her, wondering why she called, including one in tears expressing how worried I was that she was going back to him because he has caused my daughters and I so much pain and was still screwing other women here in Chicago and firting relentlessly at our children's school, and still hoovering me. I asked her to please, please just talk to me for one minute or write me a quick text to tell me what was going on so I wasn't in the dark, so I wasn't the fool yet again, and she absolutely would not respond. So we went from "soul sisters" to me being in the dark again, me being the idiot again and not worthy of a call or note. I know there is nothing I can do to stop her from finding out herself about what he's capable of, but I am really pissed that, even though she knows what he is, she doesn't have the courtesy to respond, even when I was in tears just asking her to tell me why she called. So of course, for the past two weeks I have been walking around picturing them in the pool again together, at her hotel downtown, and Christmas shopping with the narc and his child, just like old times. I'm not jealous, per se, in that I do not want to be with him any longer, but it's aggravating that she's got me thinking about this stuff again--and that she doesn't have the decency to respond to me when I went out of my way to talk to her, to warn her, to answer her questions, to help her. Your spirituality is a real gift. I dont' know what I'd do without my faith, and I know things will get better, but this is painful, painful stuff we are finding out about people. Know, Leah, that this mutual friend is under his spell, too. Or else she wouldn't be friends with him. She may seem self assured and all of that, just the way my OW did, but in the end they are sponges for the crap the narc throws down. I have to keep telling myself that over and over: the OW suspected the narc of cheating for more than a year. She said they fought all the time because he left her sitting alone after her efforts to come here from CA to visit each month. He made little time for her, he lied to her about his work schedule, he never went to see her--and she stayed. She's not much, if any, stronger or more self assured than I was. This is disappointing, too. I was using her as a role model for how a normal person would respond to his BS, and now I've had to throw her out because she's no stronger than I was. I would tell myself, "Look at V. She dumped his *ss. That's how it's done. Guess not. I have a feeling I wil be hearing from her again one day. Unfortunately for her. I feel like my mom, who always said, "I wish I could learn your lessons for you." Oh, well. Hang in there, beautiful!
December 14, 2010 - 3:43pm (Reply to #15)
Leah
Leah's picture

Heldweller, the dynamics you describe

are so similar. Sharing your story and perspective helps me feel less alone in this. this friend of his lives far away... like thousands of miles away. They were high school friends and fell out of touch until a few years ago, where they bumped into each other at their high school reunion. She has rarely spent time with him in person since they reconnected five or so years ago; I don't think she has any idea what he's like when he lets his guard down and all his quirks come out into daylight. In the book I was reading recently, 'Narcissistic Lovers,' they mention that Narcs frequently have close friends who live far away, where they can see the daily behavior patterns. And, almost all of his close friends (about three) are women. He has virtually no male friends, except for his oldest friend who lives six hours away. this friend of his... who I try to reestablish a friendship with... I don't think she has any idea of how disturbed and broken he is. I think if she knew how he treated me and how he discarded me,she would be quite confused and torn. I don't think she will ever really see who he is, and he puts on the 'nice guy' façade for her, so that's all she knows. I guess it's sad that she is caught in his web of disorder. Heldweller, thanks so much for sharing and supporting. Your words and the words of the other women helped keep me from contacting him, which now that his semester is done, I feel drawn to do. But I'll work hard to maintain NC. Hugs of thanks, -Leah
December 14, 2010 - 8:34pm (Reply to #16)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

Leah

One of the main characteristics in these guys' dear, beloved relationships (that is, not the relationships with us) is the distance. I am quite aware that the second I became part of his real life, his ordinary, everyday life, I was done in his mind. They do not want stable of any kind. They do not want real of any kind. They want unstable, catch as catch can, exciting, open-ended, ever-changing. My narc's other woman is his ideal: she lives thousands of miles away, comes in to see him every month, and he meets her in a hotel and has a mini vacation with her and his child downtown, shopping, swimming, sightseeing. I remember when I was a college kid and thought it was great to visit a boyfriend or a military guy or whatever over the weekend, taking the train, being in a different environment, being away from reality and just enjoying the different place. WHEN I WAS TWENTY!
December 15, 2010 - 9:28pm (Reply to #21)
Leah
Leah's picture

Heldweller, my therapist said to me that

my ex-N was perfectly comfortable maintaining an ambiguous, long-distance relationship. And when he visited me here on the East Coast, since it wasn't his territory, and because it was in the idealization phase, he was really happy to be here and was really excited about me. When I went to visit him, I became 'real,' and the therapist thinks this didn't work for him. He didn't want a real woman or a real relationship. He didn't really want me to visit him. He didn't like me invading his territory. He just liked 'having me around' long-distance to support him through tough times, and he could also leech my love and light. He never wanted me to appear in the flesh in the first place, even though weeks before, he had literally begged me to drop my life here and to join him in his home. Total crazy-making. Ugh. Thanks for sharing and listening. Now this makes so much more sense to me. Really. Hugs of thanks, Leah
December 15, 2010 - 8:59pm (Reply to #18)
aceonelady
aceonelady's picture

helldweller,leah...distance

Yes i live in Euroe he in the USA ....the day i bought the ticket to go visit him,(he was asking me to go there for almost a year)i called him,he answered the phone,said hello and went on talking bullshit with a girl co worker ,so i said hey,i am still here...he started screaming saying i was being rude and that i had to shut up...that he was exchanging ringtones for their cellphone...i felt like the earth under my feet was opening and i was sinking in ...He could have answered the phone and said,listen i can't talk now call back later...no,he had to mistreat me in front of this girl,he was screaming and raging,and when i told him this is no way of treating anybody on the phone specially a person that he says he loves and just bought a very expensive ticket to go be with him,he told me to get off my high horse,the world do not revolves ariound me and he hang up on my face....Later,he called me on Skype and actted like nothing had happenned...and me,i was devasted,but just kept my mouth shut to avoid more problems,and thought it was the stress he felt because he had waited so long for me to go there...when i got there,he D&D me in a terrible way ,after having sex with me 48 hours after my arrival...and when my flight arrived,he was waiting for me at the Airport,talking to an Utility worker girl,and when i walked towards them,that girl runned away from him,saying...I have nothing to do with him,he knows my cousi...and he told me later i should have waited when i arrived and not have walked towards him...when we got to his appartment his boss called asking if i arrived ok,he said Yes she did but i am trying to fit her in my busy schedule...he works as a maintenance guy at Housing Authority,from 8 till 5...I thought i was dying already,and i just got there an hour and all that shit happenned already...and i just kept my mouth,not wanting to destroy things...i am crying as i write this...Please read my story...Love to you all...It has been 2 years and i found out a year ago what Narcissism and psycopaths are,but still feeling like i do not know what hit me,i feel abused,raped ,and left for dead...the worst is how they can walk away with no remorse at all...He started NC,after i came back from there ,after a stay from 2 months that almost drove me to lose my life...please read my story...

Aceonelady

December 15, 2010 - 9:36pm (Reply to #19)
Leah
Leah's picture

aceonelady, re: ex-N's and distance

I think I read your story a little while back, but this weekend I'll make time to go back and read it again. I totally hear you. I had a similarly strange experience when I visited my ex-N. They are all the same. See what I wrote a little above your post, in response to Heldweller... about what my therapist told me. I hope being here on the board is helping you with your recovery. I don't think I'd be able to recover without this board and all of you. Thanks for being here and being supportive and sharing. Sending lots of hugs, Leah
December 15, 2010 - 9:49pm (Reply to #20)
aceonelady
aceonelady's picture

Leah re distance...aceonelady

Thanks Leah...i feel for all of us,and our stories just really show that doesn't matter what we have done to meet their needs and loving them,when they are done with us they are done....Hughs ...Thanks for sharing and being supportive...

Aceonelady

December 14, 2010 - 10:24pm (Reply to #17)
Leah
Leah's picture

Heldweller, wow, the distance factor is really true, isn't it?

That's amazing. So I'm not imagining that am I? Thanks so much for sharing that. Everybody's posts remind me that all of these narcs are the same, just with some minor differences. The more I hear the similarities between other narcs and my ex-N, the more it stinks in that my ex-N was as toxic and f*ckd up as I felt it was. I look forward to leaving the 'shock' stage soon... Much thanks, Leah
December 14, 2010 - 3:01am
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Hmmm, let's reword this a

Hmmm, let's reword this a little bit. You should be "happy" that you got dumped? That you invested a lot of time (and money) in a long distance relationship to the point you made plans to move out to be near him, and had him suddenly discard you like you meant NOTHING to him? Happy about that? See what I mean :D What you feel is normal, par for the course. It just SUCKS. You are "shoulding" on yourself a bit much here. And don't you dare start shoulding on yourself for shoulding on yourself :D Why on God's green earth would you be HAPPY about any of this? I think "gratitude" is more accurate, and that just won't come for a little while yet. When the cognitive dissonance dies down a bit more, perhaps. You just had a horrible thing happen to you. Even though it happened more than two months ago, you still have only been "working" on it from this angle for a couple of weeks maybe? Your "NC" is really only a couple of weeks old. That business with the mutual female friend . . . ? WTH?? Sorry, but something ain't right with what she did to you (like you haven't noticed). Who knows what he said to her? And if she "connected" with you so well, and then dropped you like a hot potato, I'd say it wasn't much of a connection. Unless you tried to get her to rob a bank with you? Did you ask her to kill someone for you :D ? I didn't think so. So what the hell? Either SHE is superficial as he is, or he said something to her. And if she believed it (and doesn't see through HIM), that's not a healthy person. This relationship would have not been a good thing in the long run anyway :( I don't care what she says she IS, all that high falutin' savior of womankind stuff. She is sure quick to DUMP a woman who'd just gone through some serious HELL. Fat lot of good she's gonna do any other woman having problems. Pffft. Keep focusing on yourself. A friend of HIS cannot possibly be a friend of YOURS. Think about it for a minute or two. Don't be fooled by what people SAY they are, watch what they DO. This woman is a dumper just like the Narc. To hell with her. It means nothing about you! Unless (like I said) you tried to get her involved in your ponzi scheme :D
December 14, 2010 - 3:18pm (Reply to #2)
Leah
Leah's picture

Briseis, you know me well

You're right, I often do the 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' to myself. And tears came to my eyes when I read the first paragraph. It's still fresh for me. It feels like the D&D happened yesterday. Yes, it's difficult to feel gratitude for him not having contacted me. And I trust that in the future I will feel grateful... just not yet. I have to say, I wish I had never contacted his friend. I did it at a time when I felt completely devastated, and was hoping 1) that there was still hope of some good coming out of the ex-N relationship...her friendship & 2) that she would provide some guidance as to how to reconnect him, even if it would only be as 'friends'. If I hadn't contacted her, maybe he would've contacted me... I think someone above posted that by my contacting her, he experienced it as a narcissistic injury, and wrote me off for good. It was only after she went MIA that I remembered how he had told me at the beginning of the relationship that he had a lot of trust and abandonment issues. His wife cheated on him and left him (10 years ago), and because he has shared custody, he was always talking about her in scathing terms. I have a feeling he interpreted my contacting his friend as ultimate betrayal, which is not what it was. At the time I desperately wanted to contact him, but because of the way he D&D'd me, I was afraid to contact him...and wanted her advice. I didn't say anything negative about him to her; in fact at that time, I couldn't figure out what I did wrong for him to leave me like that, and I told her that I thought he would never speak to me again. I did tell her that I was moving to the Bay Area; I didn't tell her that with the intention of her sharing it with him. From the first e-mail, she made it clear that she wouldn't share any of our conversation with him...or at least that's what she said. So maybe by his score, not only did I contact one of his best friends, but I didn't tell him directly that I was moving to the Bay Area (if indeed she told him). But I didn't contact him directly because I was afraid. His silence for those first four weeks was deafening, so I was afraid that contacting him would provoke his rage or something else that I couldn't predict. So, was it really that horrible and betraying for me to contact his friend...when he had introduced us to each other only months before, knowing full well that he & I may or may not remain in relationship? Did I really cross some kind of line that I'm unaware of? And if I did, then why was she so happy to hear from me and had so much to share about her life and had lots of questions about mine? or should I have asked for his permission, because it was his friend, and she and I had fallen out of touch? He and I had a phone call two days before the breakup. He had mentioned that he would be calling her, saying that something really challenging was going on in her life. Earlier in the relationship, he freely shared about what was going on for her. On that call, when I asked him what she was going through, he angrily said to me, 'Are you in contact with her?' When I told him, 'No, she hasn't written to me in several months, and I haven't wanted to bother her,' he said that he wasn't comfortable sharing about her life with me, if she hadn't told me directly. It was very strange... he had never spoken to me like that before. It was like he was keeping a secret from me, just to spite me. I will always wonder if he would have contacted me, if I hadn't contacted his friend. I think I would've just felt some kind of self-satisfaction to receive contact from him, even if I didn't want to reply or respond. and even though I shouldn't care how he feels, if indeed my contacting her really hurt him... I feel bad about that. It never once crossed my mind that by contacting her I would be betraying him. If I had thought of that, maybe I wouldn't have contacted her. Despite the fact that he's a mentally disturbed jerk, I didn't want to hurt him; it's not my style. I guess I feel regret. That's a bad habit of mine. -Leah
December 14, 2010 - 3:40pm (Reply to #11)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I know myself well, and the

I know myself well, and the longer I go at this, there's just a lot of similarities in how people feel and think after a disaster of a Narc relationship. Interesting how after he devastated you so deliberately, that you whack yourself around over the POSSIBILITY of hurting him. Contacting a mutual friend after the shock of an abrupt break up like this is what ANYONE would do. You give yourself too much credit and not enough. It's like some stuff is backwards in how you are relating to this "possibility" of hurting him. I had/have this too. It's called being raised by a PDI. I used to "hurt" my father all the time. By not cleaning my room properly so he had to switch me and then feel "bad" about it and go crawling to my mother for HIS comfort. Having a PDI for a parent is like growing up in a fun house mirror room. They reflect back to us major distortions in how we affect them. I grew up fearing my "ability" to hurt other people. I am dead serious. It is not and was not "normal". It's like I felt like I had a sinister, negative effect on people. I DON'T. I just grew up believing it because my father was a nutjob. We learn who we are from our parents. And people like you and me learn WRONG. What you DID do was natural and harmless. You just wanted to understand. If this HURT him poor wittle feewings . . . good GOD, sister! Just because someone else thinks you did something "wrong" does not mean you DID do something wrong. That is a major thing you need to wrap your head around, chickie :) Otherwise you'll be jerked around for the rest of your life by someone else's opinion of you. Your sense of worth and value as a person lies inside you ONLY. You weren't allowed to have it as a child, but now you are an adult. Claim it. It's been waiting for you all these years. I discovered that when I encountered a negative opinion of me in another person, it still hurts. But they aren't my judge and jury. I am. This is very important. And I have better relationships than EVER now. Not worse ones. I did not die, self combust, or melt when I started to tell myself "I'll be the judge of what I did wrong." It is a bad habit, alright, to sink into regret and self blame every time someone doesn't looooove you. That's all it is. Really. That is NOT your only option. Does that make sense? Your biggest problem (as I see it, so this is IMO, and in part because I have three fingers pointing back at me :D ) is that you have been taught that just meeting your NORMAL NEEDS causes other people pain. It sure does, if the other person is a PDI. But with the rest of humanity? No. And meeting your needs for closure and understanding by contacting this person? After the ringing emptiness he left you with? IT WAS A GOOD THING TO DO! Besides . . . if he got a narcissistic injury out of THAT, he's as hopeless as they come. Does he think he's God or something? That he's entitled to be angry because you talk to his friend? God! And his ex wife? I'll believe she had an affair and broke his heart AFTER I believe the moon is made of cheese. She probably dumped him and fled for her life. Please. He didn't just become a Narc when you entered the picture :)
December 17, 2010 - 11:31pm (Reply to #13)
Deidre99
Deidre99's picture

I just wanted to say wow.

I just wanted to say wow. This is an amazing post, Briseis. I cried reading it. I believe you when you say some of us just have to give this time. I had a much worse narc breakup years ago...it took a LONG time to get over. Get over, meaning, to where I didn't think about him at all. So...there is hope. I loved where you say...''It's been waiting for you all these years.'' (referencing our ability to our sense of self worth) This really helped me tonight.
December 14, 2010 - 4:18pm (Reply to #12)
Leah
Leah's picture

Wow Briseis, that really hit home

Wow. Briseis, I remember you mentioning this in a post before, but I guess it didn't sink in. Yes, I always feel like I cause great harm to people. Just saying that (I'm dictating this on Dragon NaturallySpeaking because of my arm injuries, I'm not typing), and I start to cry. Recently in my personal history statement for my grad school application, I said that my sister and I lived in that house like soldiers navigating a war zone. My mother and father both taught me that very WRONG lesson-that I cause other people pain with my everyday needs. By you reminding me of that, it really asks me to look at this from 'normal' (read: not raised by PDI parent) eyes. I didn't do anything wrong, did I? I guess therapy, coming here and going to CoDA meetings will be a start in learning how to claim that worth and value that I rarely feel for myself. Re: his friend, she made it clear that she didn't want to bring any understanding or closure to my confusion, simply by changing the topic and asking me about myself. I guess that alone wasn't very supportive of her, now that I think about it. Yeah, I guess it is pretty crazy for him to be so angry about me contacting his friend, that he rages and forbids her to ever speak to me again. And considering that she listened to him and disappeared without even the courtesy of a final e-mail, it doesn't speak much to her integrity either. Regarding his ex-wife, I have a feeling that you're right. they were together six or seven years I think, and they are total adversaries. When I visited him, he gave me a tour of the neighborhood, and he pointed out the law office where she supposedly met the man with whom she cheated on him, and then left him. Ex-N told me the story with such sadness and contempt, as if it had happened yesterday instead of 10 years ago. He also pointed out the exact spot where his father died 30 years before... also as if it had happened yesterday... with no indication of any healing work having been done. It was eerie. I also have a theory that the ex-wife may also be an N, but that's only if I believe the countless stories he told me about her crazy behavior. I'll never know what was truth and what was fiction. -Leah
December 14, 2010 - 3:34pm (Reply to #3)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

Leah Please readVIP

You need to get over the regret, you saved yourself from so many years, of wasted emotions, energy, heartbreak,, he would just go on to round 2,3, 4, and on and on with you, it is much EASIER to get over a Narc relationship before 3 years as Agnes Murphy said, longterm like mine was is MUCH HARDER to recover from and 2 years out i can testify to that. I remember writing a post here in the fall and saying maybe i should not have told the EXN that i went out for coffee with a man I met the internet at a free dating website , after we reconciled for the millionth time and she said why should you not tell the truth, after all we had broken up and he sent me back a letter I had sent him so we were DONE, she is right on and that moment I got my epipihany, he was just trying to guilt me and pull my chain because he KNOWS how to do that after 15 years, be REAL GRATEFUL and in time you will be, I guarantee it, that he dropped you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WORK ON YOUR SELF, it is the most important thing you can do for yourself to heal.
December 14, 2010 - 4:22pm (Reply to #4)
Leah
Leah's picture

Onwithmylife

Yes, I feel lucky to have only gone through a six-month relationship with my ex-N. I need to remember that...that I was spared a lot. Many of you have endured a decade or more. I can't even imagine how you coped. Thank you for reminding me to: 1) let go of regret 2) work on myself and heal Hugs of thanks, Leah
December 14, 2010 - 4:35pm (Reply to #5)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Only in for six months, Leah???

Oh, you are so lucky! If I had seen these signs even within the first three years I would have been okay leaving. At least you didn't have a big long history with all of these episodes like some of us. You are going to be just fine.
December 14, 2010 - 4:44pm (Reply to #6)
Leah
Leah's picture

StillHurting

I agree that I'm lucky. I think the reason that such a short relationship rocked me to my core is because I dropped all of my boundaries and really let him get under my skin...like he was in my skin...do you know what I mean? And because we moved so fast, even though I was still trying to figure out if I wanted a long-term relationship with him, I was totally invested in the journey and was ready to move there to be with him. I really thought that we were moving towards something serious, and it was only at the end of the relationship when I started to notice the incongruity of his behavior and communication compared with the beginning of the relationship. So I guess I feel kind of silly being so traumatized by something so short. But I guess it's because I really invested in it with all my heart, in time and money, and really didn't see it coming. The D&D is what stings the most, and it was the opposite of the man I met six months before. I'll keep remembering that I'm lucky. That is very true. I need to get perspective on this. I really do. Thanks as always, Leah
December 14, 2010 - 5:06pm (Reply to #7)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Leah

I understand that you thought it would be something. This is how normal people proceed. I thought when this guys kids were older we were going to be together. Why the hell else would I be around? We were attached at the hip practically, and it's hard for people to understand that the situation with him and his wife is very strange for sure. Other people told me also. I never felt like I was the second choice. We got along very well for a long time. Recently, when I said this has been going on forever so maybe we better take this year and spend more time together to see if we are really going to do anything ever, he tells me about the dressing. I was totally blindsided. Then I was like are you really going to stay there after your child is 17 or whatever, and he said no, I will not stay with her. He never asked me to wait around, don't get me wrong. I did it myself. I believe in love and romance and that things can work. I believe someone can make a mistake and then not want to abandon their kids. I know it is a long shot, but it was a possibility. Then I start reading about his narc stuff, and now I don't know what to think. He is losing a really great girl here.
December 14, 2010 - 10:34pm (Reply to #8)
Leah
Leah's picture

StillHurting, he is losing a really great girl

for sure. But a narc wouldn't know a really great girl if she walked right over him, right? Yeah, hopes and expectations sit deep in our psyches, don't they? I totally understand how you feel. It feels horrible. But like the others are reminding me, we will have better lives without them. I hope you feel better tomorrow. Sending hugs, Leah
December 15, 2010 - 5:34am (Reply to #9)
Scotchy71
Scotchy71's picture

Me again

Hi Leah...the problem for us girls/guys is we ARE great and they have this really annoying way of spotting it and that's why we are here. Remember, they're too emotionally infantile to have the smarts to make a life with us and go past the honeymoon phase....that would mean they have to grow up and have an adult relationship....it would also mean admitting and realising they have to seriously care and know we have needs too, they're too selfish and lacking in empathy to fake it that far. They never progress past this stage and invest so much energy into pretending to be perfect...who could keep that up??? No one!!!! Not even the best actor. That was the only right thing he did...spot a great woman - you, he just didn't have the emotional intelligence of a grown up well balanced man to appreciate what he had - his loss, through and through and time and time again. Stay strong..we're all with you. xx
December 16, 2010 - 10:42pm (Reply to #10)
Leah
Leah's picture

Scotchy71, about the honeymoon phase

It's so funny you mention that. I visited him in August (long distance relationship). Got back home on a Tues. morning; had taken red-eye. That Sunday night (5-month mark), I told him I sensed his feelings had changed for me. He said: "To tell you the truth, Leah, I'm not as smitten with you as I was when I visited you 3 months ago." When I asked him why, he said... "Well, the honeymoon phase is over, and it's normal to not feel as smitten. Also, you still don't know where you're going to graduate school...so I'm feeling really guarded...yeah that sounds like me...I'm protecting myself." I asked him if he still wanted to be in relationship with me. He said: "I don't want to break up with you. I'm not seeing anyone else." It was the beginning of the D&D; he broke up with me 3 weeks later. Disgusting. Totally disgusting. Thanks for listening & sharing wisdom & strength. I need to hear it. And thanks for the reminder that they have heat seeking radar for our strengths. I must say, 3.5 months post-discard, I still can't reconnect to my strengths & core self. I feel totally fragmented and insecure. I've always been insecure, but this is much worse. Thanks so much for your support, Scotchy, Leah