Goodbye, Friends

It's a struggle for me to respond to you without getting caught up in the anger you seem to be feeling. I am not going to walk on eggshells in my position as a moderator and I would hope to God the rest of the membership feels safe enough to avoid walking on them, too. Well, now we’re finally getting somewhere! Let’s address what needs addressing! I don’t think you should walk on eggshells, and my intent was actually NOT to dictate what you can or can’t say, although I guess it sure sounded like it. But I felt like I had one side misrepresenting me, or people like me, in a negative way, and another side misrepresenting me in a supposedly positive way, but it was still a misrepresentation. That is probably the single most frustrating thing I can think of… and now I can see that you feel the same way, so I want to work on clearing it up! I will say that you appear to making as MANY assumptions as you accuse others of making about you. I do not believe the OW thread was written with YOU in mind, or anyone HERE. Maybe I just haven't been on the board long enough to understand the long term dynamics going on under the surface? I thought we were helping a NEW member understand some basic principles of cause and effect. NO, the OW is not the problem, it's your NARC, and she's a victim of him just like you. That's what I saw and read. I admit I am clueless about how this whole thing blew up. I am shocked at the level of anger this brought forth. I read the same words everyone else read, and understand better, perhaps. Is this something that has happened before? An OW bashfest? That is sad. I would appreciate it if you would contact me off the board… betty already has the okay to give my email address. There are some things I would prefer to discuss privately. But for this discussion, I can tell you that every single person who has spoken to me on or off the board who is in the OW category also read the same words you read, and they all felt the same way I did about it. Are we ALL confused? Or are those feelings perhaps legitimate? You mentioned feeling safe on the board, and I have already had two people tell me they will probably never post again. I am not going to start rehashing every statement made as it will keep it going… but, I’m sorry. Categoric statements were made. Normal people WILL apply such statements to themselves, especially when the speaker becomes more and more adamant that yes… “a woman who XYZ…” When someone says “a woman who knows he’s in a relationship…” means a woman who knows. Period. It doesn’t mean some women, or that woman, or imaginary women, or women not present… the majority of comments were even clarified as A woman. Am I a woman? I think so. Then after people were crying foul, it was, oh, well not you. There are a few stories that are different. It’s like when my husband says things like how stupid women are… and I get mad, and he says well obviously I didn’t mean you. Well, no, it’s not obvious. Then it was repeatedly added, “I would never do that.” I mean, come on, it defies common sense to think that doesn’t have an affect on anyone who did. I see an elephant in the frontroom here. That it is "OK" for you, Betteroff, to mock members here in your anger. I realize you were PISSED off and hurt. But you have to admit the last few sentences in your original post were mocking. GOOD, then say that to me. I’m glad you did. Because THIS is not a patronizing comment to tell me that, it’s direct. And I want to explain why I said that, and apologize for being hurtful, when the goal was not shame but to make a gigantic point. What seems like hypocrisy was instead meant for effect, to point out what *I* felt was hypocrisy. It crossed a line. And I admit I feel ambivalent about it even now. Because while I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings, the POINT is that it’s a two-way street, is it not? If OW are so dumb to fall for a narc in a relationship, then why isn’t the wife or gf dumb for keeping a cheater (or liar, thief, meth dealer, etc)? It’s two sides of the same narc coin. How many lies did you believe or ignore? Does that make you dumb? No. I used a harsh tactic to say that you can’t have it both ways. Either we are all dumb, or none of us are. I vote for none of us. Obviously that isn’t how it would be read by a lot of people. So it was a poor choice. I totally forgive you (whether you want to be forgiven or not). But I wasn't the only one hurt by those words, either. All of the newbies and newer members who haven't been by your side from the beginning? Those kind of words HURT and have even LESS place on this board than a ridiculous debate on the sins of the OW. I see this as more of the same… the kind of words that would hurt someone who stayed with a narc have even LESS place than the words that hurt the OW? Hmm. Disagree. This illustrates some of my earlier comments… talking about the sins of the OW was hurtful, but it’s LESS hurtful than hurting someone who’s not an OW. It feels we will always be second class because of our "sins." You are tired of being silenced? Me too, girlfriend. I respect you and LOVE your posts. But I didn't like that one. I’m glad you said so then. Because I CAN take it. I can take someone saying I don’t like what you said, and here’s why and we can talk about it… I much prefer that to being placed in a box or category or caricature that is defined by other people, which is how I felt. And I respect you and love reading your posts as well. I care about what you are feeling, but I'm not going to allow it to compromise my role here. I'm going to advocate for all of us who felt shamed and pushed away by your angry words. I'm not going to sit here and "make peace" when there is nothing peaceful about it. Well, my angry words were advocating for all of us who felt shamed and pushed away by other comments. And I don’t disagree with the idea of making peace, it was the manner that bothered me. It felt to me like the kind you grow up with in abusive or alcoholic homes, where everyone’s told everything is fine and nobody meant it, and let’s just all get along, and nothing really got resolved, it just got pushed down. That’s just my opinion obviously, but that’s what I meant by that idea. Does that make sense? In terms of where I was coming from with that? And now I'm done, and am not going to engage in a debate about the rightness or wrongness of MY feelings with anyone. As yours are perfectly OK, so are mine. I hope you come back as sassy and frank and blunt and outrageously TRUE as ever, Betteroff. The exN (who is not American) once asked me if sassy meant bitch. LOL. Maybe a bitch with style. ;-P I really am going out of town now… so everyone can relax.