Quick thought about Word Salad

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October 2, 2010 - 10:57am (Reply to #61)
better off
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They don't "get it" that

They don't "get it" that they are shitting all over your life, because they don't CARE about your life. You're a woman, that's what you're THERE FOR. That's your JOB. Your life doesn't matter. Only his life matters.
October 2, 2010 - 11:01am (Reply to #62)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

A revision

They don't "get it" they are shitting all over your life, because they don't care about your life. You're a human, that's what you're THERE FOR. That's your JOB. Your life doesn't matter. Only his life matters. I'm saying this because the ex-P victimized males too...
October 1, 2010 - 12:02am (Reply to #49)
better off
better off's picture

OMG, how self-absorbed and

OMG, how self-absorbed and crazy is that? I can't have a relationship with a child... and I might end up somehow against my will having a relationship with a child.. and then I might want a child... and then you can't give me one. Gee, overthink things much? What a freaking WEIRDO. I know you think you love him, but is the real you, the nonbrainwashed you, truly attracted to a man who cannot ABIDE a relationship with a child? YOUR child? The woman he "loves?" Your child is a piece of you. JERK JERK JERK. Thank God he never got within one yard of your child. I do like your synopsis: "Then I freaked out because I realized that My Perfect Woman wouldn't want kids, not because she has a need or a feeling one way or the other, but because she wouldn't want them because I don't want them. BUT, if I decided that I did want them, then My Perfect Woman would be able to produce them out of her own body regardless of whether she really wanted them or not but because I wanted them." That's what everything would be like with a creep like him. His Perfect Woman needs to be able to change on a dime, just like him. Like a big, smiling Barbie that has to be able to perform opposite functions. Like be short because my Perfect Woman is short. No, she's tall. No, be short. I think I'll saw off your feet. PSYCHO!! I went thru this... my kids were the best ever, he never had boys, he could be this great stepdad to my boys and be involved in sports and stuff. Then it was, omg, you have KIDS! I can't be a stepdad to your boys!!! Uh, whatever, they would have hated you anyway, asshole. They don't NEED you, they have a father... and I don't need you anymore either.
October 2, 2010 - 10:03am (Reply to #56)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Abiding by a Relationship with My Child

"I know you think you love him, but is the real you, the nonbrainwashed you, truly attracted to a man who cannot ABIDE a relationship with a child? YOUR child? The woman he "loves?" Your child is a piece of you. JERK JERK JERK. Thank God he never got within one yard of your child." No, the real me, the non-brainwashed me knows that someone who did what he did isn't deserving of my attraction. He did get within one yard of my child - my child knew him as someone who I worked with. And in the beginning, during the idealization phase, the few times he interacted with her, he was very sweet and kind to her (talked to her, played soccer and wiffle ball with her, ran running races with her, etc). Of course, this was all a ruse to pull at my heart strings and I can see that now. I was stupid enough to believe, "aw, look at him, he's just a normal guy who has some doubts about having kids but I can see how sweet he is to [daughter] so he'll get over his normal guy insecurities." I had no clue that the sweetness toward HER was part of the seduction of ME. And yes - the Perfect Woman was expected to change on a dime. I could go into myriad examples of things he did to show he expected that of me. But ya know - he didn't do that to me while I was being idealized. And he never went through a protracted devaluation phase with me. It went staight from idealization to discarding - only, as you know, even the discarding wasn't full-fledged - it was instead another mind-F. And that mind-F was mainly made up of manipulations and expectations of me turning on a dime. As far as your experience Better Off - I know that we have so many similarities. So I'm using you as my guide .... I'm 11 months into the recovery process. I still feel like I'm far 'behind' in my recovery - I still am not indignant enough about what he did to me. I feel like I still am giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt. I guess that's the empath in me. How did you come to truly believe in your indignance and stop being empathetic to him? Thanks
October 2, 2010 - 12:01pm (Reply to #57)
better off
better off's picture

Well, my situation had a big

Well, my situation had a big difference... I AGREED to a friends only period of time, because he convinced me that he was really really confused about all this (and I truly thought this was the only time this had happened to him as it had to me), and he didn't know what to do.. he needed to "sort himself out, sort his life out" before he could go straight into a relationship with me, and of course I had similar feelings as well. And I couldn't bear to let go, and he didn't really let go either, he just ended the "romantic" part, and kept me at arm's length, no more IM, no more phone, no more private emails. We just, and this is so stupid in hindsight I almost can't bring myself to write it down...we just communicated LIKE THIS. On a forum. And he wanted me right there, that's for sure. Then occasionally he would throw me a bone and we'd talk...I had a rough situation going on in my real life and I could still talk to him about that stuff, and I still depended on him. We just couldn't talk about "us." And yet, he continued to be very affectionate with me and treated me like I was "special" to him over everyone else, etc etc... This sucked so bad I can't even tell you. He had basically broken up with me, I was CRUSHED, and yet I had to be Perfect Girl and be cool about it and just keep being patient and understanding while he "sorted himself out" and of course, eventually he would be ready, right? I hate telling this, I really do. Oh, and he was still leaving his wife, of course. Then it became apparent he was moving to another country... but that fucker kept leaving the door open, that it wasn't permanent, and he loved the U.S. and he really wanted to come back... etc etc. And I, being the world's most loving, understanding empath SUCKER, was going to be noble about it. I loved him too much to throw my arms around his ankles and beg him not to go. If we were meant to be, we'd get thru this period and do what we had to for our families, etc, and down the road... "down the road." Oh, and he was still leaving his wife, of course. Of course, I meant it, because when you do LOVE someone, you want the best for THEM and will sacrifice what you want for them if it's best... something he cannot comprehend. They moved, bought a huge house together and are still married. As they will be forever. Sidebar... even though we had our forum together, he discovered facebook.. and reconnected with old mates and stuff... and by God he was getting truckloads of supply from that, and he started ignoring me bigtime. I was at least able to learn from all this that he doesn't really care who he gets supply from, anyone paying attention to him is a drug, it doesn't have to be women. I ended up FB friends with him and that was difficult too... but I learned a bit more about what he's really like, so that was good. Okay, so I went thru a LOT of what you're going thru when I was still involved with him. After he left the country, he came back alone for a month to work on his house before selling it and to sell his stuff. (this is the man who did nothing for the previous 18 months.. this is the man whose wife supposedly would not let him be in a room by himself). So I went no contact, because it just hurt too damn much, and because I knew if he were alone he could suck me back in and then drop me without a thought when he went home. And I knew that it would kill me this time. I couldn't survive another D&D. So I wrote a goodbye letter, and I told him the truth, that I was still in love with him and didn't see that changing, that it was wrong for me to still be in contact and it hurt, that I had walk away, and that he would always be the love of my life. I wish I had never said that, but I did feel that way at the time. I unfriended him and everyone we knew in common. He did ask my close gf if I really unfriended her and she said yes... so I thought he was asking because he cared or something... but it was because he then brought in his new one. Someone I knew, that we all knew together from the forum... but even tho I unfriended that girl, we still talked every day. Unfriending her was part of the plan, because she too felt he might bait me on her wall, etc, and I would still see him, and I was trying to make a clean break of it. Well the flip side was she witnessed what was going on and we figured it out. And once I knew, KNEW that that motherf**ker had been dallying around with this other woman, behind my back, the whole time... I knew that every single thing he had said was f'ing LIE. That his confusion, and his wanting to sort it out, and his ambivalence, blah blah blah was all LIES. He had played me, and that was that. Indignant?? You bet your ass! And my anger then was more about that than even the initial seduction and lies, etc, it was believing and accepting his "anguish" and waiting. Waiting like a dog that had been put out back. Then I started reading everything I could and it became clearer and clearer what happened. I went through a very dark depression, I thought about suicide, it was horrible. It's horrible pain and there is nothing worse than it really, to be betrayed like this. How could someone who knew me so well, who saw and touched my inner soul DO THAT to me???? But... that's what he does. So it's been 18 months since I FIGURED IT OUT, and since I've been NO contact, not since he dumped me. I've questioned it as much as you have, I've somehow felt he cared about me in some immature way, I've told myself everything there is to say. I know it feels like someone is stabbing you with needles when you're told NO NO NO, they are inhuman and don't care... I know you want to believe... but you don't actually recover until you start believing it. TIME will make that better, I don't care anymore. It makes me mad sometimes, but it doesn't hurt like it used to. Does it still hurt sometimes?? Yes. Do I have triggers? Yes. But I have moved on and found other things to make me happy. I am happy again. It would be even better if I didn't come here, because here I am talking about it all the time. But it's helping people and if it makes what happened less in vain then that's good. :-)
October 2, 2010 - 12:43pm (Reply to #58)
Used
Used's picture

betteroff

my heart goes out to you..... no wonder your posts on the board keep me enthralled.... you realy have been there done that and worn the t shirt... i am going to write you something lovely I MUST UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS,BECAUSE ONLY THEN WILL I UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE BECOME. YOU HAVE BECOME AMAZING!!!. lovexxx
October 1, 2010 - 11:15pm (Reply to #50)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

inconsistencies

We've talked about this before...mine did the same thing: Him: "I want a daughter so bad...one that looks exactly like yours...she is so adorable with that eyes and smile...such a huge tribute to her mom." "I want another baby in a relationship that is RIGHT" (while gazing in my eyes.) "look at your daughter, I want one just like that!" Hmmmm....how does DNA work?? Then... "I would never want a girl" "I can't think of you 'that way' since you have been married and with children the whole time i've known you". I think he realized that he needs someone totally fawning over him and can't/doesn't want to compete with children!
October 2, 2010 - 10:59am (Reply to #55)
better off
better off's picture

Seduction

It's important to realize that he didn't mean the first part anymore than he meant the second part. The "I want a daughter so bad" part was just a big fat manipulative lie. At the exact same time he was probably telling someone who didn't have any kids that he never wanted any kids anyway and he was soooo glad she didn't have any. I know it's hard to realize that you have 23 years worth of lies to deal with... but you do.
October 2, 2010 - 10:01am (Reply to #51)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Competition with Children

"I think he realized that he needs someone totally fawning over him and can't/doesn't want to compete with children!" Yes, they do view children as competition. Here is a quote from my Ex N after the dumping: "I’m not really interested in spending a lot of time with a little girl, given that that I’ve gone out of my way to decide *not* to have children primarily for this reason, and given that I would jealously prefer to spend time with you and not you + daughter. And even if we were separate and alone in the apartment for the most part, I don’t think I could stop thinking about how she was in the next room over, or could pop in at any time with a problem." And here is a quote that is evidence of him setting himself up for a self-fulfilling prophecy situation in which he will later have a 'legitimate' excuse for sabotaging the relationship (he wrote this to me prior to us becoming intimate): "This is complicated. I wish I could say what I wanted out of life, but I've asked myself the same question (Marriage? Kids?) on and off over the last couple years, and am somewhat ambivalent on the subject. No answers come to mind, so I figure this is something that just has to marinate for a while and it will make sense at some point? So yes - I don't really know where this [our relationship] goes, and perhaps it may or may not prove to be compatible with my own life goals. So I guess if we were to get involved in an emotional & physical relationship, it's tough for me to say whether we would continue to be on the same page and get what each of us wanted out of the relationship. But I guess that's a risk I'm willing to take. I like that you are so open and honest with your husband about your intentions, and I trust that you will treat me the same. I'm (sometimes brutally) honest too. So good communication means that maybe there's a good shot that there are none of the misconceptions and misperceptions that plague so many couples."
October 2, 2010 - 11:14am (Reply to #53)
better off
better off's picture

Smoke and Mirrors

MORTY! NONE of this means anything. None of it. OMG does this guy like the sound of his own voice. This is just a total pile of BULLSHIT. Compatible with my "life goals." What a crock of shit! They HAVE NO life goals other than to use, abuse, manipulate, dominate, and control... and that's with whoever presents themselves as an opportunity. They are the ultimate opportunists. Morty, you have spent months agonizing over all this, and the situation with your daughter, and why he would say X and then say Y, and the pain of being rejected over this reason. But this is what you have to see through the fog: It doesn't matter. That's the reason he gave because that's the only reason he could MANUFACTURE. And, it's so perfect for a fucking narc, because he could give you a reason that YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT. So you're left stewing in misery and he's free to skip off scot free... because after all... didn't he SAY he might feel this way one day. What a prick. If you didn't have children, he would have dumped you. If you never wanted children, he would have dumped you. If you had sixteen children, he would have dumped you. If you were pregnant with his own child, he would have dumped you. This "relationship" had no chance. This "relationship" was doomed from the word go. In fact, there WAS NO "relationship" only the illusion of one. It was always always always going to end this way. Mine said the same SHIT about being willing to take a chance, the risk was worth it, because of me, because of what we had, because somehow we found each other and this was meant for our happiness... but in the end, it was like, now now, I always said you could never leave your family... (except for in between I was sending you house listings and making travel plans and talking about what prep school we could send your son to...) I spent plenty of time wondering "what if?" and thinking about what could have been different that would have had a different outcome... even it was just being willing to "stay" an affair and make that deal with myself (which I couldn't do)... but after reading so many stories, and writing so many posts, I realize that that would have made no difference either!! The play had an end, the script was already written, only I didn't know it, I didn't even know I was IN a play. Please let yourself put this to rest, about children and fertility... none of that made the slightest difference.
October 2, 2010 - 11:20am (Reply to #54)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

I Know

=(
October 2, 2010 - 11:01am (Reply to #52)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Morty - no kids

Your guy didn't want you as part of his life; he did not want a LIFE with you. He wanted to extract the pieces of you that he wanted, that would suite his purposes, and discard the rest. That is the way that mine made me feel. I think my N REALLY views kids as a threat. He is 51 now, and has NEVER gotten 1/2 way serious with a women who has had kids...and hardly ever dates a woman who has ever been married. He needs to be the sole focus of her life. How he can still find women to be semi-serious with at age 51 who has never had kids and mostly never been married is a mystery to me. It severely limits his pool of women...and really tells me that having someone who is capable of really idolizing him full time is more important that what the woman is really like.
September 30, 2010 - 6:24pm (Reply to #44)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Babies

Both my EXN's referred to having babies as: "pointless, a common pursuit, everyone does it." They know if you have a baby with them, they are no longer going to be the center of your universe and that terrifies them!
October 1, 2010 - 5:34pm (Reply to #47)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Wow, that's so classic,

Wow, that's so classic, according to the Sam V stuff! Having kids is "common" and nothing a narc does can EVER be considered "common" or run-of-the-mill, or ordinary, so no kids. Apart altogether from the issue of them taking attention off the narc once they are born....
October 1, 2010 - 12:08am (Reply to #46)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Children of Narcs

My maternal grandparents are Narcs... and that affected my mother deeply. My mother is still wounded by the fact that her mother saw her as an impediment, of being unwanted. 9 years ago, I found out that the ex-Psychopath professor and the OW had twins (a son and a daughter) What's bizarre is that there were REPEATED mentions of the ex-P's parents raising the kids, NO mention of the actual parents (the ex-P and the OW) It's as if the ex-P's parents were suddenly parenting... like orphans. As a friend of mine noted, the ex-P didn't sacrifice anything for the OW either. MOST of my professors who were parents in midlife had nannies or send their kids to daycare (or their wives would take the mommy track)... but they did NOT have their parents raise them.
October 1, 2010 - 12:03am (Reply to #45)
better off
better off's picture

Nice...

Nice...
September 30, 2010 - 10:09am (Reply to #27)
better off
better off's picture

I understand where you're

I understand where you're coming from, and this sort of thing is what leads to so much of the cognitive dissonance we experience. The narc I knew is highly intellectual, and very intuitive... and I've always said he would make a great therapist, if he actually cared about people. We could talk about movies and books like you described, and believe me we talked for hours and hours about what motivated people, and aspirations and inspirations, and FEELINGS, and trying to analyze and pick apart what was going on with some of the crazies in my life... I think part of his background was lots of counseling sessions with the wife... and he knew lots of lingo. And he admitted to some of his own passive aggressiveness... and yet, when you're married to someone with a lot of emotional problems, you can tend to act in a passive aggressive way because that's all you have left to "fight back" with when they are controlling everything with their dysfunctions. So, as always, his behavior always seemed to have to do with the mess he had going on at home, and we would talk often about how this stuff affected us and how we were both trying to get out of these patterns and be healthy people, blah blah. And he wasn't lying about all of that, because there were things I could verify independently about it. But the bottom line is, he really doesn't care. He doesn't care about anyone. He likes to pretend for a while, I think he did like having those conversations, etc, the analyzing and all, but at the end of the day, he doesn't CARE. It's all theory to them. He likes to THINK he cares, but he doesn't. And yours probably likes to THINK he cares too, he wants to BELIEVE he's this nice guy, but he doesn't want to have to DO anything to BE the nice guy. And he can go on and have the very same conversations and "meaningful" discussions with the very next person that crosses his path. And when things went south, the little bit I did try to tell him...he totally rejected. He was incensed that I said I felt like he used me. I told him I felt like I was a conquest, and he acted completely offended and told me never to use that word again. Six months later he brought it up AGAIN and said it was UNFAIR of me to say that to him and tried to spin the whole thing that it was all me...what.ever. I went NC soon after that. Here's an example of his "feeling and caring." We had long conversations about his strained relationship with his father, and he was so conflicted about it, and now his dad was near the end of his life, and blah blah blah blah. And we discussed all the stuff about how do you try to make peace with it, etc, and what he wanted to say while he still had time... and he's lived out of his home country for 20 years, etc...of course, I think we are BONDING over this, right, and this is deep stuff, and he feels like I understand him and have such great insight into all of it. But then I said, well... since you don't work, have plenty of money, and plenty of TIME..a nanny to look after the kids, who are older now anyway. Why don't you visit your family then.. if you feel like time is growing shorter, etc. Yes, they are far away, but you have the MEANS to spend this time, to focus on this. And why HAVEN'T you done it more anyway? And he says, after all this wounded heart drama... yeaaaah, but I'd have to go thru L.A., and it's such a hassle. ??? You'd have to go thru L.A.? This is the obstacle? Are you f**king kidding me???? So, all this deep emotion is FAKE. They even think it's true, they fake THEMSELVES out, so it's easy for us to be faked out. But the second they have to turn their hands over for ANYBODY, well, that emotion flies out the window. Because they can say the words but it doesn't penetrate. Seriously, Meadowbrook... do you think you need to explain to a grown man, someone who's over 40,... a married man.. that drawing you into an affair, and then pushing you off and leaving you hanging... and moving on to another woman.. and still dropping you hints to keep you engaged... is wrong and hurtful? I mean, if he DOESN'T know that on his own, how do you think you're going to explain it to him? And if you could, you would be the first person in the history of the universe to do it, and you would be the first person to get a true apology for it. He doesn't care about his wife, he doesn't care about his kids, he doesn't care about you, he doesn't care about the OW, that doesn't even KNOW his family is moving overseas WITH HIM, and he doesn't care about anyone else. Do you think it needs explaining that pretending to another woman that he's not moving with his family is wrong. Come on. And their supposed "knowledge" of feelings is similar to faith. A person can go to church, sing in the choir, recite the Bible chapter and verse, know every single story and word about Jesus, and not have one iota of it in their heart. Heck, you can be a PASTOR and PREACH on it and not really "know" Jesus. It's like that.
September 30, 2010 - 11:32am (Reply to #30)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Hey, I'm giving it my best

Hey, I'm giving it my best effort here to convince you to give me permission to send that message. Clearly not working. LOL!!! One of the really maddening things is we liked to talk about the series Mad Men (no pun intended). The main character is a NARCISSIST!!! We talked about Don Draper and his exploits and all the dynamics of the characters and how sad it was for poor Sal or the elementary school teacher and on and on. In our last phone conversation he made a very telling reference to Don's current elderly secretary and how the character acknowledged he got the "secretary I deserved". THe N laughed about how he has a new colleague in my same role who is not attractive like me and how that seems appropriate. It is literally taking every fiber of my being not to remind him of the emotional trauma inflicted on the previous secretary by Don Draper that made it necessary to get a new secretary!!! It's just so unbelievable to me that he can't or won't see the parallel. And I suppose I conceitedly think I could explain it so well to him that he would just HAVE to understand. Sigh. Your story about AW not wanting to be bothered to fly through L.A. is just SO telling, is it not? That just sums it all up. You must have done a mental triple-take when he said that! I'm listening very well to what you said about your conversations telling him you felt used and like a conquest. I had similar conversations to which he was SO offended. He brought it up again toward the end, before I knew the truth of the OW, saying how hurt he was I would think such a thing. Of course, now I would like to see how he could get around not acknowledging that he used me given what he knows I know. But I am taking your advice and trying to learn from your most terrible experience. That small part of my brain that is still sane is hanging onto the voice of reason I am hearing through all the fog in my head...
September 30, 2010 - 12:06pm (Reply to #31)
better off
better off's picture

The LA comment was

The LA comment was definitely an eye-opener. For one thing, I thought to myself, then why the hell are we even TALKING about it?! What a waste of time! It's like once years and years ago I worked in this hardware store for the summer, and people would come in and talk to you for 30 minutes about how to do a project, and then they'd say, well, I don't want to do all that, I'll just do XYZ [something that will never work but I am special and think I can defy the laws of physics and chemistry]. And we'd think, then why the HELL did you come in here and ask for advice??? Moron. "I'm not going to do all that sanding first." Okay, have fun watching the paint peel, you dumbass. Then I guess they find their supply object (wife) and complain about their paint-peeling troubles and how no one would help them! LOL So it was a turning point, because I began to see that all these "meaningful" talks didn't really mean anything at all.
September 30, 2010 - 12:44pm (Reply to #32)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

one last feeble attempt...:-)

We've established that they are unreachable for the most part. But are you glad that you at least let him know you felt he used you and you were a conquest? I'm just curious because even though I don't think they ultimately care or truly take ownership I wonder if it helps US. I had the same experience telling the exN that I felt used and a "notch on his belt". He was so offended. He brought it up later, and I was trying to extricate myself on a good note so as not to be on his bad side, so I said, "I was just saying that to demonize you in my mind to make it easier". That seemed to appease him. He seemed very relieved that I would not go off into the sunset thinking negatively about him. He wanted to play out that "story" of the dashing man who leaves a trail of heartbroken women who will always pine for him. puke I guess that's why I am so interested in just letting him know what I think of him. The idea that he waltzes off thinking I still think he's a great guy just irks me.
September 30, 2010 - 12:54pm (Reply to #33)
better off
better off's picture

No, I forbid it.

That's my new motto, haha. NIFI He will waltz off thinking he's a great guy no matter what you do. If he feels "bad" he will run to some new or past supply to tell him how great a guy he is. Problem solved! We think they are so complicated, but they are simple. They APPEAR complicated, but they are simple simons. No, I am not glad at all that I told him that. I wish I could take back SIX MONTHS of things I said. I wish I had never let him see me cry or know he hurt me. Hurting me and breaking my heart made him feel powerful and like he got his balls back after his wife cheated on him. Look how great he was, this woman is broken-hearted over him. That will show her. That will show them all. Half their "offendedness" is just that they are NOT going to admit that. Hey, you're right, I was just using you. Sorry! Would that even make you feel BETTER? NO! I wish I had said, hey, it was fun and all, but let's not get carried away about what it meant. I was obviously having a midlife crisis and grasping at straws. Now that the dust is settled I realize how crazy it all was!! You know?! I'm SO glad it didn't go any further! Aren't you! THAT'S what I wish I'd said.
September 30, 2010 - 1:17pm (Reply to #36)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Well, I wouldn't want to let

Well, I wouldn't want to let you down, Better Off. At this point your opinion matters more than that of this doofus narc. (wow spellcheck didn't show doofus with a little red underline thingy so I guess it's a real word. Oops "thingy" got a red underline....sorry, a little ADD kicking in there...) Anyway, I definitely DO NOT want him to know I have been heartbroken. I did, at one point say something about how I was relieved it was going to be over and done with. He seemed bothered by that. And every time I've spoken with him since I've told him how great life is going and how happy I am to be home with my kids, etc.... (that part is true) I've even "blipped" happy songs, nothing plaintive or full of woe. Unfortunately, the OW I talked to knows how upset I've been and I can just see it now, her trying to "help" him by making him understand how much he has hurt others. "See what you did to poor Meadowbrook, she's a mess". Gee, great. No more talking to her! Oh, but there was such a good line in Mad Men a few seasons ago that he and I specifically talked about. I fantasize about using it on him as one last dig to get the point across. Don Draper had an affair with the wife of a famous comedian (similar to Lenny Bruce). The husband finds out and confronts Don at a party. He said to Don, "you're garbage, and you know it". This is a show about a narc (Don) which makes that line freakin' perfect because they do believe deep down they are garbage which is the root of their personality disorder - or at least for most of them. No? I can't just send that one teeny weeny little message? I know, I know, you forbid it. :-)
September 30, 2010 - 1:30pm (Reply to #40)
better off
better off's picture

It's like drugs...

Oh, man, that would feel great, wouldn't it? Except he's a narc. You're garbage and you know it... SUPPLY! I'm as cool as Don Draper!!! That's how they think. In your mind you will have gotten your lick in, and walk away satisfied. You won't be satisfied. Well, for a little bit you will be. Then what will happen? It will NEVER END! A) He will ignore this. You won't know HOW he responded. This will bother you. Then you will get upset that he is snubbing you. Somehow, if he ignores the comment, you will feel that he somehow has the last word. And you will obsess some more about how to not let him have the last word by ignoring you. THEN you will want him to contact YOU so YOU can ignore HIM. OR even worse, you will start feeling REMORSE for having called him garbage, because after all, he wasn't ALWAYS garbage was he, and you loved him, maybe you still do, and now you've said he's garbage after all those good times and now he'll never contact you again!!! What if he was just trying to make things better and was going to apologize and now I called him garbage and ruined it!!! Maybe I should apologize for calling him garbage!!!! This is what happens. Or option B) He will come back with something so insulting and nasty and hurtful about how you are nothing but a scorned woman and he always knew you'd turn out like this and thank GOD he doesn't have to deal with you anymore because you're a psycho!!!!! Boo. OR...OPTION C YOU COULD JUST KEEP IGNORING HIM!!!!! That's the only way to win.
September 30, 2010 - 2:14pm (Reply to #41)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Oh great and mighty Better Off!

Okay, you win. I will do as you command, oh mighty Better Off! LOL!!! Such great analysis. When you said he would feel cool like Don Draper that did the trick. I guess I got my wish that he would try and contact me, leaving me with the option to ignore him. I'll have to let that be my little V for victory in this case. It's still a great line, though, isn't it? Such a shame. Maybe I'll write a book about this whole experience and use it there.
September 30, 2010 - 1:26pm (Reply to #37)
Used
Used's picture

meadowbank

forbidden by betteroff and all the gang....... better off is my yardstick at the moment.... she writes.... i take it on board[ no pun intended] better off rules yah!!!my exh and narc would hate better off.... cos how dare there little supplier[me]... be looking up to somebody else.....ARRRRRRRRR.....and why waste your time, she,s right they couldnt give a fig.... how much they have hurt us as long as they have....
September 30, 2010 - 2:08pm (Reply to #38)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Used

You're right I can't let the gang down! Thanks for your encouragement. I really appreciate it.
September 30, 2010 - 2:26pm (Reply to #39)
Used
Used's picture

meadowbank

well done..... i dont know if this helps.. when i get wobbly i dont think of the going back... i think of the aftermath of going back... that well keeps my feet on the ground, myexh used to be here having a cuppa, and i used to get such a terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach, when he would go, i found my self with my arms wrapped round my body rocking backwards and forwards... if narc came backinto my life and we met up.... i would come home and do the excact same thing again...... why would we want to put our selfs thru this agony... if i wanted torture.... well put it this way... i self harmedwhen i was back with both of them ...... 1 year nc exhx. 111/2mnths nc with narc.... i havent self harmed for 2years.... since the day i looked and thought i am done...now i will get out and did.. sorry for rambling..keep strong keep ncxx
September 30, 2010 - 12:58pm (Reply to #34)
better off
better off's picture

you're almost there...

You said, We've established that they are unreachable for the most part. Just leave off the "for the most part." ;-) I think God has a message for you today, Meadowbrook, because there are several different people posting today who just had to tell the narc how they felt, and they all got acid thrown back in their face. Don't do it.
September 30, 2010 - 1:01pm (Reply to #35)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

And I have been dutifully

And I have been dutifully reading those posts as part of my therapy!
September 30, 2010 - 11:14am (Reply to #28)
outoftheblue
outoftheblue's picture

On the other hand, LAX is a

On the other hand, LAX is a pain in the ass. Hope that made you laugh :) He sounds charming.
September 30, 2010 - 12:16pm (Reply to #29)
better off
better off's picture

Ha. It's not a pain in the

Ha. It's not a pain in the ass if you want to go get laid or go on vacation. He'd move a mountain if somebody was going to tell him how awesome he was for it. He managed to fly through LAX a few times to please himself. He used to pretend he was being hounded at home and couldnt' get any privacy from his wife, that he was divorcing (roll eyes) in his 8,000 sq ft home, to have a five minute IM chat about something. She stayed right by his side because she was so insecure. And then after moving overseas he turned right around, went through LAfuckingX AGAIN and came back to the U.S. for a month and lived in that house all alone. In the entire country by himself. After claiming he couldn't be in a ROOM alone. Well, I'm sure he wasn't alone, but... He said he was spending a lot of time on craiglist selling off his stuff. The millionaire. Right. Yes, charming. That was when I went NC, when he arrived back on American soil. P.S. I did laugh. :) And he's a pain the ass too.
September 30, 2010 - 9:33am (Reply to #15)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Word Salad and high functioning

In my first relationships...Narcs...I could never put my finger on it. But, in my last relationship word salad became very very predominate in that we were both very idealistic. It took me some years to realize that he wanted me for my brain/ideas, and it took me some years to realize that he did not have any. Apparently I was the idiot that had never done anything right. Yet when it came down to brass knobs, what I had done turned out to be a little bit significant. High functioning Narcs will bleed you, and you will not even realize when they are doing it. Like me, you will probably think that they respect your opinion. They probably do, but do not EVER expect the credit.

Nevergoback

September 30, 2010 - 9:51am (Reply to #16)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

What you are describing

What you are describing sounds so familiar. I remember saying funny things to him and him turning around and using it as a FB status update or a theme for a blog post. I could tell him something interesting someone said or did and he would immediately comment on how he could use that in a story he was working on. Or he would constantly ask for my advice and opinion on whatever it was he was doing or producing in terms of writing or whatever. He would ask me for financial advice or advice about how to handle something in his job. I, of course, was happy to just give and give and give. Ugh. You are right, I thought he valued my opinion which made me feel special. But really he was just bleeding me dry and before I realized what had happened I had given everything and he had given absolutely NOTHING. And I mean, nothing. Well, except maybe a little word salad in the form of emails that I now laugh at.
September 30, 2010 - 10:16am (Reply to #17)
better off
better off's picture

A story he's working on...

Ah, yes. And he doesn't just mean stories he's writing.. he means the story he's working on = the story of his life. We use the phrase "life story" but in their case it is indeed a story. And they need help with the story-telling. Their story is not only fictional... it's PLAGIARIZED. Losers.
September 30, 2010 - 10:58am (Reply to #20)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

stupid little notebook

He carried around a little notebook that he used to write down ideas for stories. When I spoke with him about almost anything I could see him making mental notes. I think he literally viewed me and our "relationship" (not an appropriate word in this case, but just go with it) as fodder for the "life story" and something that he may literally write about someday. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he someday produces a book where he uses all the things that he has done and the reactions of victims as part of the plot and dialogue. He's got a book deal and I'm just waiting to see myself somewhere in the pages of a book at Barnes & Noble!!! If anyone has seen "Deconstructing Harry" just remember the scene where the exGF screams at Woody Allen's character about how he pathetically changed the name of the sister from "Jane" to "Janet". What you've written elsewhere, Better Off, about actors on a stage is SO true in my particular case. I feel like I was just an actor playing a part and he would coldly observing my pain and anguish while making little notes in his stupid notebook.
September 30, 2010 - 11:21am (Reply to #24)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Deconstructing Harry

Interesting you mention that. During my D&D, a friend of mine told me to see "Deconstructing Harry" because she said the Woody Allen character was just like the ex-Psych professor. It was during my freshman year, one of my classmates said that the ex-P thought that because I was emotional (I was mourning the loss of my grandfather), he saw me as a cartoon character, that he saw me as a cartoon. Of course, with the loss I just suffered, that HURT. The sad irony (and this is at the ex-P's expense) is that my therapist said that the ex-P sounds like a fictional character. Gives a whole new meaning to that book title "Narcissism and the False Self",doesn't it? "I felt like I was an actor playing a part"-The ex-P made a BIG DEAL about roles. Whenever I asked him what he FELT about me, he'd go into talking about roles, as if he were some director. He made a big deal about how being a teacher was one of his roles, along with being a brother and a son, and I was only supposed to focus on his role as teacher. I told him that if he wanted the ROLE of a teacher instead of be one, he should've moved to Los Angeles to be with his gf and get an agent. I sarcastically suggested acting to him, because he was so big into roles.
September 30, 2010 - 11:42am (Reply to #25)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Now that you mention it the

Now that you mention it the exN talked about "roles" too. He once commented how he appreciated me for the various roles I played for him - friend, lover, work colleague. At the time it just seemed like a banal compliment. But now I see it differently.
October 2, 2010 - 11:42am (Reply to #26)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Role-playing

Role-playing being connected with D&D.... at least Dungeons&Dragons is harmless because everybody KNOWS it's fictional. The ex-Psych professor reminded me of one of those World of Warcraft addicts who confuses fantasy with real life. Maybe he should watch those movies "Monster Camp" and "Darkon" about people who do RPG... and some get very engrossed in it. Wait, that would take too much EFFORT and HONESTY on his part! If the ex-P had stayed in shape, he could be giving Colin Firth a run for his money. Why? In the opening scene of "A Single Man" (about a man grieving his longtime boyfriend's death),Firth's character says- "My role's name is George. George is my role." George (Colin Firth) sees himself as a role instead of a person. But he's got empathy and CARES about his students. The ex-P should stop playing professor. If he wants to play a professor, there's LA. But that would take EFFORT and HONESTY.
September 30, 2010 - 11:12am (Reply to #21)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Lollololololool. Don't

Lollololololool. Don't anyone take anything away here, but mine told people that I was with him so I could write HIS story. Must be having a rethink/panic now...lol

Nevergoback

September 30, 2010 - 11:44am (Reply to #22)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

his story

Toward the end I told him I might write a story and he got this really panicked look on his face. He seemed very concerned about this because public ridicule would probably cause him to shrivel up and die. I told him I would change his name. ;-)
October 5, 2010 - 12:05am (Reply to #23)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Name change

Yup I told him I would change his name to protect the guilty..lol

Nevergoback

September 30, 2010 - 10:23am (Reply to #18)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Oh yeah

Mine often used the phrase "life experience" like he knew what it meant. The problem with that was every time he uttered it, people believed that he knew what it meant. lol Not so naive now.

Nevergoback

September 30, 2010 - 10:32am (Reply to #19)
better off
better off's picture

Ha. Yeah, he's referring to

Ha. Yeah, he's referring to someone ELSE'S life experience that he's tried to appropriate as his own.
September 30, 2010 - 8:04am
outoftheblue
outoftheblue's picture

Chinese

Ha mine lives in HK and that's where I saw him so your post just cracked me up!!!!!! Mandarin or English, we were never speaking the same language.
September 30, 2010 - 10:18am (Reply to #12)
better off
better off's picture

Hmm, the exN used to live in

Hmm, the exN used to live in HK too. Great place for money-grubbing liars.
September 30, 2010 - 5:14pm (Reply to #13)
outoftheblue
outoftheblue's picture

HK narc pack

Hmmmm is there something to this? An expat community of narcs running wild in HK? Mine never lived in the US. Wonder if they compare notes.
September 30, 2010 - 7:26am
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

adding my 2 cents, for what it is worth

funny to, because I remember trying to explain to my EN about an accident happening and he was wrapped up in a blanket, like a little boy with his body and head covered and I was kneeling down besides him, like a mother, explaining what the word"accident" means and I do not think he fully understood the concept, it was very sad in a way and strange for a grown man not to process this common word.....................
September 30, 2010 - 7:46am (Reply to #5)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

onwithmylife

That is so scary. I remember the reverse, too, during the couple of months when I really thought he was in love with me. He totally did not know how to express this. There was one time when I was cooking him dinner at my place and he took me and sat me down ON THE FLOOR in the kitchen and got tears in his eyes and said, "I have never felt like this before." But he didn't know what it was or what to say.
September 30, 2010 - 10:45am (Reply to #6)
better off
better off's picture

One time my husband tried

One time my husband tried taking anti-depressants, and he didn't like the way they made him feel. He said they gave him "this weird euphoric feeling." I was like...ummm, happiness? lol He stopped taking them. Go figure.
September 30, 2010 - 11:40am (Reply to #10)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Oh my goodness, that is

Oh my goodness, that is priceless. Sad, but priceless.