Parasite Free

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August 8, 2010 - 4:51pm (Reply to #55)
Aliveagain
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Its funny that you say that

Its funny that you say that actually - hence my comment re good in theory. My own FRIENDS didn't believe me! Said I was exaggerating and reading into things that didn't exist. That he was a great guy. So yes, I agree.
August 8, 2010 - 7:43am
helldweller
helldweller's picture

Lim

I just read your story and wanted to say I am very sorry you have been through this. My problems really started with my marriage, which I just could not bear to leave, so I became involved with someone else before I was divorced. It opened up a nightmare world, so I understand what you were going through. After my divorce, I met my narc, who had obviously been sent from Heaven as a reward for being so forgiving to my husband for so long. He was everything to my daughters and me, but right before we were about to get engaged, he took in a four year old foster child without warning and turned his back on us. Just walked away and stared lying about having to work all the time so just the two of them could go to parties, out with friends, on his boat, etc. together. He no longer even wanted to be with us on Christmas or Thanksgiving. He wanted everyone to think he was a single parent rasing an orphaned. Now here were my own children losing a father figure twice in two years. He couldn't have care less. He said, "Oh, please. Tell them to grow up" when I told him they were heartbroken because he didn't seem to care about them anymore.
August 8, 2010 - 12:04am
broken23
broken23's picture

They are all the same. I do

They are all the same. I do not understand why they need to destroy all existing relationships before they leave you all alone. Kids, marriage, boyfriends, it seems like there is always a excuse. I was not flowing with joy in my relationship but was ok, until the came along, and filled my head with how much better he could treat me and understands me. At first I wasnt willing to let him in my life, but he called me selfish and constantly made me feel like I had to give up my relationship right away. When i leave everything for him, he cant commit because hes not sure. What is their problems....ugh.
August 9, 2010 - 8:09pm (Reply to #46)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

I feel sick you guys

I had no idea that attempting to break up a marriage and then dumping the woman after she's changed her life for him was a common N trait. I am sick, sick, sick. But also, feel oddly at peace - like now I know that I was truly targeted and didn't stand a chance against someone who spent his entire life perfecting manipulation.
August 9, 2010 - 9:25pm (Reply to #49)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Morty amen

same thing here. my n was a master manipulator...move cross country, changed my whole life, took a new job, etc, etc....and he couldn't even respect me enough to not betray our relationship. Forget about "dumping" me. Even while he pretended we were business partners, he betrayed me behind my back (after I got him three jobs in 6 months!!!!!!!) and disrespected me. It is unreal when I think about that.
August 9, 2010 - 9:04pm (Reply to #47)
Lim
Lim's picture

Morty it's true...

All of us were targets and none of us stood a chance in hell. We just had no clue what was coming at us or what we would be up against once they dropped off the face of the earth. I'm a pretty smart woman and I never, ever, ever have seen an individual behave the way the N's do.
August 9, 2010 - 9:26pm (Reply to #48)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

LIm

same here. I'm a pretty smart woman and would have had no idea a Man (N) could manipulate like this to such precision. It all seems so believable...but we do have god's gift of the gut feeling and the red flag. By thankful that your N moved on so quickly, because it should make your NC all the more easier. It will help eliminate that 10% hope that we cling onto that drags this on for decades!
August 8, 2010 - 7:41am (Reply to #45)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

The vortex of destruction

My ex-Psychopath professor wanted it to be the same. Early on, he EXPECTED me to dump my friends, family and faith by the sidelines for him (maybe the OW was willing to do it-after all, he did marry her) But I didn't. I was skeptical. Who was he to judge my friends when I barely knew him? Who was I to dump my family when I didn't know his? I kept my friends. Believe me, they were my lifeline after he D&D'd me. It's very predatory. During the D&D, he wanted to turn everyone against me- classmates, his colleagues--he wanted me to feel outnumbered and overwhelmed, to be socially ostracized because I had made the unspeakable mistake of falling in love with him. It's like he wanted me to feel completely abandoned, to be despairing to the point of suicide. What sort of teacher WANTS his student to be depressed/suicidal?
August 8, 2010 - 12:41am (Reply to #32)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

broken23

because they are predators. Same thing here...I was unhappy, but dealing with it. N comes along and fills my head with how he would be there for me emotionally and how he was ideal for me. I pulled back and did not contact him for 3 months....and he kept coming after me saying that he missed me and blah blah blah. Fast forward three years later and I've been DD.
August 8, 2010 - 1:00am (Reply to #33)
broken23
broken23's picture

Sigh. I know i pulled back

Sigh. I know i pulled back so many times and he squirmed his way back in. It wasnt until he he had his 21 year old lined up he left. as many times as i think about it, it baffles me. i mean if they are going to leave us and cheat on us, does it really matter if are seeing other people. why the need to first convince us they are the love of our lives and of the happily ever after.
August 8, 2010 - 1:08am (Reply to #34)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

why does it matter?

Well, my therapist tried to explain this the other week. She said that they always need to feel like they are on the top of the pile. It is not as if they will take action on anything, but they need to know that they are 1st in your life (and 1st in the lives of every other woman in his life!) That started to make more sense to me....because I also wondered, why did he get upset anytime I said anything about doing something with my husband if he didnt' care for me? And why did he always want to know what I was doing with my husband if he didn't care for me? Her answer - because he needed to know he was 1st, 2nd, 3rd in your mind and husband was a distance 10th. This makes him feel safe and needed and comfortable. However....he also needs to be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the lives of the other 6 women he is involved with! It doesn't mean he is going to move forward with anyone! Sick.
August 18, 2010 - 6:01pm (Reply to #44)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Ranking!

What really struck me about your post is the ranking the N did versus your husband. My N got a big job offer in another country and was telling me about it while I tried to remain calm and neutral (I was on to him at that point even without understanding narcissism exactly). He proceeded to tell me I should move to that country too and I could bring the "two cute ones" - meaning my two little kids. I told him that was ridiculous of course - impossible, etc... He proceeded to talk about how in his view my kids rank #1 for me, then my father #2 then him #3 then my husband farther down the line. I was mortified by those comments. He really showed his true colors at that moment and I was stunned without knowing exactly why it was so upsetting. Then later that day he felt the need to comment on his sexual abilities versus my husband and imply he ranks higher. First of all, it wasn't even true but he just HAD to point that out as his view because it made him feel superior to my husband. I left work early that day, cried all the way home, cried all evening and into the morning. I finally confessed everything to my husband. I think I was pushed over the edge at the realization that I had not only totally compromised myself and my moral values but I had totally sold out my husband to an evil man who was only looking for the score, the ego boost and the feeling of being superior to another man. I know for a fact he is working on doing the same thing to another married woman right now and I can see it happening online. Makes me sick but I feel powerless to stop him and his predatory ways.
August 8, 2010 - 2:12pm (Reply to #38)
better off
better off's picture

"It's not as if they are

"It's not as if they are going to take action on anything.." How true!! That's the last thing they are ever going to do. Unfortunately, with a narc, you don't get to see how true that is until enough time has gone by to see how empty their ideas and their "plans" are. Mine would just pull shit out of thin air, I think, but say it like he was really planning on this or that. But it was just yada yada yada... Once he even said sometimes he would get off the phone with me, and think, now why did I say "that", I don't think that? Of course I have no idea which things he said that he was referring to!! All of it, probably. He doesn't even know he's doing it, though... he's just BULLSHITTING all the time. blah blah blah and yet we think it MEANS something. Ha. Nothing he ever said MEANT anything, whether it was "I love you, you're my soulmate sent from heaven" or whether it was "I like ham and cheese on rye." I got extremely upset one time, because he was on this trip... and we were on IM, and after months of discussing him moving to my city when he divorced, he says he's thinking of maybe getting a job at this firm in California, etc, etc... and I was dumbfounded. Just dumbfounded, and I withdrew a bit, and later when he wondered why, I told him I must have misunderstood his intentions, and that he had other plans for his life. He was totally confused by my saying this. He was like, oh THAT? Oh, I was just talking, brainstorming... and if I did work there it would just take a resignation letter to wrap it up and come to you in City X. Ok, sure. Just move to another state for a while until you move to mine? WTF? But he really was "just talking." Just like all the other stuff he said to me and I took seriously. Hey, man, he was just talking. As you said, it's not as if he's going to TAKE ACTION. Ugh, what an ass. (And he never moved ANYWHERE anyway... he just trots along behind his wife, and she decides all that stuff. Yes, they are still together, three years later, living in another country now.)
August 11, 2010 - 10:59pm (Reply to #43)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

A little less talk&a lot more action

My ex-P professor was ALL TALK. He had grand plans of writing books of philosophy (they've never happened), of being a famous philosopher (it hasn't happened) And oh, those European summer vacations probably were all talk. He even talked about us putting off being friends until AFTER graduation(!) No wonder he was shocked when I told him that I had always considered him a friend... and took it as some cosmic insult to his godhood. Yeah, he thought there was some waiting period between having a teacher/student relationship to one of equals. He wasn't going to see me as an equal till some time in the future... He had claimed that his Wittgenstein book was going to be published in a decade (it would've been published in 2006, if he had been serious about it) He put "1998" on his 1996 lecture because he claimed that was when it would be published (it wasn't published till 2001) So much wishful thinking. NO ACTION.
August 8, 2010 - 2:49pm (Reply to #42)
faithinthefuture
faithinthefuture's picture

OMG!

I moved back to my home state over 2 yrs ago after being in Ns home state over 11 yrs(transferred there w/the promise from my XH if i agreed to move away from my family WE would be a family) So after I moved here the N kept on me about asking him to move here. Told him YOU have to want to do that on your own. It's not my decision.(At first I didn't want him to move here to be honest....i wanted time for me) Last yr he came to visit & said I want to be w/you I don't want to be where I am I am sick of the small town BS & I want us to make it work. My daughter who hated it in my home state was moving back to his state(where she grew up) & couldn't stand the N soo he wouldn't move here until she was gone. Then he gets drunk one nite smashes his truck(blamed it on bad tires) & txts me I am on my way baby. Tell your kids I don't want to be away from you any longer. I was estatic & txtd him back..Are you serious!? :-) He replyed..are you fucking crazy?! NO! I called him up and told him he was the meanest f'n person i had ever met for playing that head game w/me. He laughed. WTF was I thinking to ever let him move here!!!!! He's gone now. For 4 1/2 months. Thank God! But still I fell for the lies and I believed. "I can be grateful for being shown what I don't want, that I deserve love and it will come into my life" LMAO!!! And you are so right! They mean NOTHING of what they say. i loved your comment about the ham & cheese! That's going to make me laugh all day!
August 8, 2010 - 2:28pm (Reply to #40)
Used
Used's picture

yep yep

in the middle of watching tv, my nh would say yep, yep, i would say what, and he goes i was thinking that ive just scored the winning goal in the world cup, and if i mentioned again he would say ive never said that, the nf used to do exactly the same thing, and he told me he had conversations in his head, with himself, biegn the questioner and the answerer, the point is what they both had in common, was they done nothing, i had to do everything including thier thinking for them, and when i made a good suggestion, they like they ran with it and it became thier brainwave, never mine. most of them should have never left their mother,s knee, thats why i believe they go back [or try] to supply b/c they feel like they are going back home to mum.
August 8, 2010 - 4:55pm (Reply to #41)
better off
better off's picture

Haha... mine moved NEXT DOOR

Haha... mine moved NEXT DOOR to his mum. lmao.
August 8, 2010 - 2:20pm (Reply to #39)
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

They talktalktalk

but same here, just because they say it doesn't mean it means squat. This was a real drawback in business let me tell you--all enthusiasm, but he'd get bored and move on to the next exciting thing, leaving collaborators going WTF? Where he did follow through was in the seduction game. Suddenly there he was very reliable as he was reeling in--on time complete with clean underwear and socks! No way he'd miss a date.
August 8, 2010 - 9:01am (Reply to #35)
Lim
Lim's picture

They can't make a commitment

These idiot N's have no idea how to survive on their own. My N told me his two biggest fears were being alone (red flag!) and developing a debilitating disease (little does he know he already has it!). He wasn't concerned about losing his wife or kids or me. It was being alone. Thus, the constant need for overlap. What an @ss. He texted me this morning at 6:48 a.m. and said 'Doing o.k. Wedding was nice. It was fun.' I don't care!!!! I'm not responding. If he keeps it up, I will be texting his wife to say, "Look, call off your narcissist. He chose to stay with you. Tell him to stop contacting me." And trust me, I will do it. I'm a very strong woman who doesn't take likely when I (or my kids) am f*cked with. I feel sorry for her. She's been putting up with him for 20 years and has lost all of her confidence and self-esteem. I thank God that he was watching out for me and the N backed out when he did. Reading all of these posts has opened my eyes to what I was really dealing with, yet he kept clouding my judgement so I couldn't see it. Everytime I read something new, a lightbulb goes off and I recall the very exact things that you all are going through. They are true con-artists.
August 8, 2010 - 2:51pm (Reply to #37)
Used
Used's picture

lim

what does she think she has him cos he married her no chance, so he is that happy he is texting you, everything they do is for affect and if it doesnt affect you, they think i wish i hadnt done it[married] now, she isnt even bother, my exh, still use to phone me to tell me he was bieng hit on left right and centre, i used to say get in there my dear, you are single now, he shouted whatever and banged the phone down, poor little lad, wasent mummy jealous oh bless.
August 8, 2010 - 2:38pm (Reply to #36)
better off
better off's picture

Better to just block his

Better to just block his number... I wouldn't involve myself in their little sick dance... for whatever reason she stays with a serial cheater, and for whatever reason he stays with her. The straightest path to overcoming it is to truly go NC and leave them in their cesspool. But that's easier said than done, I know.
August 6, 2010 - 8:36pm
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Heal Thyself

Lim - I am so very sorry for your pain. So much of your experience is similar to mine. I haven't been able yet to write my story and I applaud your courage in doing so. Please excuse my presumption - but I would like to offer one piece of advice. I too was married while I had my relationship with N and my husband too is a wonderful man. My relationship came after my husband and I agreed to separate but continue living together for financial reasons and for my daughter. Even during my relationship with N, my husband was still my best friend and for reasons that are too complicated to get into now, he knew I had to pursue a relationship with N and he gave his blessing. At any rate, 2 months after the D&D, I tried to force myself to make an attempt to rekindle my marriage. It was partly out of guilt and partly out of simply needing someone to protect me because I was so unbelievably vulnerable. It was the wrong thing to do for both me and my husband. I was not a) healed, nor was I b) self-aware enough about what I wanted for my future to be comfortable in my own skin, never mind be comfortable in a marriage that had withered on the vine over the past 10+ years. I had to rescind my willingness to rekindle our marriage and that hurt my husband even further. I spent the next 7 months healing myself. I read any and everything I could on both NPD and bi-polar (my N was diagnosed with bi-polar at 15 and I strongly suspect that condition is co-morbid with NPD in him). I also read lots of books about healing after a failed relationship, particularly an addictive one, as well as self-affirming books like Steven Covey's First Things First. I decided to pursue the 2nd career I've always wanted and at the same time, focused on spending more time with my daughter. I put myself first, then my little girl and purposely put my husband in third place. I told him I was doing so and why - because I would never be a good sort of anything for him, whether it be best friend or wife, unless I selfishly put myself first for the first time in my life (at the age of 42!). It was not easy and I had to do a lot of hard work and introspection, but I've really made some breakthroughs. I am at the point now where I'm 90% there. I will never be completely over what happened to me - a part of me will always love the Ideal Guy persona that my N projected. But I know now that he wasn't real. I believe that I will be 100% there, and therefore able to commit to rekindling my marriage, or at least try real hard to, when I can honestly say to myself that if my N were to contact me (I've been NC 5+ months), I would simply not respond. I can't honestly say that yet but I'm close. So, that was my long-winded way of saying - give yourself time to heal. Don't force anything with your husband. If he's the man that it seems like he is, he will be patient and will be by your side, even if in a platonic friendly way, while you engage a personal quest for healing and self-discovery. And you'll come out the other side better equipped to be the woman you want to be and perhaps the wife you want to be. Or, you may decide that you don't want to be a wife anymore for very legitimate reasons. And that's OK too. You and your husband BOTH contributed to the marriage fizzling, not just you. Just like your N's behavior toward you was in no way your fault. I hope this helps. It helped me to write it! ;-)
August 7, 2010 - 9:23pm (Reply to #30)
Lim
Lim's picture

Thank you Morty!

It's amazing how similar so many of our stories are. My husband and I start marriage counseling this week. I did not make any promises, but told him I would give it my all. I applaud you for having the courage to find yourself. I was married at 18 and we have been married 24 years. I, too, am 42 (must be the age!). I know I married way too young and did not get to experience single life as a young woman. Yes, the N came at a very vulnerable time and my husband even agreed that he was partly to blame because we both pushed each other away. We have a long road ahead of us. The relationship with the N just ended a week ago so it is still very fresh. I am able to function and am doing well in that regard (thank God for Mom's happy pills!), but the thoughts of him loom non-stop--both positive, but mostly negative. And today I got a text from him asking how I was doing. I didn't respond right away and when I didn't, he texts, "So you can call, but I can't ask. o.k." It's their way of controlling. I replied, "Doing well." Shouldn't have at all, mistake number one, but I didn't want him to think that I am sitting around pining over him. I greatly appreciate your thoughts. This forum has been a lifesaver for me. I just can't believe so many of these nutwhacks exist in the world.
August 6, 2010 - 8:47pm (Reply to #9)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Morty

I love your post! My situation is similar too - a 23 year marriage that never had an emotional componet, being very vulnarable...and I've never felt like I could honestly commit to working on my marriage, becuase I've always wanted things to work with N. My husband has stood by my side, too, knowing about N. He wants to make it work still. But I've just never felt like I could be honest about working on anything. I feel so trapped in this awful place. I too feel like I just need time alone to heal and find myself. I feel sooo lost. How did you accomplish this time for recovery? did you still live with your husband? Separate rooms? how did you carve out the time? I just feel like I have no privacy at home to do this kind of reading and journaling - it would all be found. Many times, I just want to move out to do this - but can't imagine leaving my children for "mom's self discovery!" . It would also be difficult financially, of course, but if that was the only barrier, it would be worht it!
August 7, 2010 - 9:08pm (Reply to #10)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Love of My Life

Thanks and I'm glad my post helped you. You asked how I accomplished time for my recovery ... a little background. My husband has a disability that requires him to spend a lot of time alone in a dark room. There are severe limitations on what he can do physically and he can only spend so much time with either me or our daughter before he needs to rest alone. This is what contributed to the lack of sex in our marriage. We stopped having sex in 2002 because his disability hampered his ability to perform and he was embarrassed about it. And I accepted it because I felt bad for his condition and didn't want to stress him out. We have not slept in the same bedroom since 2003 because he can't sleep in a bed. So, our marriage has always included a lot of alone time for each of us. That coupled with the fact that both H and I are very private. He would never read my journal or snoop on my computer, nor would he poke into the self-help books that I read unless I decided to share stuff with him. After I was D&Dd, my N tried to convince me that I needed to leave my husband (HA!). Without getting into the other crap he told me (that's for my story, which I will post soon) ... at first I too wanted to move out to recover. What prevented it was finances and our daughter. While my husband and I are much better now, 9 months later, at the time we were both hurt and bewildered and it was pretty tense around the house. I wanted to flee and so did he. But since he's dependent on me, it just wasn't possible. So I asked for space and he gave it to me. I told him that I couldn't make any promises about the future until I made sense of my past. Much of what happened to me was a result of a life-long struggle with self-worth caused by being raised by a BPD mother. To make it worse, my mother lives with us in an in-law apartment. That made it worse but also helped because my husband knows what my mother is and knows my N, so he could understad why I needed to heal in my own way on my own timeline. That's not to say it's been totally stress-free between us - we had our moments, but overall, it has worked out. He is wonderful. He has his share of issues, don't we all, and the withering of the marriage was 50% his doing. He views what happened with my N as the wake-up call he needed to be a better man, a better friend, and perhaps one day a better husband if we decide we want to try again. Since our daughter is only 8, it's likely we will, once I can say I don't ever want the N in my life. The reason it's hard for me to say that is because the N's excuse for breaking up with me was that he couldn't deal with the fact that I was a mother. And even though he claims didn't want either of us to set ourselves up for long-term longing (in other words, he wanted to pursue other relationships while we remained "best friends"), he told me that in 10 years if we both find ourselves single, and my daughter is grown up, "of course, we can try again". The details of THAT Mind-F are again for my story ... but that Mind-F has contributed to making it hard for me to let go. I know I have to give up that hope - I'm 90% there to where I can say I NEVER want to see him again, let alone engage in a relationship with him. But 10% of me still yearns for him. When that 10% dies, I'll know it's time to try again with my H. It wouldn't be fair to H to try with that little flame still burning because I'll still be making comparisons (even though there is NO comparison between the two. One is a true man and the other is a vampire.) Hope this helps. I encourage you to try to find a way to make this alone time for yourself. You can start with be very direct with your husband and telling him this is what you need. It will feel like you're being selfish. But you absolutely ARE NOT. Narcissism is selfish. Healing yourself, on the otherhand, is healthy.
August 8, 2010 - 2:29pm (Reply to #27)
better off
better off's picture

Greener Grass

I have been through this... You said "But 10% of me still yearns for him. When that 10% dies, I'll know it's time to try again with my H. It wouldn't be fair to H to try with that little flame still burning because I'll still be making comparisons (even though there is NO comparison between the two. One is a true man and the other is a vampire.)" I can tell you this, the grass is greener where you water it. Our culture emphasizes "following your heart" when, really, we should be leading our hearts. Feelings are feelings, and they are real, but if we operated solely on that, we'd all be hobos on the beach and eat ice cream for every meal(at least I would). The narc, especially the lothario that coaxes married women away from their husbands, will ALWAYS leave you with that 10% "chance." Mine even put it EXACTLY that way! There was always that percentage chance for us one day... so just keep that in your mind, honey, while I go seduce 15 other women, never thinking about you twice, yet you have that ten percent chance weighing you down like a fucking ANCHOR. But studies do show that thoughts and feelings do follow actions... if you work towards the much LARGER percent chance of having a marriage, your feelings will gradually move in that direction as well. If your heart lingers on a 10% chance with a narc, then that 10% actually will be where 90% of your feelings lie as well. That supposed 10% is going to hold you back way more than 10%. And as long as we're talking percentages... there is a 100% chance that he is a narcissist (if not a psychopath), an unchanging pathology that means you have 100% chance of being hurt and miserable. 100% of the time. There is ZERO percent chance you could be happy together. Even if you still have the feeling of a flame burning, do not indulge in it. Look the other way... it will grow smaller. I am now 18 mos of NC with my exN... that has been lauded as the gold standard of healing, in my case, I will just call it the narc spell "wearing off." It's worn off. Coincidentally (?) I have turned a major corner with my husband... believe me, we had plenty of serious issues that made me an easy target... and I have tried to "do the right thing" in my marriage, and really, the grass is greener now in my own yard. I had to act first, and the feelings are now following. He has to act too, of course, we are working on it together, and he is trying in good faith. Some days I still feel unhappy, but this is real life, not fantasy narc land. I would encourage you to re-read your last line often (from the post I'm responding to)... you say you still have a flame burning, yet... you say your husband is a true man, and your N is a vampire. Stay in the sunlight. :)
August 10, 2010 - 6:13pm (Reply to #28)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Better Off

Thank you so much. I've been thinking more and more like this over the past couple of days since I made that "10% comment" and it really, really helps to hear from someone who is 18-months out and can articulate how to let go of that final 10% successfully. You are right - N created that 10% flame in me. I sent him one final e-mail when I was trying to decide whether or not to *honor* his *request* (guilt trip would be a better term) be his "best friend" after he dumped me, and in it, I asked, "one word from you will silence me on this question forever, please tell me once and for all if we can try again?" And his response was, "One word sounds so harsh but I feel I must coldly state my intentions to you now. No, I don't think we can try again. At least not any time soon." Despite the fact that right now, writing this post, I would like to swear and point out what an SOB he really is ... the pertinent point is not that he's an SOB but that I don't need that kind of crap in my life. And I really appreciate you pointing out what I've been reminding myself over and over these past few days - he is disorderd which means there is hardly any chance he will ever learn how to have a healthy relationship without serious professional help. And since he'll never get it, there is no chance that he will ever be the right person for me. So you're right .... I have to continue to focus on myself and stop giving that flame any oxygen.
August 11, 2010 - 11:33am (Reply to #29)
better off
better off's picture

Cake eating

Sister, I did try to do the "best friends" thing (at his request of course), and if you want a recipe for depression, that would be it. In fact, that part of it was so confusing and dragged out my recovery for soooo long that I surely do wish I could take that back. And, as usual, in the narc's world it's just their way to have their cake, and eat it too, and somehow you don't get any cake at all. Maybe a couple of stale crumbs. On a good day. The truth is, he is NOT my friend. I like your comment about oxygen... so true that flames need oxygen to burn, and that part is up to us. Again, feelings exist, and they aren't always under our control, but feeding them is. I found it helpful to journal, a lot!, about those feelings, and just accept them, but not to think they mean something about what is appropriate for my future. I think many of us get very caught up in the strength or depth of our feelings and confusing that with the Meaning of Life. Over time I learned a lot about myself through this process, and I came to understand that the depth of my feelings has more to do with my sensitivity and ability to feel deeply... than it has to do with the object of my feelings. ( a good website is www.hsperson.com ) If you are interested in communicating by email, you can ask betty for my email address. I don't reveal a lot of details on here about my sitch because I have moved forward with my husband, who, by the grace of God, does not know about my N. But I would be happy to give you some more encouragement about the future now that I have gotten this far!
August 7, 2010 - 11:12pm (Reply to #11)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Morty

I can't believe how much our stories are the same. We did have a sexless marriage too, until the N incident happened and then somehow our sex life got great....I think every day for about 2 - 3 years! I think it was because I was very happy and fulfilled. And once my husband found out, he too viewed it as a wake up call and worked very hard on improving himself. Surrounding himself with good, Christian men who were good husbands and learned alot from them on how to be a father and a husband. And guess what? Suprise, suprise. About two years ago N said to me. "you may not know anyone better at bottling up feelings than I do. It is acceptance of things that cannot change (kids), and doing the right thing....and tequila helps with this process!" Well, when I talked to him about what he meant, he basically said that he felt that he had to put me out of his mind because I had kids - and nothing could change that - and it could result in the kids getting hurt. And he did not want to leave a "negative wake" in his life. maybe they are the same guy?
August 8, 2010 - 7:16am (Reply to #12)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

N's Comments

Sorry. But these comments by your N make NO SENSE. I learned in my horrible experience that I (ME) supplied so much meaning that was just not really there. I imagined. In the end, i see my N as a parasite. Anything I got from him, he got something in the giving & therefore fed off that experience as well.
August 8, 2010 - 1:06pm (Reply to #13)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

agnesmurphy17

Why do you think the comments make no sense? The way I interpretted it back then was this: - that he really did love me and wanted to be together, but did not want to mess up my family. And I maintained that opinion until just recently, becuase it was reinforced by him continuing by luring me and getting upset that I wasn't divorced yet. I really thought he was a good guy that was waiting! And I really thought that last May when I wasn't divorced yet, was his internal deadline to move on. And then the DDs started after that... So this is why I stay in this state of confusion; that maybe his feelings for me were real and he was tired of waiting... who knows.
August 8, 2010 - 1:54pm (Reply to #14)
better off
better off's picture

But you are doing what agnes

But you are doing what agnes is referring to... giving his actions and comments meaning that he never supplied. You are supplying some sort of meaning that makes sense to YOU, as in, how YOU might react if the situation were reversed. They count on us to fill in the blanks that way, and they leave a LOT of blanks to be filled, don't they? They do that on purpose. You know that yours, for a fact, prides himself in his ambiguity and making people scramble around and try to figure him out. And even if they DO figure him out, he can always deny it because he was so outwardly ambiguous in the first place. Mine was the same, he definitely used ambiguity as a tool. In your case, you are imbuing his actions of him dumping you with the meaning that it because he was tired of waiting. Yet he has NEVER said this, or even implied it. If that were true, then wouldn't he have SAID so? Wouldn't a normal person, say, I can't do this anymore, I have put my life on hold and you never came thru, or whatever? Even IF your interpretation were correct (and I don't think it is at all), it still would be abnormal for him to do what he did. And lastly, I think it's very important to make the distinction that he was NOT being a good guy, or being moral, when he made his bogus statements about how he couldn't be in a relationship with you because you were married and he had to keep you separate in his mind. What a load of bullocks! He DID have a relationship with you. He was involved in, and driving, an emotional AFFAIR with you for 20 years. An affair, not a friendship. If he were such a good, honorable person, he would not have been STEALING your love and affection and attention from your marriage and your family, and UNDERMINING your home life every single day. All while it cost him exactly NOTHING. Seems like he had his hand pretty deep in the cookie jar to me, all the while, sounding so "noble" that he couldn't "have" you, even though he could snap his fingers and you would fly out to have romantic dinners with him. That is cheating. Only he is the cheapest of cheats, because he was pretending to be so virtuous and above it all. Just because you didn't have sex with him doesn't mean you didn't give him everything else, heart and soul. Just not the body. And because of no sex he could deceive you into thinking he wasn't doing anything wrong. Not to mention he was ENGAGED to someone else himself! Don't you think that if he had gotten engaged to you, he'd be doing the same thing? He is a thief. Like all narcs.
August 8, 2010 - 2:19pm (Reply to #17)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

betteroff :) â„¢

It is always nice to hear your crisp perspective! yes, he is the cheapest of cheats. To pretend to be so virtuous about everything and to make me feel like my interpretation of reality was crazy. (gaslighting) That is so unfair of him. I just so badly want him to say... A. "you are right loml, i did love you all of these years and i just felt like i couldn't tell you...but now i need to come clean. let's spend our lives happily ever after!" (excuse me while I puke) or the true answer. B. You are right LOML. I am a dick who just had fun playing you and using you for all of these years. Just like the other 100 women I have played and used over the last 10 years. Although I must say, it wasn't done intentionally, it is just my nature and I don't even realize I do it...I feel like I am just being a "good guy" and I need to always be a "good guy" because you see....I am a psychopathic Narc. I was so emotionally abused as a child that I just turned out like this and am in continuous pursuit of the perfect relationship, all the while, I need to be a good guy. You were just like all of them; unfortunately everyone is the same to me...you were my Soulmate/CEO Barbie and were just super fun to play with. I really never cared about your feelings, although I was super, super good at pretending like I did. And I did crave the emotional closeness that I received from you and I loved to use you as arm candy and go to fancy places, so that I could feel special and important. But unfortunately we got too close and you saw my beautiful, beautiful face without the mask on. And now that you have seen the ugliness that is underneath (the truth), I must terminate you! the end, forever, and ever.
August 8, 2010 - 2:55pm (Reply to #18)
better off
better off's picture

Oh, ABSOLUTELY do they need

Oh, ABSOLUTELY do they need to still think that they are a good guy. A prince. He would never cop to being a user, he's too good a guy. Mine acted like I stabbed him when I said he was a using me. (ME! But I am so wonderful, caring about everyone's feelings so much) But I suppose the truth hurts. And something else about yours, loml, which is just like mine, of course... (I've touched on this before) everything he "gave" you cost him nothing. Or he even gained from it. You said that when your father was dying... he was on the phone with you and texting you all the time. You leaned on him and you felt loved because of it. That cost him nothing. He could do whatever it was he was doing and seem to "be there" for you.. but he wasn't actually "there" was he? You mentioned in passing that your husband was "there" at the hospital, and you did not feel connected to him... but he was feeding and changing a dying man. Not HIS father, but YOUR father. In all honesty, loml... would your N EVER have humbled himself and given of himself in a tangible manner like that? I'm going to suggest something a bit radical, and that's that there is a chance that your husband loves you way more than your N could ever dream of doing. And it may be that your husband is really lacking in "emotional intelligence" like a lot of guys can be, so he loves you with his actions. Like a lot of guys do. He must might not know HOW to "be there" for you, so he ACTED and he fed and changed your dying father. Meanwhile, if he doesn't know HOW to be what you need... how much chance did he really ever get to work towards that, when you filled yourself up on "love" from the N? You ate at a fancy buffet table all day long and came home and said you didn't like what was for dinner. I'm not blaming you, I'm just trying to get you to see things from a different perspective. I thought my N loved me SO MUCH and he was so THERE for me, yet, I know now if I ever had needed him to DO anything for me concrete, that would never have happened. He was extremely selfish with his time and energy. But words and talking and meaningless flattery, hell, that he could do. On his terms, in his time frame. My husband is emotionally RETARDED but he would work his fingers to the bone doing something practical in an effort to love his family. He is now trying to give me more of what I need, and I also have to realize that another person can't really give all of that to me anyway.. I have to develop in other ways myself. And BEFORE you say that your N DID do a lot of things for you, they were all self-serving things. Oh, let me go to the meeting since you can't handle it, but let's call that "help." His help always came with the condescension that you REQUIRED it. And he was feathering his own nest. None of that was sacrificial! But give you something you ASKED for? Yeah right.
August 10, 2010 - 6:26pm (Reply to #26)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

You are SO Right On about So Much Better Off

Thank you. Plus, I think our Ns were the same person. And how many times has THAT been said on this site?!?
August 9, 2010 - 3:52pm (Reply to #23)
narcdx3
narcdx3's picture

Saying you used me

Saying you used me to my recent narc(who was much like the situation with Loveofmylife except I was in the middle of a divorce when he came along) was just me being insane. He couldn't believe I would say such. Really what did I have that he used. He thought he was Mr. Hotpants everybody wants me, I know everything, everybody hates you and comes to me--how could I possibly use you. It sickened me the reaction he gave for that comment. I just didn't attempt to explain it. I thank goodness that I was recovering from my Narc marriage and was awake enough to realize what he was doing so I didn't spend years entrenched in his bull. It is so true that they make themselves appear to be helping you but now that I look back--he was on the phone with me and doing whatever was good for him at the time( during the DD he had his new chick on speed dial, we could be in a meeting and he totally ignored what was going on to deal with her. Made me realize just how stupid I had been---you could see it it was like a pig in the slop bucket soaking up his supply as soon as he sent her text he was all back to his supply in the room GAG it makes me so mad to think about it). Had I ever needed him to do man things he would have been to big of a wimp to even know where to begin. I don't think his dainty little hands could even hang a picture on the wall---yes "little man syndrome" and probably a big reason he was an N but I don't care why anymore I just care that he is.
August 9, 2010 - 9:32pm (Reply to #25)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Little Man's Syndrome

Have to share a funny little story...it makes me smile just to think about it. Ok, my husband is big. He is 6'5" and has big hands...if you know what I mean. Well, my best friend in trying to help me block the N out of my mind said "LOML, what if N has a teeny tiny you-know-what. Just think about that. You really don't know him and that could be why he can't hold down a permanent relationship!" Anyway, as clinically depressed as I was at the time...it was a much needed comic relief. Well, a few days after that...I was in a meeting with N and both of our hands were on the table next to eachother...so I peaked down and his hands were smaller than mine! (and I'm 5'5") Anyway, I just started giggling in the meeting...and he looked at me and said "what????"
August 9, 2010 - 3:59pm (Reply to #24)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Little Man Syndrome

My ex-P made a BIG DEAL about how he was short, how he inherited his shortness from his parents. He'd always be in awe and sizing up taller men. I think he had a big crush on our freshman lab assistant, who literally towered over him. His eyes just sparkly sparkled. He'd also ogle his colleague who had gone to grad school with him.... because he was TALL. My ex-N also had short man's syndrome, but he was at least HUMAN compared to the ex-P. He had joie de vivre, some emotions. And he was honest about being gay. His older boyfriend was MUCH taller.
August 8, 2010 - 5:01pm (Reply to #22)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

ONce again you are so right

- Husband is emotionally void. But he loves through his actions. 20 years ago I made a list to try to determine whether to stay married or leave for the N. N was everything I ever wanted - the emotional connection, intelligence, bond, etc, etc, etc - the list goes on. But I wasn't sure if he loved me. Without a doubt I knew my husband loved me through his actions - but I felt so empty. - And you are right, there was no space for him to love through emotions. - And like you, N's words, thoughts, flattery were all on his terms and on his time frames. And N is also very selfish with his time and efforts. I'm going to actually post a new thread on that. Dang you have to be selfish with your time and efforts when you are courting 10 women at once! There is little precious time to do that!
August 8, 2010 - 3:21pm (Reply to #19)
Used
Used's picture

why they help

they help you when they have nothing better to do at the time, if they did have something better on offer they would be doing it, he may have seemed like he was giving you support ,he wasent he was doing what suited him, and the reason we are overwhealmed, with gratitude and emotion, is b/c it is so seldom, thats why we think its so wonderful. it is not and never was what it appeared to be.
August 10, 2010 - 6:19pm (Reply to #20)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Why they help - struck a chord

Used - that is EXACTLY what my N did. He even said he was helping me to see whay I should dump my husband and when he dumped me, he said he was helping me then too ... and to top it all of, he had the cajones to say, even though you and I didn't work out right now (but maybe someday we could try again), you should still leave you husband for someone who can accept the fact that you're a mother. Well now - that whole Mind-F was honestly the most HELPFUL set of tidbits of unsolicited advice I had ever received in my life. Gawd! I think "helping" me was his little entertainment for the summer while he was bored. As an added benefit, he got great sex in the process.
August 11, 2010 - 11:39am (Reply to #21)
better off
better off's picture

Yes, thank you, N for this

Yes, thank you, N for this unsolicited HELP. What would I do without your help? Thanks for helping me almost end up in a nuthouse. Realizing I was simply entertainment for a bored rich man, yep. Feels great, doesn't it? The D&D sucks so bad, and then, when you figure them out, it's like... oh, thank you, GOD!!!
August 8, 2010 - 1:58pm (Reply to #15)
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

Better Off is in da house

Dang you know how to nail it down! Some things for me to think about in this post, thanks.
August 8, 2010 - 2:40pm (Reply to #16)
better off
better off's picture

thx :)

thx :)
August 6, 2010 - 4:06pm
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

Congrats...

you are among those of us "in the know." And I would say your therapist is spot on, about your husband. His kind is extremely rare. I hope you guys can work things out. And in the future, you will remember that when things get rough, the grass truly is not greener on the other side. I sincerely wish you good luck
August 6, 2010 - 7:12pm (Reply to #7)
Lim
Lim's picture

Thank you

Thank you so much. It was one week ago today and while I still have thoughts of the N, they are mostly negative ones. I truly am dumbfounded how an individual can just walk away and destroy lives without a second thought. Obviously, there are millions out there. This should be a required health topic in high school for teens. God was obviously with me when this all transpired. I am grateful he stepped in and told the N to walk away. Yes, my husband is very rare. So many fantastic qualities. We have been married 24 years and are going to work hard at making the second half so much better. I did not mention through all of this. My 18 year old son has been absolutely amazing as well. So supportive. He told his dad that he was going to teach him how to be romantic. Unfortunately, he lost what he thought was a best friend and mentor in the N. He now knows that horrible people really do exist.
August 6, 2010 - 1:25pm
RandomGal
RandomGal's picture

I know how it feels to be

I know how it feels to be caught at a vulnerable time it leaves you thinking how could I have been so naive, he was well practiced and you weren't, it says more about you than it does about him. I have been caught out by 3 N's and I am learning what to look out for now. I have a great girlfriend who is nobody's fool she says some men just look around the room and spot easy targets they know their prey....
August 6, 2010 - 10:47am
narcdx3
narcdx3's picture

Loving the N

The fact that we loved something that did not exist is the hardest part---knowing how much we truly gave and it was all a game to them. I too live in a small town where my situation has been great for lunch time talk. I struggle daily with people who just don't get how I fell for it. He is very charismatic, all the things you said about yours. The thing was he turned it up behind closed doors. He hooked me with every possible hook there was. He zoned in on all my needs and insecurities. He asked friends personal questions about me and developed himself around the answers(that is the one that I just let soak in recently---he built himself on what he knew about me, he studied me).I was going through my divorce and was very vulnerable. I was completely in his trap. But in the end I woke up and struggled to free myself. I asked all the questions, why did you lie, why did you make up things to hook me, you are not who you say you are. The list goes on. For 3 weeks I cried and was a public mess. Then when I saw it for sure this is a repeat of what I just spent nearly 2 years getting out of I broke down, went home went to bed and cried all day. I kept telling myself he is evil, he is an animal they preys on people. I had to let go of the why. I know why--I was easy prey. But I lost so much in the end--I lost my job for 1, I lost the respect of a lot of people and I lost friends. But my ex-husband(also a N) took joy in hearing I had lost these things. I simply told him, I haven't lost a thing, I regained my life. And that is so true. I have my freedom to be me, to come and go without questions, to spend such precious time with my children, to stop crying in front of my children. Things happen for a reason. My job had taken time away from my family--it was a 24/7 on call go in when needed, etc. It is a blessing. For you, I hope it is a door opening to feel love and understanding. Good luck with it all. It's like waking up from a dream. I still find myself going back and trying to fix it here or there and saying really why didn't you see it. But we have to forgive ourselves.
August 6, 2010 - 7:20pm (Reply to #4)
Lim
Lim's picture

Loving the N

I ask that we all hold our head high as we walk through the internal daily struggles of life as we deal with this pain. Sure, others can gossip and talk all they want. I feel comfort in knowing that I know the true him. These individuals do not. So many are quick to judge, but they have not been brainwashed by these mindfreaks. They are the shit on the bottom of our shoe and we need to scrape them off.
August 6, 2010 - 10:25am
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

Welcome Lim

and I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Much of your story with the N is all too familiar unfortunately...I so understand watching their radar go off and knowing that you have another challenge ahead of you (and then wondering why we tolerate this crap on top of that). Keep reading and posting and working through your grief...you are wise to take that medicine now rather than try to figure out any more why he is the way he is. What's more important is to figure out what needs to grow and change in you.