CassieMay
thanks for your post... that is exactly how i feel now- envious and simultaneously severely hurt and betrayed!
Hopefully i am not draining you all to much too quickly- however i have so much to ask...so much to get out as well.
But....
What about friends. i HAD 4 really good friends. Now i only have 2. I realized one of them was an N and so i got rid of him last week. The other was just a selfish idiot (constantly bragging about her new man and telling me her ovulation schedule and the about when they are going to work on their baby KNOWING i was devastated about not getting pregnant 3 months ago-- so i have avoided her like the plague!!).
Anyway regarding friends.... what about when they dont want to hear it anymore. The 2 that i have are pretty much saying... "hey he's gone... maybe now we can have our old fun, life of the party, cocky friend back" They think this dysphoria i exhibit all the time is optional. They keep saying enough already... he was a tool. Just go out and let's have fun!! Enjoy life. I have tried to explain about NPD and how after that kind of man i wont be 'fine' within a month. They tell me it is my choice. They are over it and so each time then hear me sad or trying to pretend i am happy (so that they dont question me about it), they are like "Jess are you kidding... are you STILL thinking about this jerk- who cares!!!"
The N male friend that was making things worse even used to say that my N treated me like that bc i was TOO nice and i ALLOWED him to walk all over me. That perhaps if i had grown up with my father i would know how to handle a man better and stand my ground. He told me that I should be using this time to dig into my issues with my father... then forgive my father and maybe that will help me FORGIVE my N. I was like WHAT?!?!?!? So it is I who was responsible for the emotional abuse and pain my N put me through? He was like "yes"--- ughhhh! Anyway i got rid of him; because little did i know he was showing his false self while i was involved with my N and i used to cry to him all the time for advice or just some support. However when my N dumped me it was my 'friend' who became emotionally abusive. However i completely told him off and had more power than i knew was within me. I guess a lot of that was some of my anger intended for my N who dumped me. Now my N friend is constantly texting me --- not with an apology- but rather with "are you over your little hissy fit yet" minimizing his rude behavior -----ewwww they are all the same.
LOL--- just to let you know how rude my "N friend" became: he was trying to hit on me (since i was newly single and obviously vulnerable). Talking about how i was so wonderful, beautiful, etc.... how he would treat me like a queen... make the most beautiful love to me- etc. However, after days and days of saying that he sent me pics of a naked girl (a friend of his who was coming into town) that was tatooed all over... with the caption in the email "why do i want to F#@% her so badly!!" I was like WHAT?!?!! Here this guy discussed his LOVE for me... his friend and that he would be so priviledged if i would just open up and allow him to date me and then turn around and i am unexpectedly looking at the boobs and butt of some girl he is about to ummmmmm DO!
These people are sooo sick! I'm actually laughing right now! Cant help it! LOL!
Anyway as far as my friends... i don't have any of them to go to anymore... they dont understand the reason for the pain... they see it as a waste of time.
Jessika
jessika
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/07/02/when-your-friends-family-dont-get-it-about-narcissist
http://www.brokenspirits.com/information/family_and_friends.asp
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/03/20/cognitive-dissonance-obsessional-thoughts
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CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily
"Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Jessika-
I lost some of my friends too through the process. NO, they don't get it. Really they don't. They can't. It is too complex and dark. ONe friend really really tried to get it. She hung in there and did check on me. It was a dark night of the soul for me the first few months and I did it alone. I wish I had found this site. My friends just wanted their party fun girl back too. I too refer to myself as having a swager (so funny you said that). I am an outgoing, funny, happy person usually. This literally knocked the life smooth out of me. I can't explain the darkness I felt. I really felt I couldn't make it sometimes. Did I have father issues. YES!! But so what! I had done so much of my own therapuetic work. I had been in counseling intermittendly for years and years. I knew my issues and delving deeper into them at that time wouldn't have helped. I too got rid of a male friend that said that I would never marry or have a family, because clearly I was too screwed up. I would be haunted with these issues and it would cost me my truest desire. I dumped him immediately. I haven't talked to him since. I needed positive people and encouraging people. He had to go. This situation is just like any other crisis. YOu find out who your true friends are. I couldn't be my old self and if my friends couldn't be okay with that, then maybe they weren't my friends to begin with. A couple of those friends have reappeared in my life recently, but I have been more cautious and guarded. I have begun to make new friends as I am coming out this fog. Honestly, I am sorta reinventing myself. some of those old people and friends weren't all that appropriate. I keep them at a bit of a distance now. I am also not reliant on them for support anymore. Everyone needs support; i just learned who I could draw support from and when I needed to find it within myself. There is a fine balance. This site is wonderful for that. It will get better. I spent sooo much alone time in the first few months. I am coming back out again. It sounds like your friends, much like mine, were insensitive and clueless. You can't help what you feel and where you are at right now. You should be allowed to be wherever you are. Yes your exN is a tool. DUH!! WE get that. It goes so much deeper than that. Don't keep trying to reexplain it to them. Sorry, but that are not safe friends at this point. It doesn't sound like they have the depth of compassion to be of service at this point. They are not bad people, just a little shallow perhaps. When you are ready to come back out and play, then you can give them a call. That is kinda the point that I came too. You do what is best for you right now. Your survival and well being depends on it. keep writing and reading and crying as much as you need to. It is all part of the process. That is the only way to get throught it; face it head on.
Thanks jessika , i understand now !! they really are so so cruel ! its very soul destroying !! ... i know that. Ive also done a degree in psychology and we touched on narcissim in lecture one lesson and even i didnt see it !! I knew the symptoms of a narcissist , but never in a million years knew how amazing they are a luring you into a relationship and feeding the bull that they do in the beggining! ... I didnt even notice what he was doing in the relationship because i tend to think you can be blinded by love and emotion - also denial in my case , i had too much hope for him ... and it has sucked my soul and left me energy-less , hang in there hun! They say the first step is always talking about our problems ! :) xxx
Jessika,
I know exactly how you feel. I was with mine over five years. He, too, is very wealthy. Makes millions every year. A very powerful, successful attorney. I'm learning a lot about these types, but it sometimes feels too late. I turned myself inside out for years for him and it was never enough. He would leave and come back every six months or so. When I moved in with him (lasted only eight months) I knew he had lied to me, cheated on me, discarded me so many times, but I still did it. I gave up my apartment (in NY - rent controlled), gave up all of my things that I worked for. I lost everything. I now live in a tiny place in a not so great neighborhood and he lives the life. He has everything and women throw themselves at him just for what he has. I, too, did things in the end that I was, and still am, ashamed of. I went crazy. Cried, screamed, begged him to keep trying. But now I'm beginning to realize that when moved in with him, I found too many things out. I quickly saw that he wasn't the person I thought he was and that was very hard to deal with. My therapist says that we break down and do crazy things because we can no longer suppress what they're doing to us and the confusion we have because we know what they are doing is wrong. Blowing up and doing the things I did in the end actually saved me. It was my whole system just telling me that I can do this anymore - and he used that as an excuse to tell me he was done. What they do is maddening. I have a masters in social work, but don't counsel, but it doesn't matter. You may know what he is in theory, but sometimes you don't really see it, or believe that it's happening to you. I think that most of us are guilty of the same thing - tolerating it and making excuses for way too long because we want to believe. We want to make it work. We lose sight of boundaries, or didn't have great ones to start with and need to create them so it never happens again, but that's our only fault. Please don't feel shame or guilt for the things you did or for how you acted. You did what you did and at the time because that's all you were capable of doing. Keep reading books, even if you know about narcissism. Keep reading our stories here. It will get better, but you need to be kind to yourself.
it infuriates me to no end, mine being very very wealthy and I am sure flaunting this to his new victims, or one good reason why the girlfriend sticks around, thinking this could all be hers oneday, ya right in her dreams. They use wealth as power when you have a good looking, smart, wealthy psycho they are even more dangerous. He has the world at his feet and women too but I am sure they arent at his feet ha ha they set up their props and whamo, they use it to lure and trap future supplies I say let them have their wealth and fancy homes and cars and boats i can see myself held captive living in his home I would be nothing but treated like a whore trapped in his sick world, all the money in the world cant make you happy then while they are off cheating your sitting in their wealth it would be a lonely life - money wont give you happiness when all you are is used like an object in the end love does conqor all
Like the song goes, money can’t buy you love. Yes, it can buy sex but never love. And all those that sell themselves so cheat, get what it is that they all deserve, a world of luxury but starved of true love and lonely without true companionship.
http://james-personalitydisorder.blogspot.com/
I found myself so lonely these days, we get frustrated because we were trashed and thrown away but yet we are not truly the lonely ones, we are deeply wounded mind you and we sit back and marvel at what they have but yet they really have NOTHING, if you are unable to feel anything towards another human being no matter what you owned would bring you no rewards, life is a continuance of interacting with people they must feel like they are in complete isolation from all humanity they can hide in their material props and seek temporary thrills of sexually acting with others but there is no sense of belonging to anything in their world and I cant imagine my life without it, if I think my life is lonely now, try being a narcissist because when they are all alone (which they hate) they are in hell
I completely understand Jessika. I have worked as a licensed professional counselor and didn't catch it with mine. I knew all of the textbook underpinnings of NPD and yet, I was blinded. Looking back, of course, I do now see the robotic fakeness, but at the time, I only saw charm and attraction. Mine too has everything he wants. He has a fantastic life and everyone caters to him. However, he is not quite as wealthy, but has an enviable life all the same. Mine blamed me as well and blamed me for not being the positive influence he needed in his life. I was one of the ones that helped make him. I loved and supported him through it all. After everything, I was thrown away too. He exploited my weaknesses and percieved me being in love with him my main weakness. He used my love and compassion as his manipulation point. What a sick individual indeed. And you are right, there is no amount of training or education that prepares for the pain of something like this.
I was so embarrassed and disappointed in myself as well. I questioned myself as a clinician and as a strong woman. In fact, I am not even practicing anymore. My life as I knew it was ripped out from under me. I almost went down the drain. My only real goal in my life was too to have a family and a normal relationship. In the fantasy, before the veil was lifted, he was my perfect mate. I fell for it. Perhaps in my desire for that I overlooked some things, but he is just that damn good too.
There are a couple of things I realize now after many months behind me. I am almost to the year point. I am a human being, before being a clinician. I loved him open heartedly, without reserve. I was able to trust and give openly in a relationship. Of course you weren't looking to be involved with someone with NPD. Yes, you may have seen some "red flags", but they weren't enough to persuade you. No one is perfect, as I told myself and they were simply personality "quirks". You didn't know better, or you wouldn't have put yourself through that. You were a normal, loving, caring woman. In addition, these men are so extremely good at their trade of deception.
I lost myself too in that process. I still have flashbacks so to speak and I do believe a touch of PTSD. Now, it sends shivers down my spine. I don't ache for what might have been and I don't blame myself anymore for the demise of the relationship. That was the real pity; the mind f**k I allowed him to put on me. What I think you will find, it that through this process, when you find yourself again, you will be different, yet stronger. A more whole version of you will emerge. I am finding that, but for me, it has been a slow process. Also, you will inevitably find another woman in your path, either through your profession or personal life, that you will be able to help and uplift. That is truly profiting from your experiences and helping someone else. What I am finding is that the lessons I learn often become the lessons I teach. I know it hard right now. I have so been there, but go easy with yourself. EVIL did come into your life and you are in the process of exorcising the demon in a sense. It takes time and alot of self forgiveness. Treat yourself with loving kindness. You deserve right now after what you have been through.
Everyone
I want to say thank you so much for responding to my post. THANK YOU! I am really glad i found this site!
To answer your question Barbara, I'm a neuropsychologist.
To the clinicians who answered me... i appreciate you sharing that their mask of deception fooled others with training.
Tasha... i really hope that you are safe now. He has such severe psychopathis/ antisocial behaviors- extremely dangerous. I am glad you have moved away.
To the other wonderful ladies and gentleman (James)who answered- it felt so nice to feel your kindness, love, and support. You all actually 'get it.'
Jessika
Wow what a great & interesting field
I was tested by a neuropsych when I first became disabled and my insurance company tried to deny me by saying I was mentally ill not physically all. This woman found that the brain damage I had at the time had caused my IQ to drop 5 points and my processing speed in problem solving was way down... she collated everything with my MRI and Spec-T scans and proved my case. I learned a lot. (my exNH was so peeved - he wanted to say I was a lazy, liar and got smacked with facts! LOL)
We all GET IT. Part of my goals is to educate more people about the horrible toll pathologicals take on their victims. And to increase public and professional (doctors, lawyers) awareness.
If you haven't read Dr. Hare's WITHOUT CONSCIENCE you should.
He has a website: http://www.hare.org/
HUG!
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CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily
"Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Jessika- I too am in my mid thirties and want a child deeply. My ex N definitely used that against me as a manipulative ploy. ON one hand, I don't think he would've totally minded me getting pregnant. We were careless and it damn near happened. I wanted it to, but I resumed my birth control. He would pump me full of how wonderful a mother I would be and he knew it was "written in the cards" for us to be parents. He pretends to have special pyschic abilities. He is a self help/spiritual guru fraud. Pretty boring. Anyway, There was something deep within me that protected myself and my unborn child from him. I knew I had a clear choice in front of me. Something told me if I didn't resume birth control when I did, then I would be raising a child with him or actually raising a child without him. See, mine had money too. That makes no damn difference to me. I would not subject my child to that. I wanted to give her a better chance than that. He already had children and we both know that children will not come out unscathed with a narc or psychopath. You deserve to bring a child into this world under the best conditions possible. I was NOT going to openly and consciously bring a child into this world under those circumstances. I didn't even want his DNA. There were even times after the break up that I questioned my decision. I knew I would be tied to him in some way if we had a child, but thank GOD rational thought kicked in when it did. I honestly feel it in my soul that I could'nt have endured him treating a child of mine poorly.
Your N knew your weak point too. Remain faithful. You were spared and a child of yours was spared as well. I do believe I was being looked after and protected by the powers that be. I don't have to be connected with that sad and pitiful man and he will never influence me or my child of the future. Thank God for that. I understand the conflict and pain you feel from him though. I too longed to be pregnant with his child and needed his love and adoration. It would've never ever come. It was an illusion. I do hope a child and family is in your future. I will not let mine destroy my vision. IN fact, he strengthened it for me. I am more clear about my boundaries, my new emerging sense of self, and what I am looking for. I am more comfortable alone than I have ever been and will never EVER settle again. Of course, none of us thought we were settling in the beginning. I am still recovering, but I am stronger internally. I know it. My life is just now starting to be rebuilt, but I am completely convinced it will be stronger and better than before. This time, it is from the inside out. There is nothing and no one holding me together externally; it is all internal, my strength, my sense of self, my faith. He did me a huge favor with his last D &D. Although he does still cross my mind, it is more in terms of dealing with it and processing it with newly acquired information. Before, there was so much blame, doubt, and insecurity on my part. Not anymore. I wasted almost a year blaming myself for "not being good enough". I just couldn't understand how my sweet gentle wonderful man could turn the way he did. What could I have done differently. If only, I had...that doesn't even register anymore. What I am saying is that it does get better little by little. And... I so get it about wanting to be a mother. It can still happen. You were blessed to get out of that man's clutches. You have a chance now at real happiness, with a wonderful family that you will build with someone genuine, kind, and loving. Best wishes to you. Sending you my best.
R U a nurse, therapist, CSW, teacher, psych grad student, artist
(btw Jessika - you do know that in prison populations evaluated for Sociopathy or Psychopathy more than 85% of them had undiagnosed and untreated ADHD... leading researchers to believe there is a connection)
Here's a must read for you:
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/04/professionals-in-helping-industries.html
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CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily
"Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
CassieMay thanks for your
not friends
Fair weather friends
Thanks jessika , i
Know how you feel
how do you deal with it
Love the Beatles
you made me consider something
Jessika- I get it.
Everyone I want to say thank
Jessika
Ns aren't parents
R U a nurse, therapist, CSW, teacher, psych grad student, artist