"God, give me justice"

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#1 March 1, 2009 - 2:57pm
Elena
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"God, give me justice"

Well, here’s my story. I am right now going through a divorce from a 10 year marriage with a narcissist. When I married him I was 23 years old, I had no knowledge about personality disorders. He was truly “prince charming”, I just fell in love with him, he had all the things I wanted in a man; I met him in church; he met all the requirements in “my checklist”. In just a couple of months after dating, he told me he wanted to marry me, and I accepted. I grew up with an abusive father, so the thought of having someone so nice and loving - felt so good. After we came back from our honeymoon, that’s when the nightmare started. I started to get phone calls from creditors at my job, harassing me to help pay for debts he had delinquent from the past. Then I got a phone call from the previous girlfriend that he had engaged to in the past, asking me to help her recuperate the money he had borrowed from her to buy her engagement ring. I did what I could to ensure these things got paid, with the intent of leaving these things behind us and moving forward with our lives into a better future together. I wanted to believe the best of him, and see those things as just mistakes from the past. Then just a few months after being married, the intimate/sexual distance started; when I realized my "prince charming" was no longer interested in me intimately, I spiraled down into a depression. I would curl up in bed and just cry. What’s so shocking is that he would see me in that condition and he knew why I was depressed (I shared this with him) and he would do nothing about it to fix things. I was confused, I didn’t know why this was happening, I couldn’t explain it; I didn’t think it was normal in a man, but I had no answers for the situation. And I was embarrassed to share with anyone about the sexual distance, it was just embarrassing. This distance remained for almost the entire 10 years, I discussed it with him many times, but he always had a different excuse for it. This got to the point where I stopped feeling like a woman, I no longer felt feminine or beautiful, I actually felt like I was ugly and non-desirable, I felt more like a “thing”, with no gender. I would get depressed frequently. But I lived with the hope that maybe one day things would change. From time to time though, the emotional and sexual distance would really get to me, and I told him I could no longer go on like this, that if he didn't love me to just tell me, and alot of times I told him I wanted to quit - even though I didn't mean it, I was actually hoping that maybe by giving him an ultimatum, it would motivate him to change. A few weeks ago, I saw some bank transactions in his checking account that showed he used his ATM/check card at a nude strip club.

He has never been financially responsible, I have always been in a position where I have to work, I have been the financial tower in the relationship. I was never able to fulfill my desire of being a stay-at-home mom, because he has never made enough money to sustain a household; the only financial thing that has resulted in our marriage is a lot of debt, we ended up with about $45,000 worth of just credit card debt; and even under these circumstances, he still was not satisfied with our 2000 sq. feet home (and it’s only the 2 of us – no children), he said he wanted to have a home so big that the dinning room would fit 16 people, my thought process was – “Wow, you can’t even provide for me financially with what we have, how can we possibly acquire more and bigger things?”

He has been a regular liar through the marriage, lies from little things to big things, from lying about who he’s on the phone with, to lying about money, and later about things to cover up for an affair. I now realize that I was in a manipulative relationship, but I am still having a hard time seeing through the fog, it’s still foggy. It seems that in a very subtle way, he isolated me from my friends and family; my friends and family have shared with me that they noticed this was happening, and for the longest time, I just didn’t see it. Like I said - it has been foggy.

He blames me for the failure of the marriage; he uses any mistakes I made to say it was my fault. There was a point when I felt I was drowning in a “pit of guilt”. This took me into a “Self-blame” or “Self flagellation” battle, and I’ve really struggled with this. I am also sure he’s talking all kinds of negative things with our mutual relationships, which hurts me a great deal because I place a high value on relationships, I really care about my friends, and to think that his negative talks about me would hurt these relationships that were meaningful - hurts me, but I realize I can’t do anything about this. What I did is I selected some people who I felt were my most important relationships, and I shared about the adulterous affair with them and that I was getting a divorce, so they would know the truth, because I am sure he will not reveal that he committed adultery to them. But even then, I realize they will believe whatever they want to believe. I know he has already complained about me to some of them – before I knew about the other woman. I have battled in my heart with this, because I feel this is so unfair. I am now praying – “God, give me justice”, for people to see the truth about this situation, and for people to see the truth about who he really is, and what has really happened here. I have worked so hard for this marriage to work. Close to the end of the relationship (before I knew about narcissism), I told him that I was 100% committed to making things work, and that I loved him so much that I would put my life on the line for his, and he told me – “Why do you want to be with someone who doesn’t love you?” After 10 years, our marriage meant nothing to him. This was so painful. I feel used, taken advantage of, hurt, deceived, betrayed, abandoned, wronged, and rejected. I feel like I have died. My counselor told me that I lost my self in this relationship. God, give me justice…

I welcome any comments from any of you, I feel that maybe this is the only group of people that really understands what I went through…

March 5, 2009 - 5:08pm
Jodie
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Same here!

My marriage wasn't quite as long but I was with my N for 5 years total. I went through an emotional holocaust with him and am still on the road to recovery. Initially he was everything wonderful; charming, gorgeous, successful and seemed to be so interested in my well being, emotionally and my needs. HA!!! Things started to change and in a big way. He always seemed to regain control of me though through his charm. He would say and do the most bizarre and bewildering things, leaving me to question my sanity and reality. He too lost total interest in intimacy (N's never have the interest to begin with) and sex with me. It was infuriating and humiliating; I brought it up so many times I felt like a stuck record. He loved his porn though. N's have the Madonna/Whore complex where they can't make love to someone they "love." Instead sex is a basic instinct/need for them like food and nothing more much. They have no desire in genuine intimacy; sex is "dirty" to them...that is what my N told me. I spent many nights crying myself to sleep. He was incredibly non empathetic. When my best friend tragically died I was hysterically crying, he "consoled" me for 1 minute then walked away and called his friend to see if they were still going to the gym that afternoon. We were in therapy once and the therapist said to him, "I want you to only have eyes for your wife." My N got all inignant and said, "UH I know! So does SHE!!!" We both looked at each other baffled; there is no reasoning with them and they just don't GET IT!!! They don't "get" reality, normal human emotion, pain, nor do they care about the consequences of their actions...they seem to never learn. It's bizarre. He would eat all of my food off my plate and then when I told him that was rude he would say, "I'm offended! That is how I eat!" He never wanted to spend time with me, always after his N supply like the gym, or tanning or driving in his toolbox Viper!! I started to LOATHE him!! But I was also addicted to him. He would call me an idiot, hillbilly and crazy bitch then turn around and say, "You know I love you. Let's go watch the playoff game." It was making me insane, his lack of conscience and flip flop behavior. When I finally threatened to leave after he tackled me and left bruises on my body for breaking a vase in the house he said, "You're a coward, you'll NEVER leave me!" The next day he came home from the gym and the Uhaul was in the driveway; he yelled at me for taking a mirror then changed his clothes and went to the gym. I haven't seen him since. He never asked where I moved to, he never called to check on my well being, he moved on like I was nothing to him. He only calls now when he needs money for the bills. N's leave a path of emotional destruction in their wake...and God is just. They will get what is coming to them!

"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."

March 5, 2009 - 9:52pm (Reply to #17)
grossot
grossot's picture

Oh my! What a story! You are

Oh my! What a story! You are stronger now because of what he did to and for you! You will move on to experience true real love. He will not. It seems as though he loves himself but he really doesn't. He's incapable of love. How sad for him:(. I cannot imagine what it would be like not to know love. Please be careful with giving him money for the bills. Is there any way that can be finalized? My N worshiped money and would do anything possible to gain my money for my loss and his reward. At least get bank records of his transactions with your money. nolongercontrolled
March 5, 2009 - 8:32pm (Reply to #12)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Narcissists have Madonna-Whore Complex

Jodie, I'm sorry you went through what you did. It is so eerily reminiscent of my experience with my ex. He was always at the gym, obsessed with his body and the one thing he insisted on having when we separated was the large living room mirror. As I sat with him in therapy holding his hand, he told our therapist, "Lisa is my good sweet wife. I can't see her in a sexual way at all." Narcissists all have a Madonna Whore Complex. Initially, the thrill of the chase entices them to pursue us. However, once you settle down with a narcissist, the conquest is over and they lose all interest. The only thing that turns them on is porn or the thought of sex with a stranger. My ex said to me during our separation, "You know, I'm happy we're getting a divorce. I never did understand why someone would want to have sex with the same person more than once. I mean, been there done that already. What's the point?" Narcissists do not see women in a healthy way. They separate women into two different categories. This is where the term "Madonna-Whore" complex comes from. To a narcissist, a woman is either sweet and kind (saintly) or sexy (a whore), but never both. If a woman is god to a narcissist, like any wife would be, he eventually categorizes her as a Madonna who is completely sexless. If she treats him badly, she is defined as a whore. A whore turns a narcissist on like nothing else. In the beignning of a relationship, every woman is sexy to a narcissist because the thrill of the chase makes her enticing. The more hard to get she plays, the sexier she becomes. However, once she has been conquered by the narcissist, she loses her desirability. The more comfortable the relationship becomes and the more caring she is to him, the less enticing she is to him sexually. She loses her sex appeal and becomes a saintly Madonna figure. A Madonna fulfills a narcissist's need to be catered to like a child. Therefore, they will do whatever they can to maintain this relationship. The wife is there to cater to their needs and stroke their ego. Unfortunately, he sees her as nothing more than a nurse maid or mother to care for his children. He is not interested in her sexually and will even withhold sex from her as a form of punishment. He loves frustrating the Madonna. A whore fulfills a narcissist's sexual fantasies. A whore is the only type of woman that turns a narcissist on. Somatic narcissists will typically cheat on their wives with other woman and Cerebral narcissists will watch porn obsessively. The unfortunate reality is that over time, any woman who is good and caring to a narcissist will inevitably become sexless in his eyes. This is why people often say that narcissists are warped sexually. They prefer auto-eroticism (masturbation) over being intimate with their significant other. They dread intimacy and will avoid it at all costs. You are so lucky to be rid of him, Jodie. You're right, they do leave a path of emotional destruction in their wake. They have no idea how much they hurt us. They are oblivious to other people's feelings. Always remember, it has nothing to do with you.....it's all about him. Stay Strong, Lisa
March 13, 2009 - 3:29pm (Reply to #14)
Jodie
Jodie's picture

Thanks Lisa

Lisa, I rushed home today to look at this site because it is giving me so much needed strength. After I left him I find myself lying on the living room floor (in my new apartment) rocking and crying in the fetal position like some nutball. Please tell me I am not crazy. I am mourning for him like a heroine addict trying to recover from a nasty drug. I know his personality yet I am still in awe that he has yet to call me to see how I am doing or try to rectify things even though I know it would only destroy me in the long run. But I'm his wife!!!! He said, "You did it this time, didn't you??!! You left! You left me holding the bag as usual. If you think you're coming back you better clean your closet up. You better send me money while you're living 'high on the hog' in your apartment." Meanwhile I took nothing (except that mirror) and was sleeping on the floor on a beach towel! I was crying, he said I deserved it. Then I said, "You don't even call to check on my well being! You don't even know where I live!" He said, "I knew you were getting a bed soon, your well being is fine!!!" I cannot begin to express this pain. And yes, he lost all sexual interest in me...even though he would say, "You're the hottest girl I've ever been with. Any guy would be luck to have you." Yet he can't get it up for me NO matter what lingerie I wear, etc. He told me once, "Having sex with the same girl is like watching the same porn movie over and over again, it just gets boring." Who says that???!!! Why would anyone feel that way about their wife they supposedly "love"? I would lie in bed night after night and watch him sleep and just bawl my eyes out. He never "got it." Then it got to the point where I was the one becoming abusive. I was so sick of catering to his needs and being seen like his Stepford Wife that I started lashing out by breaking things, attacking him, etc. I started losing my dignity. My blood pressure would go up, I would cry and cry. Everyone from the outside thought he was PERFECT!! He's gorgeous, "nicey nice", professional, gregarious, articulate, friendly. No one knew the madness I was living with. Then I started wondering, "Maybe it IS me. Maybe I'm being too sensitive. He gave up a lot for me, he really does love me." Then he would do something bizarre to question if he loved me....I felt like I was a hamster in a cage going around the emotional wheel over and over again. When it was good, it was AWESOME!! When it was bad it was flat out deadly and dangerous. I'm not some submissive little girl so I would let him have it too. We just couldn't seem to make it work no matter what we tried. Prayer, therapy, etc...I still hated him! Yet I was addicted to him, to his good side and "loving" side. He would drive like a maniac, run old people off the road, call women "whores", refuse to obey any law, constantly obsessed with the gym, his image, our cars, NEVER meeting my needs sexually (he said, "We have our WHOLE lives to have sex! What's the big deal? We'll be married for 20 years!), tell me I was a slob, constantly nit pick, call me "hillbilly" "psycho wife" and control me and humilates me in public. Yet I miss him? That is why I feel crazy. I need to stop the madness.

"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."

March 14, 2009 - 11:22am (Reply to #16)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Jodie

Jodie, I'm so sorry to hear about the state you're in right now. I know exactly how you feel. We are addicted to them because we are determined to make things work and have been conditioned by society not to give up. I banged my head against the wall for eight years trying to figure out what I needed to do to return things to the way they were in the beginning. What you must remember is that the beginning was not real. He put on an act in order to win you over. Once he secured your love through marriage, he no longer had to maintain this act. You fell in love with an illusion, an image of someone, but not the real deal. This is the hardest part of getting over a narcissist. Not only do you have to mourn the loss of the relationship, but you must accept the fact that what you thought was true love between the two of you, wasn't at all. Sure, you love(d) him and realizing he never loved you in unbelievably painful. No one wants to accept this. All I can say at this point, is that it has nothing to do with you. In his own strange way, he did love you (as much as he could, that is), but he is not capable of real love. Eventually, a narcissist tires of his significant other and will reject her. They either find a new source of Narcissistic Supply and reject you or they treat you so badly that you have no choice but to leave them. Right now, you are going through the worst part, believe me. You are waking up from the disillusionment of a narcissist. Please lean on us for support right now for we all know what it is like. You must remember, you did nothing wrong here and there is nothing you could have done differently to make this marraige work. It was inevitable that he would tire of you and either reject you outright or treat you so badly, you had no choice but to leave. You can get through this and once you do, things will begin getting easier. In fact, you'll meet men that are capable of real and genuine love and it will bring you so much joy. Narcissists are not capable of intimacy. You may have heard me say this already, but during our divorce my ex said to me, "You know, I'm glad we're getting a divorce. I never understood why someone would want to have sex with the same person more than once. I mean, once you've been with someone, what's the point? Been there, done that." You must understand that this is how a narcissist views sex and we are better off without them. Who wants to be with someone who is incapable of intimacy? Sex should be an expression of one's love for another. Narcissists do not view it this way. They see sex and love as entirely separate things. Their Madonna-Whore complex is impossible to avoid and will damage us emotionally. No one can handle this frustration, nor should they! They are only turned on by whores. The people in their lives that treat them well, eventually become completely sexless. The nicer you are to a narcissist, the more you turn him off, sexually. No joke, but this is their issue, not yours! There are men capable of real love who can appreciate intimacy. Healthy men appreciate a woman's ability to be sexy and nurturing at the same time. Unhealthy men, such as all narcissists, separate women into two categories - you are either a sexy whore or a saintly Madonna figure who cares for him and his children, but never both. Once you get through this, you will be open to meeting a man who is capable of real love and you will experience what real intimacy in a relationship is like. It's a wonderful thing and none of us should deny ourselves this joy in life. Every woman wants to be appreciated for her sexuality and her good-naturedness. That's the beauty of a woman! We should not deny ourselves of this! While the narcissist in our lives may not be able to experience the joy of intimacy, that does not mean we can't experience it. We have one life to live and we must live it to it's fullest! Hang in there. Things will get easier and eventually, you will find more joy than you knew was possible! Big Hugs, Lisa
March 13, 2009 - 3:37pm (Reply to #15)
better off
better off's picture

You're not crazy. It is

You're not crazy. It is like a drug. It's probably worse than drugs, really. I have to tell myself every day...I miss someone who doesn't exist. I just thought of a good website... www.radiantrecovery.com ...it's about being addicted to sugars and stuff, healing from depression. I kind of got away from all that, but she gives good advice on going through withdrawal..things you can do to help. I think I need to take WAY better care of myself physically...to start healing my brain..and hopefully my heart.
March 6, 2009 - 9:56am (Reply to #13)
carol
carol's picture

men v. narcissists

Hey Lisa, I am a college instructor and a talk radio host. I talke iwth and interview hundreds of men, as well as researching social psychology issues and male pyschology, specifically. If you're interested, there is a book called, "If Men Could Talk" by Dr. Alon Gratch. What I've learned that the male animal is natrually narcissictic and then socialized by unenlightened, emotionally damaged, gender-stereotyped parents, so that there is little hope of them emerging from childhood with a healthy sense of their masulinity or femininity. Sadly, this makes for a grim picture. When men are forced to detach from the mother figure to gain acceptance as a male, they then are indoctrinated into the male culture which infantilizes and dehumanizes women. This becomes internalized, and to the extent that there role models were worse or better along this continuum defines whether we tend to lable them as disordered and narcissistic or just "male pigs.' Either way, the picture seems grim, becuae I can tell you, the middle-aged guy in the grocery store, the mechanic, brain sugeon, whatever--when they tell you, in a professinoal setting whta they really think and feel--they all fit into our category of narcissism. Just thought I'd share. Wish to God I had somthing more comforting and encouraging to add.
March 5, 2009 - 9:34am
Elena
Elena's picture

My unique situation with friends...

Lisa, It makes sense. My situation is somewhat unique in the sense that a couple of our mutual friends are ministers, and I reached out to them because I was really hurt and devastated, and I didn't know how to process what happened, so I shared with them my story for help with advise, insight, and support to manage through the storm. I am thinking that because these two individuals are ministers - that this should be a little different? My first thought was that it was OK to share with them, what do you think? And maybe everyone else outside of the "minister" category I shouldn't share any details with... I am trying to have my support circle that can help me, but define the right and healthy boundaries... Your thoughts?
March 5, 2009 - 8:40pm (Reply to #9)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Who to tell about your narcissist

Ruby - I agree that it is ok to talk to your friends who are ministers. They can help guide you during this difficult time and are used to hearing stories of such emotional complexity. However, I don't suggest trying to explain your situation to many others. The reality is that unless someone has or is in a relationship with a narcissist, they just don't get it. They can't possibly understand. Rather than exhaust yourself trying to explain it to others, just let it be, especially with mutual friends. They are his friends and they want to think the best of him. At the same time, he is making extra sure he is laying the charm on extra thick with your mutual friends because he feels you are now in competition for them. A narcissist is always up for a competition. It's not worth it, just let it go. At the end of the day, you know the truth and that's what matters. You can sleep at night. Hang in there! xoxo, Lisa
March 6, 2009 - 8:30am (Reply to #10)
Elena
Elena's picture

Thanks Lisa!

Lisa, This makes sense, I appreciate your insight. Thank you!
March 4, 2009 - 10:30pm
grossot
grossot's picture

I'm hurting for you. My

I'm hurting for you. My trial for my divorce is going to be a long hard road. I'm so glad we have this site to share our feelings! After 7 years of marriage and 5 weeks of confusing emotional betrayal and abuse, my N said to me "at least I ****** you in the ***" Sorry so vulgar. During the end, when I was trying to make things work (I really thought, as you probably did, that I was the cause of our problems, that I could do better)my N constantly told me he didn't love me. I said what if I hurt you? he said, how could you hurt me? You were used, taken advantage of and all those things you listed. He had no right to do that to you. You were an object to him. You are better than that! You have a soul. You can feel! You can get out of his web - he can't! nolongercontrolled
March 3, 2009 - 2:25pm
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Ruby!

Ruby - I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. This man is a typical narcissist trying to make you feel as though it's your fault the marriage didn't work. The facts are quite clear, he cheated on you when you had been ready and willing to be intimate with him for ten years. Do not let him manipulate you into feeling guilt here. He is a sick man. You, on the other hand, are so young and have your whole life ahead of you. Be glad you did not have children with this man. The horror stories I hear of how narcissists use their children to fight with their ex-spouses are horrible. I know it sounds cliche, but be grateful you figured him out who he really is now and can re-create your life without disrupting the lives of children. This is your time. Take control of your life again. You did lose yourself in this relationship, but I understand why. We all do. Narcissists mess with our head in such a way that we question everything we do in the process of trying to fix the marriage. They test our sanity and our resilience. When you finally realize there is nothing you can do to fix it, it is like a huge weight has been lifted. You no longer need to feel guilty for not making this marriage work. It's not your fault. It was doomed from the start because you didn't marry the person you thought you did. It will take time to mourn the loss of the relationship you thought you had, but you will get through this, and find the happiness you deserve. Stay strong, Lisa
March 4, 2009 - 10:15pm (Reply to #3)
Elena
Elena's picture

How do I handle his friends?

Lisa, In your view, how should I handle some of our mutual guy friends that were really good friends with him in the past, and they were also good friends with me. But I think some of them sympathize with him (they have no clue he is a narcissist, I don't even think they know anything about the disorder). A couple of them have made me feel guilty, like I did something to cause the divorce, and it really added to the guilt and condemnation I felt. What is the best way to handle these guys? Some of them I respected and I valued their friendship, but I feel right now they might be biased. Your thoughts?
March 4, 2009 - 11:16pm (Reply to #6)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Ruby

Hi Ruby, Take the high road on this and by doing so, they will know you have done nothing wrong. Do not defend yourself by telling others how horrible he was. They'll never get it, especially if they are good friends with him. They have yet to be hurt by him. They are still under his "spell." They think he's fabulous and nothing you can say will help them see this before it's time. Eventually, he will hurt each one of them and expose himself for who he really is. For now, there's no point in trying to get them to see it. It has to happen to them personally before they will ever see it. Until then, show them what a class-act you are. Say nothing deragatory about him to any one you're mutual friends with for this will only make you look immature, guilty and defensive. You know that deep down, you do not need to defend yourself. You did nothing wrong. You don't need to explain a thing to them, yet they will sense from your unwavering resolve, that you are certain you have nothing wrong and don't need to prove this to anyone, but yourself. xoxo, Lisa
March 4, 2009 - 11:15pm (Reply to #4)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

friends

HI Ruby, Read your post about friendships and it is a good question as we all go through this issue with a divorce or breakup. I can't tell you what is best for you, of course, but can share my own experiences. We had several mutual friends and I, like you, respected and valued their friendship. In the end they were really "his" friends and I had mine. I didn't want to be in the position of defending myself with his friends and/or putting him down in some way that would be detrimental to him. I opted to just let it go unless They contacted me, which they did not. That alone says a lot. I relied instead on my own friends and support system, which felt much safer and removed me from the situation in a way that I think was healthy. It hurts so much to have to let go of these relationships, but at least for me, it was a necessary loss. Not pleasant, but necessary. I wanted Many times to email all of them and tell them just what a fucking jerk he had been and all that he had done, but realized that would only keep me in the sickness and make things worse with anger back from him, them thinking that yes, indeed, I WAS crazy, etc. So I just let it go. I hope this helps and I feel for your pain in having to deal with all the resultant losses. It's never just one thing or one person because our lives are like networks and spider webs. In the end there is just so much loss. Be strong and take care of yourself with the ones you know truly love and respect you. CM
March 4, 2009 - 11:20pm (Reply to #5)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

p.s. friends

Ruby, Forgot to add that with Really close friends which we both shared, only a couple of couples... that I did share how hurt and sad I was, but tried not to mention all of the details unless they asked. And those Did. So I shared. They were not surprised and that was validating. However, I know they still maintain contact with my ex as well and so I'm very careful of not saying much more about him. Rather, I focus on what's going on with me and with them and it seems to work pretty well. CM
March 3, 2009 - 7:18am
Carolyn
Carolyn's picture

ruby

You won't get justice and you won't feel good about this for a very long time. Narcissists have no sympathy and have no empathy. Watching you suffer did not mean anything to use. These men only manipulate, use, and abuse. You are angry at yourself for staying for so long. I got out of my anger by reading The Law of Attraction and changing how I thought. It turned out all right and the nightmare isn't a constantly new hurt it is just a distant memory. You will actually get to a point when you can chuckle to yourself about some of the really crazy stuff. Carolyn