If it was discovered that NPD were like Schizophrenia would we.....

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#1 Mar 12 - 4AM
Trulybroken
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If it was discovered that NPD were like Schizophrenia would we.....

Be as angry with them?

I live next to a guy who has Schizophrenia and one day he's super nice to me, the next, he'll call me a whore or a bitch. He's got a masters in business, but cannot work because of the schizophrenia.
Never was a I hurt or insulted at his name calling.

There are many schizophrenia actually out there living "normal" lives; working, married etc.

What if they discover NPD (or any other PD) has the same brain wiring/chemistry and Schizophrenia, would we view the narc is a much different light?
Be less angry?!

I think of this often when I lay in bed at night plotting the karmic torture of my ex....hahah! I get moments like "Maybe he truly cannot control this" Or "Maybe he really want to be normal"

He's said to me on many occasions "I just want to be normal"

If he can't control this as much as we cannot control our sexuality, then this is a whole new ball game!

Discuss

Mar 12 - 7PM
almostlydia
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I think this is a great

I think this is a great subject because in all the gamut of emotional abyss we go thru with the N's for some of us there is an intrigue I think because it is such a hard thing to wrap your mind around. I am totally intrigued by it now that I understand it. It is fascinating to me how one can absolutely have no heart and what could have possibly been so horrible in someone's life to have rendered them totally incapable of knowing love whatsoever. I find it totally amazing. And I think about it in great depth. Especially when you come to understand there is no hope. I think it is a great subject as to something we have been exposed to and now try to understand.

almostlydia

Mar 12 - 7PM
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

ok Im gonna respect your

ok Im gonna respect your opinion but in time I think you will come to find that Im not that far off the mark. You seem to think everyone is attacking you but I dont see it that way. I think everyone is just trying to help. If you had only been here six months ago you would have seen threads like this one involving me where I said people were way off the mark and while some of them were a little off the mark now I see that they were that far off the mark. I guess I just dont understand. It seems that you are well on your way to healing but your here and would appear looking for something. Maybe it just to help others? I dont know. I dont have any idea whats going on with you. I have no idea. I can only go by what I read. You mention that you are looking inward but thats not what I read. That doesnt mean that you arent it just means that its not showing in your posts
Mar 12 - 9PM (Reply to #52)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I think the question here

Is one having more to do with an "ethical" type of reasoning... The question: If we knew them to suffer the way Skitzophrenics *spelling?* do...in that There are some mental illnesses that have been studied extensively and more is known about them and there are medications and treatment protocols to help in some way. The awareness that if a skitzo did something outlandish...while it may be hurtful, we get that they're sick and most I am assuming here would not personally hold it against the skitzo because they know they're sick, science has confirmed it so on an so forth... AND the question was hypothetical: If we knew the same to be true for PDI's...if science somehow caught up...if we learned they were PDI's capable of abuse and all this atrocious behavior but there was VALIDATION, Scientific evidence so on an so forth that they were sick...WOULD we still be stuck in ANGER or would be be able to remove ourselves from our pain and also see that while dangerous they are acting out of SICKNESS... THIS is an ethical/philosophical examination because NO we don't know for a fact what all this illness entails because SCIENCE/MEDICINE has not conclusively proven or disproven anything. WHAT WE KNOW is that we've been harmed and they're until conclusively proven...allegedly sick and yes, some us have in the past come up with these questions.... What seems to be happening is a communication breakdown... I think that for some, part of the healing is examining many different angles and it appears although I can't speak directly but from the way I'm processing the posts, it appears that this is the manner in which trulybroken is processing this and there is no right or wrong way...that outlines how we need to process this event we are all trying to heal from... She also brought up a very good point about syphillis patients... AND, in my research...WOMEN who suffered from MS years ago, before much was known were locked up in mental institutions and given electric shock treatment because they were believed to be mentally ill and making up their illness... Moreover, if you examine the psych industry...they do appear to have dropped the ball and many therapists just write off the PDI's rather than going further and studying...they cite what the got from thier textbook many years ago and do not stay on top of studies but rather rely on outdated models...this is why many of us as victims are equally STUCK without appropriate care in a therapeutic setting. The research is there on that too and the word is...not enough is known about PDI's... So, I get her argument/examination; however, having experienced this kind of debate before, I was able to predict how this was going to be received because it's happened many many times before. I think at one point, I myself was eager to get a "save the narc" campaign going while in the deep abyss of my despair. For self preservation, I've had to put that campaign on hold - but on the flip side...maybe if there were more questioning and demanding...then it actually may serve as a preventative to this type of abuse as if they were motivated to study and try to treat and cure, then maybe by default there'd be fewer victims...
Mar 12 - 7PM
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

Goldie, thanks for being the

Goldie, thanks for being the voice of reason in here and actually getting what I was trying to convey here. Sick of it: thanks, but you're off the mark on this one. Read below when I said I left him 7 months ago. I'm deep into my healing and I don't think questioning an issue means I am stuck! I left, never went back, Never took him back and was only ever willing to try to be his friend in order to get closure. At that time, I didn't know he has a PD, only that he was a recovering alcoholic. I've been sitting in the rooms of Al Anon for 18 months, which is pretty far into making the focus about me. I think what annoys me is how my intent of my threads becomes twisted to fit the perceptions of others. Best to keep my thoughts to myself.....
Mar 12 - 5PM
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Well another interesting

Well another interesting thread. Truly I get your point but I think the problem here is that there are many people on here in different stages of recovery. When I read your posts they suggest to me that you are in early stages. I read on down the thread that you want to figure out why you stayed. Thats awesome because trust me there was a reason. You had a role in it however your posts dont indicate that that is what you are exploring. If I am being honest you sound alot like myself in the beginning of recovery. It appears to me that you are always focused on him. It looks to me that you are searching for reasons to excuse his behavior or make an exception for it. I think if your really honest with yourself you will see what I am saying is true. I know this because I have had these threads and yes I was making excuses for him and myself for that matter that it was some how not quite the same. I really reccomend that you read Shari Schreiber's stuff it will help you find the reason why you stayed if that is what you are truly in search of. I know you'll probably get mad at me for saying this and trust me I understand because I have been in your shoes. Everyone comes to it in their own time and their own way. and Btw I have a very close friend with a son who has schizophrenia and while she loves him because he is her child there are many days that she just wants him out of her house. On many occassions she has said to me I dont know what we are going to do but he cant live here anymore.
Mar 12 - 7PM (Reply to #49)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

as I re-read this a thought

as I re-read this a thought came to my mind that I wanted to ask and I hope you dont think I mean this in any kind of sarcastic or mean way its just a question Im curious about. I am wondering why you come to the board? Are you looking for answers? comfort? venting? a confirmation that he is or isnt a Narc? The reason I ask is you seem to refute alot of basic assumptions about Narcissism and thats ok really it is. Do you think maybe he is not a Narc? I hope you dont think Im being mean or that I am insuating in anyway that you shouldnt be here that is not at all my intention. In fact nothing could be further from the truth I am just curious is all. You seem to be looking for something? I know you said you are looking at why you stayed but the posts are not indicative of that unless I have missed some which is entirely possible. Now that doesnt mean in anyway that you arent. We only see a limited side to what is going on with you.
Mar 12 - 5PM (Reply to #46)
ifinallygotit
ifinallygotit's picture

Sick of it

I appreciate your straight forward tough talk. I am in early recovery and I, too, waver back and forth between the horror of what a cold hearted ass he has been to women, to wanting to understand his limitations better, excuse his silent abandonment of me, and forgive him. My mind still is too shocked to grasp the bad behaviors...I do want to explore my own issues (mother is an N, not believing I will ever experience normal love), but I am not ready to face it all as this has triggered so much angst... It is an interesting point that there may be biochemical component that cannot be controlled but it really does not matter. They still wrecked our lives and we need to find and rebuild ourselves. I have not let go of my xN completely yet. He was my everything...Its so awful to know there is no cure and no chance of a positive outcome...
Mar 13 - 6AM (Reply to #48)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

ifinallygotit

You are doing great then! It literally took me months until I stopped trying to rationlize his behavior and I still do it from time to time. I was in complete denial. I could read and understand the facts but I could not incorporate them into my heart. When I think about it, its kinda of how the Narc feels I think they read about love comprehend it but cannont integrate into themselves so in a way I kind of know how he must feel. Understand? Its kind of hard to explain
Mar 12 - 5PM (Reply to #47)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Well all I can say is I spent

Well all I can say is I spent months reading,searching and hoping that some how some way he could be fixed but there isnt which breeds the question Why would I want to fix someone who has abused me?" what is it about him that is so great? honestly I cant really think of that much. So why then do I still feel so much attraction? You see thats what needs exploring. I too could not face it in the first few months. I could barely even function let alone start examining my own issues. All I can say is everyone comes to it in their own time in their own way. One day you just get tired of hurting. I have been fortunate in that mine will not speak to me and honestly it has been a true blessing because I just wasnt strong enough. Now that time has passed it is getting easier. If you stay away all it takes is time and you will get better. If you stay engaged it will never get better. It just wont.
Mar 12 - 4PM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

I have often pondered this subject as well

I wonder if they have control over their disorder and my research tells me that they do not. The nature of a disorder is that it propels people to act in a manner not consistant with the social norms and the fact that they choose to do little about the fact that they are damaging others is consistant with the notion that they are the way they are and unable to change to any substantial degree. This also ties in with letting go and not placing blame on ourselves. If they are sick then it is not our fault, we are not to blame, we cannot fix them, we cannot change them. Most of them have no desire to change whether or not they are aware of their disorder or not. They cannot change what has been ingrained in them for years and has now become part of their basic personailty. I personally see nothing triggering about this post. I find it to be a valid topic and have no problem with this topic. I remember in my recovery when I was reaching the point of readiness to let go of my PD, I became annoyed with posts which triggered me or I found to be going over the same material. This is a typical stage of recovery when you no longer want to rehash and this is great. People on the site simply need to be mindful that we are all at different stages and to try to resist the temptation to judge both the ones still in the anger or exploration stages as well as the ones who want to move on. All are welcome on here and we do suggest that if a post triggers you or you find it to be inappropriate to contact a moderator or Lisa ASAP. We will read the post and determine the appropriateness and work it out as a team. We go to great lengths on here not to censor anyone and as long as the post is not offensive or abusive we for the most part have not removed it or censored it. I find this to be a typical post and also an interesting subject. Whether or not they know they are destroying us or not is something which many members have expressed an interest in over the months I have been on here. I hope we can put this to bed and realize that what another chooses to focus on in their recovery is part of the process. We strongly recommend passing on making a comment on the style or length or anothers recovery. We all recover in our own time. Bear in mind that someone also has a right to suggest you move on if they feel that is their advice and as difficult as this may be to hear, we need to take it as their opinion and in some case you may find that they were right and in other case you may find that they are not. I am available if you need to futher discuss this topic with a message. God bless, Goldie
Mar 13 - 7AM (Reply to #39)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Goldie

Thank You for the post! Once again I'm flying to Switzerland!! Love you! Ideal!
Mar 13 - 7AM (Reply to #44)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Thank you

I love your posts, full of realness and your truth. You are doing fantastic!!! Have a great trip. Love ya, Goldie
Mar 13 - 7AM (Reply to #40)
Happy1
Happy1's picture

Ideal

See you there! :-)
Mar 13 - 7AM (Reply to #41)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Oh come on now you two! No

Oh come on now you two! No need to go to switzerland. You are entitled to your opinions and what you know to be true and you are entitled to voice it. Come on back to the states!
Mar 13 - 9AM (Reply to #42)
Happy1
Happy1's picture

SOI

Ok we will head to Texas
Mar 13 - 4PM (Reply to #43)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

SOI

I love Texas, Ill show off my Accent !
Mar 12 - 10AM
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

I need to point this out,

I need to point this out, pretty much almost every time I make a thread, the two same people come in and tell me I need to focus on myself. If you don't like my threads, move on and don't post! MOST people posting here are in recovery from the damage caused and talk about their ex's, and for some of you to be so self righteousness on HOW I should be healing is outragrous!
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #29)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Truly Broken

Im not understanding your point, Would you like to get better or continue to focus on what Narc has done to you? If you think I and others have not been through hell and back you are kidding yourself. I have made progress and have healed. You don't have to listen to me. Stay stuck. I have friends who had pointed out the REALITY of this situation and because of tough questions & Love I have chosen to find the path to heal and move forward. You think this a lecture? You are very wrong. Its called help in my book. Why are you so angry? I will pray for you tonight. God Bless Ideal
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #36)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Trulybroken and IdealK

I am stepping in the middle of this and asking that this stop right here... If you mutually choose to take it into private messaging...FINE... You each had your say...now cool it...as it does not have to be in the public view... If one or both wish to discuss this with me further...I'm also available via private message. BOUNDARIES...sometimes we won't always see eye to eye but there is a way to "communicate" and remain respectful towards one another...there is also the option to AVOID those things we don't feel we relate to...bottom line...RESPECT. Thank you...
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #37)
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

Yeah

Yeah respect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #35)
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

I'm not angry, I am annoyed

I'm not angry, I am annoyed by you! For someone who has many posts laced with anger and name calling, you sure are good at telling others how to heal. Thanks, not looking for the kind of help you're dishing out. Pray for yourself, thanks though (rolling my eyes)
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #30)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Boundaries

I think it is important that we ALL keep in mind (myself included) that everyone has the right to express themselves and address their healing at their pace. Some benefit from "tuff love" while others need a more gentle comforting approach. In recovery, one size does not fit all... I am growing concerned over the "tone" this thread is beginning to take and I am respectfully requesting that we we all check ourselves...and be mindful of the many different stages and mental conundrums the process takes us through. Thank you...
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #31)
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

Me too, delete this thread if

Me too, delete this thread if you want. It's been tainted ONCE again! And why would I need tough love!? PLEASE enlighten me on why I would need tough love based on my thread?! Fucking ridiculous!
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #32)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Truly

Censure is not part of this board...we all have the right to express our thoughts, feelings, and ideas and I think that Lisa would support my saying that the role of the moderators is to ensure that this remains a safe haven where everyone is comfortable expressing thier thougts, ideas and feelings without feeling intimidated. I hope you do not feel intimidated in any way by anyone's actions including my own if in some way I have inadvertently made you feel that way, I apologize. To clairfy...if someone says something that others do not agree with...we don't go in and "delete"...LOL that's not how it works it's a free country...we have free speech thank God! and certainly this is not how the board operates. My only concern earlier was the possibility of triggering that the topic might cause others...but I also made it clear that I didn't see anything wrong with the question at all based on principal...just that some might not be open or receptive and might react. So I hope that at least my position is clear and my offer still stands to help facilitate such discussion in a more "controlled" setting where people who are open to such discussion can participate if they so choose and this type of situation can be avoided...and again, I hope you really understand that I respect whatever approach you decide to take and everyone here is here to try to make sense of it all...and if you really do feel passionate about such a discussion, I would be willing to participate as I've been doing some reading in that direction myself...as a matter of fact, I found another article I was about to paste to you in a private message then this popped up and I lost the "cut" I was about to "paste" Hugs!
Mar 12 - 11AM (Reply to #33)
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

Why all the controlling? If

Why all the controlling? If someone cannot handle a thread, they should not read or post in it! Frankly, I am sick of making threads that keep getting hijacked! Delete this thread, really, no skin of my back! This drama is insane! really! I know I have better things to do!
Mar 12 - 12PM (Reply to #34)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Truly

It's not about controlling and the nature of this board is not as cut and dry. It is a recovery board and there are members here who are dealing with trauma in some cases so it's not that simple. Moreover, to say: If someone cannot handle a thread, they should not read or post in it! While under normal circumstances, a perfectly rational thought...under the circumstances, we're all looking for answers and sometimes land in places we didn't exactly know we'd end up "reacting" to... It would be the same as saying: Well, if the Narc was a jerk why'd you stay so long? Not so easy to answer...I'm still trying to figure that one out for myself... Although equally I understand the need for certain self imposed restraints as for me when I found I was triggered, I did avoid, but not all address things that way...and in confronting, it might actually be part of how they're working out their "process"
Mar 12 - 7AM
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

I think some of you

I think some of you misunderstood the point of my thread. I'm not trying to justify their bad behaviours, I'm simply saying, one day, they made find a reason for this behaviour. Please understand, I DO NOT want my ex back in any way, shape or form. I'm not trying to figure out why he is that way so I can go back or change him, seriously, NO. But if this is a serious brain "disease", then damn right I'm going to feel sorry for anyone who is suffering (both PD's and their loved ones), even though their actions hurt us. Keep in mind, they put people who had Syphilis in mental hospitals 50 yrs only to find out it was a bacteria that caused neurological damage, so until we really know, there needs to be a reason for the imbalance I have a medical background and am currently a Naturopath so I'm always searching/reseaching the "Why's" of imbalance.
Mar 12 - 8AM (Reply to #24)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Truly Broken

I realize you say you are no contact, Its seems to me you are too focused on your Narc instead trying to better yourself. If this man is the head of a Psych Dept. God Help us all! Yes, maybe they will figure out a cure, Right now there is no cure, Just like AIDS, Cystic Fibrosis and many other diseases. PDI feel fine, they don't seem to realize they have a problem, They cause us many problems, These people wont accept help, love or any likes of normal feelings. I cant figure it out and Im done trying, he isn't seeking me out to inquire on my well being, This man has caused turmoil in my life for 25 years I know what he is this all the closure I need. I have the answer to the insanity, Yes, Im sad but I cant change reality. I live a good life, Charity starts at home. How are you bettering yourself? Idealk
Mar 12 - 10AM (Reply to #27)
Trulybroken
Trulybroken's picture

I am focused on my situation

I am focused on my situation as is everyone here, including you! I'm not really a fan of your lectures
Mar 12 - 8AM (Reply to #25)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

IdealK

To clarify...I don't think Truly's narc is/was head of a psych department, I think she was making a comparison to a patient she observed... But your re-direction was pretty much on point... That's a scary looking "puppy" on your profile...I'm skurred... Hugs!