our stories have one thing in common

50 posts / 0 new
Last post
Oct 21 - 9AM
cluelessuntilnow
cluelessuntilnow's picture

I agree with the GirlFriend.

I agree with the GirlFriend. Honestly, I think they target women who are confident and strong. I posted this on another post, and I have cut and pasted below. Getting involved with the Narc is not a manifestation of unresolved issues (or to make it relevant to this post low self esteem). ANYONE can get involved with a Narc because they mimic normal behavior in the beginning. "Ex Narc told me I was "the one", he loved me, adored me, wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, wanted me to be the mother of his children. Treated me caringly and respectfully, was supportive and loving ....once I was in love with him HE changed. My husband told me I was "the one", he loved me, adored me, wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, wanted me to be the mother of his children. Treated me caringly and respectfully, was supportive and loving....once I was in love with him HE married me and has been a loving healthy wonderful partner for the past 15 plus years. It is almost impossible to discern the difference between truth and their lies. They are so good. It is their survival to be able to play people and to mimic normal social and relationship behavior. Getting involved is not the victims fault. Anyone can get sucked in, especially if you have no knowledge of N or Personality Disorders."
Oct 21 - 11AM (Reply to #19)
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

Wow! What a great

Wow! What a great comparison between your narc and your loving husband. This is so true. I agree that anyone can get involved with a narc because they mimic normal behavior in the the beginning, and I also to think they target confident and strong women. I know in my case, I had lived on my own for 17 years before I met my xnh, and was doing quite nicely in my independent life. I'd put myself through school while working full-time, and had been doing very well in my career for years after I'd graduated. I owned horses, did all of my own training with them, and hauled my own hay to feed them. I, also, built my own barns, fencing on my property, and the porches on my house. I even did some of my own work on my cars. Like I told my xnh when I first met him, "I don't NEED you for anything. Trust me, I can take care of myself. I may WANT you and your company in my life...but no, I don't NEED you." Looking back, that may have been the WRONG thing to say to a narc because throughout our relationship, he tried gain control of everything about me. My independence was just another thing that he took as a challenge to destroy. However at the time, I was not aware that he was a narc (or even what a narc really was). I am now alone again after nxh dumped me, and I can STILL take care of myself. He, also, didn't get to completely destroy the person inside that is really "me". To quote Donna Summer, "I Will Survive". So bite me, xnh. lol. Narcs are the "great deceivers", and they're really good it. The difference shows up between them and normal people when there is any indication of the supply's commitment to the N. N's promptly turn from Dr. Jekyll into Mr. Hyde, and the devaluing of their victim soon begins. In a normal person, love and commitment is honest. They love and respect the other person AS THEY REALLY ARE, and will continue to do so. Unlike with a narc, normal people don't see others as merely tools to be used for their benefit, and then tossed out like garbage.

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

Oct 21 - 9AM (Reply to #17)
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

Cluelessuntilnow..

WOW! You explained it exactly! Loved the analogy between your NARCOPATH...and your now wonderful husband. EXCELLENT clear illustration! It is true...it is hard for even the most confident woman who is dating carefully and being wise in her choices to decern the difference. These guys mimic 'healthy, moral, repectful, caring, loving & stable as if they really do possess these wonderful qualities'...they take on the 'valence' of the very type man we are looking for (and actually 'become that man', sometimes for a very long time)...the one we were always told would be 'the one'. Often low self esteem follows AFTER our relationship with these sub-human shape-shifting aliens...no matter how healthy and astute you are...they are VERY hard to spot at first. ...part of restoring our self esteem is learning about NPD and other psychopathologies...so that we can stop blaming ourselves and stop trying to figure out what we did, what was 'wrong with *us*'...or could have done 'better' to make things work. When we know it was all about THEM in a relationship with a distorted Narc...then we can start taking care of ourselves, and begin to recover and heal...
Oct 21 - 9AM (Reply to #18)
cluelessuntilnow
cluelessuntilnow's picture

the devil does not walk

the devil does not walk through the door with a pitchfork and horns, he comes through the door saying what you want to hear and in most cases it is what any NORMAL person wants to hear My husband would laugh his ass off if someone said I have self esteem issues. It is thing my xN hates about me is that I am confident and whole. Has he tried to take that from me? Yes. In fact, when they come off as prince charming we are making a good choice correct? They are pretending to be nice guys, we are not picking them because they are losers! We are exhibiting good choices because they are mimicking and pretending to be a good man.
Oct 21 - 7AM
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

The Honeymoon Phase with Prince Charming

To some extent, I agree with Michelle114, BUT not all of us start out with low self-esteem. Not at all. In fact many of these guys set their eyes on the 'prize' (us)...and that 'prize' is often a woman who is strong and successful too...I mean some of us are Doctors, Lawyers, Nurses, Business women, Real Estate Agents...Housewives, Mothers...you name it! Smart and confident gals!...until THEY get done with us...and messing up our lives. They are just SO incredibly good at masking what they are that even the very most aware person cannot recognize WHAT they are until they are already in deep. Then a personality disordered Narc will slowly, methodically (both subtle and blatantly) begin to tear us down and THEN we end up with damaged self esteem...where we were once intact and previously self confident. How come I think this? Well, my Narcopath's Ex-wife is a very intelligent, confident and accomplished woman...he utterly charmed her all the way up to the alter...and it was only right after that he began to slowly abuse and cause her self doubts. Without him, she is strong, successful and a positive person once again (took her many years to overcome all the hurt and dmage he had done...but she is once again self-confident as she was before she met him)...Same with his last GF before me...a very confident and successful business woman...after their relationship she was left in a heap...devastated too...and it took HER a long time to recover...now she is doing well....without HIM. HE is the common denominator...not the lack of self esteem! The lack of self esteem is the end result of being in a relationship with these sicko's! And when I met my NARCOPATH BF I was a positive & strong person...I am a trained medical professional, I was very confident, self aware and HAPPY...no lack of self respect, self esteem or etc. I am not saying I was flawless or perfect in any way...but I was solid and a very confident person. I even stayed that way for the first 2 years of our relationship...he acted out very few times during that period...and always 'apologized'...and because by then I had strong loving emotions for him...and because at that point he was always mostly wonderful...a GENTLEMAN and *acted* (operative word here)...like the kind of man your parents always tell you is the 'right' kind of guy...I 'forgave' him, and he was really 'wonderful' to me for the longest time... It was only after the first (and only) time that he beat me (almost 2 years into the relationship)...for no reason (read my story if you want in the story section)...that I was in shock and such distress...and after that his attacks, D&D, verbal and emotional abuse escalated...his mask had come off...before that there really were virtually NO signs...none at all...in hindsight...well, of course there were a few...but nothing that couldn't be 'explained away'...at first. It was cumulative...over time...just like the damage to my own self respect, self esteem and dignity. I don't think we all start out with low self-esteem...but I DO think we ALL end up with collateral damage to our perceptions and self esteem in each of our relationships with our pathological Narcopaths. I wrote ALOT about how wonderful my BF was when we were first together for a very long time...over a year before the dents in his Prince Charming armor began to slightly show...the day his mask fell off entirely was when my self esteem began to decline...shck & trauma will do that to a girl! Many of these guys get some sick twisted satisfaction in being with a confident woman...and tearing her down slowly, molding her into someone they can control. If you think it would be impossible to do...if a person had enough self esteem...well, take a look at how highly trained, VERY confident soldiers are torn down by brainwashing... If these guys can hide their true selves from even the best trained professionals...then how are WE to know what they really are...especially when they pour on the extreme nearly irrisistable ...devastating...CHARM. I think the equation reads like this: 1 Happy Confident Woman + 1 NARCOPATH = 1 damaged self-esteem ...HERS...and ours
Oct 21 - 7AM (Reply to #12)
jen79
jen79's picture

Girlfriend

Before I met him, I was successfull studying, I had a job, I was fit, healthy, good condition, outgoing and funny. But I learned one thing, being successful, being smart in buisness doesnt mean you are relationship smart, i thought I was, but I wasnt. I never was. And for this I really have to thank him, cause I learned alot through this. YOur profession, looks, conditions, being happy, sometimes underneeth this lies a damaged self esteem, that you are not even aware of. If I think back now, I was sooo confident, but I had a very low self esteem, thinking I have to be the most beautful, the smartest, the toughest, the strongest. And I was totally sure I am all these things. But Infact, my self esteem was based in things outside of myself, I indentified with my studies, with my job, with my looks, with my beauty, with money I earned. I wasnt confident in the core of my being. And thats a huge difference.
Oct 21 - 8AM (Reply to #13)
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

Jen79

I totally get what you are saying. I think I understand where you are coming from. But there really are many of us who did not have a low self seteem...at first. Not all of victims of these VAMPIRES have had unhappy or abusive childhoods, or past damaged self esteems. Perhaps some of us are vulnerable due to a loss or major change in our lives (loss of a child, loss of a job, a divorce, etc)...but this does not always equate low self-esteem. Just vulnerability...which is exactly what these Narcs are looking for...a 'way in'...it isn't always low self esteem, but I think it IS almost always that we are vulnerable in some way when these charming, manipulative predators spot us! I am not one to identify who I am internally with my outward exterior 'stuff', accomplishments, stature, appearance...etc., And actually I think the majority of us here on this website have a greater depth than that, we all know we are MORE inside...than any outward attributes, money, prestige we may or may not have at the moment... If you knew me and knew my life...you would know that to be true. Through anything I have experienced in this lifetime...my inner core dignity and self respect WERE intact. I never had self doubts about who I am and my value as a person. I looked outward and was not self absorbed...I truly had a good intact self esteem... and I am very aware of the definition of this. The reason I am trying to impress upon you about this...is because I don't want you to question YOURSELF...it isn't because YOU...or any of us had low-self esteem (and we do not somehow cause these guys sick perception and behavior...even if we DID have low self-esteem)... I don't believe the reason we were in a relationship with these creeps and didn't see what they were at first was because we were lacking in anything necessarily, and it may be more that HE had his mask of CHARM and sanity on firmly, these guys are incredibly good actors...as you well know as YOURS actually IS an actor! :-) ...I know this is one theory...that we all must have low self-esteems. I DO think we absolutely develope low self esteem when in a relationship with these NARCS...and that we are more damaged the longer we are with them. It is good to be self reflective...but I really don't want you to pin what happened in your relationship on yourself or to somehow think it was because there was something lacking in YOU. NO Sweetie!!! It was lacking in HIM!!! I know that you say you identified your worth with your studies, your looks, your money before he came along,... But just by reading the things you have written and your personal story...I can see that you possessed much more depth of character and self esteem than you allow yourself to remember right now...or realize! And I think you really DO know your value beyond all the outward attributes! Perhaps it is because I WANT you to know that you are so much more than that...once again. I think the thing we all have in common is simply that we each had (and may still have) relationships with seriously personality disordered NARCISSISC men (or women for the guys on this website)... In my case: Major painful LOSS = vulnerability + VERY Charming NARCOPATH = change in perception and damage to self esteem. Thank goodness I also know this 'damage' is only temporary. I may have some painful healing to do...but I WILL heal and be OK again without my Narc BF someday...and without yours...so will YOU. xo
Oct 21 - 9AM (Reply to #15)
CarolKittyGale (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

TG re: vulnerability

Very good point...... I find your theory about this has given me a aha moment. I was questioning my self-esteem issue and couldn't get my head round it as I am a fairly well-balanced person and although very caring I don't suffer fool gladly and always thought I had healthy boundaries. I'm not perfect, who is, but I'm strong and out-going sort of life and soul of the party type and I really love and care about my family and my friends. Narc #1 come into my life 4 years after my husband died and 3 months after my mother died and I hadn't wanted a real relationship since the death of my husband. He had known my husband and made himself almost a clone of him in his ways. Of course the real him came out and I left him. I didn't think lightening could strike twice and I thought I was clued up but Narc #2 wheedled his way into my life by lying to me that he had a close friend that had died in a car crash just like my husband and he had been devastated like I had. I felt kindred with him until I found out he wasn't close to this person at all but by then I was emotionally traumatised and in denial. Luckily he d & d me. So it would make sense it lots of ways for me that these guys play on your vulnerability
Oct 21 - 8AM (Reply to #14)
jen79
jen79's picture

Girlfriend thank you so much

for your post! This means alot to me. Maybe you are right, I was so confused, that I didnt know anymore who I am. To all these things added, comes a toxic working enviroment, which I had no problem to deal with as long as I was happy with myself, but after the N, the N chief took big adcantage of me and added his two cents to the damage that was already done. I think, looking back now, that being in this toxic work enviroment was the biggest of all reasons, why it took me so long to recover. Cause I was abused their every day, and I didnt leave. Thank god now I am now gone from this all. But I lost everyhting, and all I have is me now. I have to start all over again with everything in my life. I try to see it as a chance, as a new beginning. I hate them, I hate them for being the way they are. I think they all should be put in a camp, where they can kill themselves (oh boy this sounds so much like a nazi lool).
Oct 21 - 6AM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Yes...Yes...Yes

I will take two of those because that is in fact the common thread...don't care how well you think you are...Low Self Esteem is the core of this whole mess - whether it's warranted or not. That's my two cents.
Oct 21 - 9AM (Reply to #10)
cluelessuntilnow
cluelessuntilnow's picture

No No No...I refuse to label

No No No...I refuse to label everyone here as having low self esteem. You just told all of us that "we think we are well" but we are not and just fooling ourselves and it is at the core of the "whole mess" (i.e. our mess). We are human and we fell in love with a beautiful mirage who turned out to be an abuser. Our vulnerablity was that we opened our hearts ( which is what NORMAL people do when the fall in love) and trusted ( which is a healthy thing) and then we were abused. And why and how long we stayed and (some of us didn't but the damage was still done) could be attributed to a million things (disbelief, not understanding abuse and what was going on, not understanding that we with someone who was with a personality disorder and therefore could not be fixed, etc...).
Oct 21 - 7AM (Reply to #2)
jen79
jen79's picture

yes take the emotions and the

and the blahblah away, and the excuses, and watch what is left. BS is left. Just a whole bunch of shit. I am feeling a little bit low today. I feel low that they are the way they are, I still dont get it with my heart how someone can be that way. I experienced terrible abuse as a child, and I still have empathy for people, how is it possible they become like this. And there are so many of them right now, i see them everywhere and I am disgusted and disillusioned. And even worse, I dont have any relationship between my friends I could relate to in a positive way. They are all sick somehow. Its terrible.
Oct 21 - 4PM (Reply to #5)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Jen79

And even worse, I dont have any relationship between my friends I could relate to in a positive way. They are all sick somehow. Its terrible. I am coming to the same conclusion as well. I think that what has happened is that somehow, for whatever reason (I have to read this whole thread...LOL) Somwhere along the way we were "conditioned" to view dysfunctional behavior as "normal" and therefore accepted and tolerated unacceptable behavior...we attracted not only narcs as "lovers" but other dysfunctional people along the way. To put a positive spin on the situation we have found ourselves in, I think that the positive that comes out of all this is the face that it has forced an awareness to conduct a complete inventory of all our relationships and now that we are becoming aware and knowledgeable, we will be better equipped to determine what is healthy, what isn't and what we need to do to move forward in a more positive and healthy direction - perhaps "clean house"
Oct 21 - 4PM (Reply to #6)
jen79
jen79's picture

Michelle and onwithmylife

Yes their is a positive side to this all, we now can recognize unhealthy toxic situations and we can now label them as wrong. And unfortunately I label now a lot. I even label relationships of people who are happy in their relationships, cause I see that there is something wrong there. And I can do future telling about their relationships, and I am almost always right. I just would like to see an example of a healthy relationship around me, so I can find my faith again, that this is possible. What I am seeing now, is either a control drama, a codependence drama, or a covert abusive drama, or a relationship based in fear of being alone, or based in fear to try something new, so better stick with the old. I want to see a couple happy, with passion, with love, with respect, equally in love with each other, and from eye to eye, not number one and number two.
Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #7)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Prepare to be unpopular....LOL

I even label relationships of people who are happy in their relationships, cause I see that there is something wrong there. I'll tell you a story, I have a friend who on the exterior has a I take no crap attitude. I looked up to her, respected her, really took her advice to heart...wise girl she WAS.. Key word...WAS She's married has three kids. Husband had a TBI - that's not the point. She told me he's cheated on her, but she's into GOD alot and so looks at the spirtual side of things, acknowledges her hurt, but feels he has to repent to GOD. Okay, not gonna judge that - I mean we are human etc...can't tell someone how to address their marriage right? WELL...around the time I was going through my stuff, she tells me that she started to feel isolated and she told him she was feeling tortured by his silence, and ignoring her etc. He told her, I bring in the money you have the kids...ANY OF THIS SOUND FAMILIAR? So somewhere in that conversation, he beats the crap out of her. She then says she's divorcing him, throws him out etc. She posts she's "separated"...okay - I lost another friend we'll call her Jane (the friend was an asshole anyway no real loss) because on her FB post, Jane said "Well maybe you guys can work it out) this set me into insanity and I posted, "I'm not gonna judge you Jane but NO there is no working it out once someone hits you." Then I sent Jane a private message and apologized for outing them on FB but explained my position. So what does Jane do? Turns psycho and starts posting crazy things on my page...okay DELETED her. Now to the woman who got her ass beat, haven't heard from her, she's butt buddies with the one encouraging her to "work it out" WTF...people believe their own bullshit until it has to apply to them! I sent her a pvt message today saying, I will support you in whatever you decide but have to say, think about it. Sunshiney friends will tell you what you want to hear, a real friend will put their neck out and tell you what you NEED to hear. I probably won't hear from her but what else can I do? I said what I have to say. Thing is, when you stick to what you believe is right, although unpopular, somehow you get treated like a leper. Such is the existence we will have to lead, and become secure in what we know to be true, even if it's not popular. I don't know what on earth is happening in this world - it's all sick.... At least I find sanity on this board...
Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #9)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Prepare indeed :D It's not

Prepare indeed :D It's not the end of the world when someone decides to not "like" you anymore. We all reserve that "right". I would be offended at the boundary invasion, to be told I should or shouldn't "like" something. I just do or don't, ain't that beautiful :D lol . I still don't LIKE it. I want to be liked. It's taken me into my 40's to be willing to risk true compassion, because now and then, true compassion stings. And then people don't like it, or me, or whatever. If I didn't give a shit, I wouldn't bother, you know? I don't go around my personal or work life pointing out bullshit. It's none of my business, and honestly? I don't care about my co-worker's bullshit unless it starts getting on me. Otherwise, live and let live. I know for a fact that a few of my co-workers are . . . horrified? by my choice of lifestyle. Having poopy, stinky goony farm animals as pets. I even have a pet possum who lives in the house and uses a litter box. A couple of my animals have Facebooks and I make up conversations with them. It is a useful tool to differentiate who I want to be friends with and who will be a nice acquaintance, by their reactions :D . The more I am "myself" the less it bothers me that I am liked or not liked. Maybe it's that "if you like yourself . . . " stuff you read and hear all the time. I think being "popular" is not necessarily a good thing. I am learning to place more value in honesty, dignity and discretion than who I'm pleasing at any given moment. It's SUCH a relief. It doesn't mean I don't care if I'm liked or popular . . . I do. I just care more about what, to me, are deeper and more enduring values. I've found there are plenty of people who feel much the same way, and I tend to find them on forums like this :)
Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #8)
jen79
jen79's picture

Michelle

I had a gf too, that I looked up to cause of her wisdom. But I worked once for her husband for two months, when she was pregnant, and what I experienced there with him scared me to death. I remember going home and crying, cause I was so shocked, and he always held up a good face, they looked like a perfect couple. Now I know, he is a controlling and raging narc, and she lives in denial, some years later, they had a terrible fight, were he "just" kicked her to the wall and telling her, when she leaves she leaves with nothing, ment was, no flat, no job (she worked for him), no child, no money. But then she said, well we are pirates and we sail through wind and storm. After a while, they started to repell me, she became obsessed with my condition and not moving on, and she started to post wierd things on my fb wall, and writing messages, that crossed every boundary of me. I set my boundaries once, then twice, the third time I defriended her and blocked her. And I felt relief, I couldnt explain my reaction this time, I just knew, I dont want to see her or him again. Now I know why, he is a narc, she is a codependent in denial, and their false facade made me sick, her posts in fb made me sick, this kind of forced look we are soooo happy, we are soooo happy, it made me sick, I knew this is false, and if you are so happy you dont have to tell it the whole world to proof yourself. I dont speak up to the other girls though, cause I think its none of my buisness and their decision, they wouldnt listen anyway.
Oct 21 - 7AM (Reply to #3)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

I feel this too

I think the core issues is what Michele said, low self esteem, that plays a huge role, not so much as to how we got hooked BUT WHY WE STAYED and along with that, I might add, past unresloved issues from our childhood, for me my dad's death as a young teenager and never grieving for him came back to haunt me years later in the form of my EXN.
Oct 21 - 4PM (Reply to #4)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

onwithmylife

Thank you for articulating for me...yes, the fact is that at some point, we decided to tolerate the shit longer than we had to. That is an issue with US, not them.