our stories have one thing in common

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#1 Oct 21 - 5AM
jen79
jen79's picture

our stories have one thing in common

When I read all your stories ladies, I noticed one thing.

Due to the fact we just want to summarize what happened, most of the time we dont write about how he got us really hooked, with the emotions and the promises and the charm - we just mentioned it briefly.

And when we read our stories, dont you notice one thing? How redicioulous they all sound? When you were not emotionally involved.

I mean to read them without the emotional hook part, you think OMG this is such a jerk, how could she stay? What is so hard to understand, run away from this creepy jerk.

So is it possible, we all got hooked just by our own low self esteem egos, just because they said we are special and wonderful and the one, just to find out later, they tell this everyone they meet...

Its amazing how the mind works, how it can be so distorted, how we can be left with our emotions and thats it.

I sometimes felt like an ocean of emotions and thats it, no memories anymore, just emotions.

We need to write about it again and again, till our mind gets it, ladies. Read the stories of others, cause you will find yourself in it - just with a clear mind this time, cause its not your story.

Oct 21 - 11PM
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

Sadly, we have all been

Sadly, we have all been programmed our whole lives as girls to look for and expect that Cinderella fairy tale and then here it is in the N's. They are working it. So how many of us in life don't have periods where we are looking for something, where we are somewhat vulnerable to needing something? And there they are with the whole script. The ones who have profiled us so perfectly to love all of those things about us that we want and assume someone should love. They are con men at their finest. They are little different then the men who make a practice out of conning newly widowed women. almostlydia

almostlydia

Oct 21 - 7PM
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

I guess Im just seeing

I guess Im just seeing things from a different perspective but here's my question. To me it seems like why wouldnt you believe all those wonderful things he telling about yourself? I mean I wanna believe Im special and wonderful.
Oct 21 - 7PM (Reply to #48)
jen79
jen79's picture

Sick of it

I do believe it, somehow, the question is more. Why do I got so overwhelmed by it, that I throw all my gut instincts away. Why do I need anyone to tell me that anyway. Yes its human. The question is more, why did overwhelm me so much. It does make us vulnerable, I could have said, thanks for the compliment, and thats it.
Oct 21 - 6PM
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

I was told today something on this topic

I work at a University so sometimes I HAVE to listen to lectures. Today was a lecture on falling in love. (eye roll). Of course a professor was lecturing, and he said "We all fall in love with half of ourselves, the good part, but then when LIFE sets in, the REAl parts come out. Can your love stand the bad parts?" I'm thinkin, UHM, No! DRUGS THEFT IGNORANCE CHILDHOOD BEHAVIOR Yea, I'm good! So, does anyone agree at all with this professor?
Oct 21 - 5PM
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Wow

Great insight! Yes, it is hard for us to see the forest through the trees. Everyone I've told my story too, says he is a jerk right away. I NEVER saw that. I was so in love with him and thought he was THE ONE for my entire adult life. But you are right. That hook blinds us. It is the brainwashing. I didn't think I ever had low self esteem; but maybe I did. I was certainly unfilfilled when I met him. And yes, here comes someone who i adore who says I'm beautiful, amazing, special, and we have a special bond. And so we get, or I get, very emotionally hooked. And yes, I did find out that some of the very special things he told me, he has told many other women. That is the sick part. And I ask myself...."is it wrong for him to tell dozens of women or hundreds of women that they are beautiful and blah, blah blah". Is there anything wrong with that? Is it wrong for him to tell me he wants to take me to a villa in Italy and then find out he said the same exact thing, again to dozens of women? And this is just what I know! So is it wrong to flatter constantly? I guess it is wrong if you realize that you are hooking someone deeply and you mean nothing by it??? Ughh.
Oct 21 - 6PM (Reply to #44)
Nothanx
Nothanx's picture

Ya...It's wrong.

It is not wrong to say nice things to many women, but it is wrong to make someone believe that there is a chance at a lifetime relationship when there is not. If he said "hey I really like spending time with you, and I would love to go to a villa in Italy with you", that would be fine. If, on the other hand he says "I am crazy about you and I think about your beautiful face constantly, and I am falling in love with you, and I would love to take you to a villa in Italy so that we can consummate our love"...then ya It's wrong and misleading. I know the difference between a normal relationship and a really messed up one. I was married to a normal man for 14 years, and although we had many problems and it ended with him having an affair and leaving me for her...it was not abusive. My first husband did not do things to deliberately hurt me, in fact he went out of his way to not hurt my feelings. If I told him that something he was doing bothered me, he tried to fix it...not do it more. The narc seemed to never stop once he knew something bothered me...He made very little effort to stop bad behavior.
Oct 21 - 7PM (Reply to #45)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

nothanx

yep, mine was the "i miss you so much, you are so beautiful, blah...blah..going to the villa with you would be perfect". Keep in mind, this is 20 years of luring with this stuff going on all the time. And then I find emails to new women he is luring and he is asking them to go on the same trip with him to Italy. At least three in one month....5 years after he first asked me...same vacation plans. sick. And I agree, I've been married 23 years. We have no emotional connection, which is the key issue in our relationship. But he has never abused me. Never verbally abused, never projected, never lied, never manipulated, never deceived, never called me names, never put me down, never gaslighted, never paraded women in front of me....and the list goes on and on. It is a big difference. And do you know when Narc first entered my life? I had miscarried 20+ years ago. Husband didn't come to the hospital with me. I was distraught. I thought Husband was absolutely full of himself and no empathy (e.g. possibly a narc, but before I knew what it really was) Never talked to me about the miscarriage. But it is becuase he is missing that piece of his brain that has empathy. It is just gone. Ran straight into the arms of the Narc 23 years ago thinking he was my savior.... Narc comforted me and help me through that process... he was full of (fake) empathy. And wow. Let the games begin! And like you, if I point out something to my husband, he genuinely tries to fix it.... not do it more.
Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #42)
jen79
jen79's picture

loveofmylife

I thought about the same, what if he is just a man, who really likes and admires a lot of women. But I found out his emails, and he dropped the exact lines to any of them, gave them the same nick names, and they responded in the same way: Are you better? Or still depressed, please write to me? Am i the only women, you write that to? Will you visit me soon? Oh cmon! they dont flatter us, cause they like us so much and all the other women, they flatter, cause they like to have the feeling of controlling us, to play with us, they like to be admired by us - it is just an act, to keep up supply. If he would really liked me so much, as he flattered me, then he wouldnt have had forgotten, to tell me, he has a gf, he wouldnt have had forgotten to tell me the truth, he wouldnt have lied, he wouldnt have given me the silent treatment. If he would have cared as much as he pretended, he would have go sure, I am not hurting any further about him as much as I did. I told him all of it, I didnt go NC in the beginning, I told him how much I hurt, how much I miss him, I told him I am suiciadal,. He didnt give a shit about it, he came back again and again to seduce me and to keep me hooked, though he was with his gf all the time. You dont do this to persons, you like. Never mix that up loveofmylife...there is a huge difference.
Oct 21 - 8PM (Reply to #43)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

jen

are you the one who was asking on another post "is it wrong for a guy he is soooo gorgeous to have many women". If so, I meant to respond to you back then; because this is the same struggle I've had. N is the most gorgeous, fit, intelligent, fun, witty, caring, etc, etc person I've meet in my life. He is 51 and still draws stares from 30 year olds when we go places. Absolutely gorgeous and fun and caring. So he has women after him ALL THE TIME! Gorgeous ones! Successful ones! He has his total pick of an incredible array of women. And like you I wonder....he seems like he genuinely admires alot of women. It seems so sincere. And these women ARE beautiful and on and on. So what is wrong with admiring all of these women and telling them how incredible they are? He probably dates at least 5 - 10 each month and they ARE all gorgeous, etc, etc. But, like you.... i did find emails that were identical. Lines that were identical. He took me out one day at the beach and told me a very heartwrenching dilemna he was facing with his exwife. Something that happened 14 years ago. And I thought he shared this very deep thing with me because we've been "the closest of friends" for 20 years. But then I find an email where he apparently had that conversation with some bimbo he has been on two dates with! So he didn't hold in his feelings and only share them with his closest relationships like I thought. And then I saw another one about it! Something you really don't share with lots of people! It was very private. And I saw him email 3 women in one month! and ask them to do that same trip to italy that he asked me to do with him 5 years ago. So that is just playing with women's emotions. He couldn't have been sincere about any of it. He just wanted each of us to imagine how perfect that would be and obsess over him more. He is an expert at getting women to obsess over him. and I found the same lines: "please visit me soon. I promise I will be safe" (yeah right, like anyone wants you to be safe!) "miss you" "xoxoxo" "I grew up in an ego-free environment. what did you think of me" "you are a beautiful and intelligent woman. Where would you like to take this?" And I agree, the flattering is because they want us hooked to them and want us to adore them. They want to control us and invade our thoughts and have us be all obsessed with them. Yes, mine pretended he was available all the time. Made me think we had a future together and then started abusing me. It must have been a fun game to have me so completely dependent on him and adoring him so that he could rip me to shreds. Omg. I told mine how much he hurt me. And his self righteous self justified that it was the right thing to do. And he kept luring me in over and over again and then would hurt me again. He kept luring me in over and over again when he also had a GF. He just liked to pushed things to the edge to see how far he could lure me in and then he would slam the door in my face. He final D&D'd me so coldly and callously, it is impossible to imagine how close we had been for 23 years. It was like he didn't even know me.
Oct 21 - 3PM
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

Books to inspire positive change

It isn't often that I can say a book has actually helped me to change but this one did (still does) it helped me to see clearly and begin to challenge my own false beliefs as well as those imposed onto me by society. It is called "The Four Agreements" By Don Miguel Ruiz (he has something to do with the discovery of the enneagram too). It's a short and simple read but deeply profound. Another inspiring and potentially life changing read is Victor Frankl's 'Man's Search for Meaning' - a holocaust concentration camp survivor who came close to death many times, he eloquently tells the story of how his mind was his own and he always had the choice of how to approach his situation - dire as his had been. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran "That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

Oct 21 - 4PM (Reply to #29)
jen79
jen79's picture

OMG please dont mention the 4 agreements

This book was recommended to me now so often, and I hate it because the N has it in his fb "likes", he is even on the Dom Miguel ruiz awareness side on FB. And I hate him for pretending he is aware of anything, and using this kind of books to present himself as such a aware person. Ughh....
Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #30)
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

N's are good at observing what is 'real' they just can't feel it

Please don't let the tarnish of your N's inauthenticity about this book put you off reading it. Perhaps he decided to like it to keep you away from it because he knows there are truths in there!! Disentangle him from this book and there is benefit in its pages for you, no doubt about it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran "That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #31)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Amen to this

Jen, your exN wouldn't know the Four Agreements from the four types of goose poop (there are four, or five I think). What a snake, putting that on his FB profile. Another sneaky stupid N manipulation, like women are going to fall all over him because he "likes" a self-help book about relationships. God that's evil. My exN told me he LOVED the Indigo Girls. I took that and ran with it. He was SO "cultured" and with-it and understood passionate, imperfect love. That little trick of your exN's would have probably hooked me, the bastard. Triumph OVER him, Jen. I think you should get the book and read it as much to TRIUMPH over his poisonousness as to read the very important content and apply it to your life :)
Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #34)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Amen as well

Ah the deadliest evolution of the Narc, the spiritual Narc. When I say spiritual I mean pretend as with any Narc manipulation. Myself I was always a very spiritual person from childhood, had my own belief systems, but never spoke much about them, never read any of the books etc etc. But when the N came along he sensed this about me and started mentioning certain things that helped hook me in. Then he had this highly spiritual sister who had no problems telling you how gifted and spiritual she was. It seem to all revolve around special purposes, being gifted, being intuitive, being at a higher level, being aloof (interesting note, this is how a psychopath will describe themselves.).....BUT, as time went on there was also an obvious fascination with themselves. The scary thing about a spiritual Narc is the New Age jargon actually suits them, by allowing them to go around saying things like, its all about me. They just don't get that the "me" they are talking about is the outer ego and not the real I. Anyway my experience with these types nearly turned me off the whole idea, but really the things these people said just simply did not add up sent me on a bit of a quest to read all these books etc. It was where I finally found the link to EGO and subsequently to Narcissism. Anyway the point of this litany is do not let these types turn you off the idea of exploring or reading anything spiritual. It is these types of Narcs that have been hijacking all forms of belief systems since the dawn of man imo.

Nevergoback

Oct 21 - 11PM (Reply to #40)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Spiritual Narcs

I agree-they're the worst! Somatic narcs are all about the body, they have a surface appeal... but cerebral, spiritual Narcs toy with what is the best in all of us. They prey on people's souls, not just their bodies. Somatic Narcs seek bodily pleasures--but cerebral, spiritual Narcs seek spiritual power. The latter is far more dangerous. The ex-Psych professor described himself as "being aloof." He once said "I am aloof from life" and "I merely observe life, I don't comment on it." He called himself a Quietist. Now, there is a good definition of Quietism in Wikipedia--and let me just say it sounds a lot like the stuff he said (he was a plagiarist,not a single original idea) Quietism is about quieting one's own mind, those of others, clearing up confusion. The ex-P was not that way. Crazy-making, causing rivalries, lying about trivial matters... a quietist in words, but not in his actions. Somehow I've been writing about religion for the past 7 years. Imagine that. A decade ago, I don't think I'd be saying that.
Oct 21 - 6PM (Reply to #35)
jen79
jen79's picture

Thats what I think too Nancy

He will use the book, cause as far as I heard about it, alot about, keep centered and focus on yourself, and dont take critisism personally, it just projection from others. And dont say things you dont keep. How will that turn that out in the hands of a N. Major desaster, he now has a spiritual justification to not be accountable for his behaviour, cause if anyone calls him up to it, he will say, hey you just project your own shit onto me. Aaaaahhhh, thats such a mindfuck and so twisted, they pervert everything around them, even really good stuff.
Oct 21 - 8PM (Reply to #39)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

turning it around

My N could critize me in the most cruel ways. And when I would get upset, it was always "you take criticism too seriously!" Maybe he read the book. But there is a difference between constructive criticism and name-calling!
Oct 21 - 6PM (Reply to #36)
jen79
jen79's picture

And as I mentioned here once already

he told me about why I should send him boob pics. If you have a bad feeling about it, you must ask yourself, what do I like about it, then the bad feeling will fade away. I am sure he has read that in a spiritual self help book on how to see the positive side in things and on how to develop new believes.
Oct 22 - 8PM (Reply to #38)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Yikes...

Spiritual excuses for sexting? Disgusting. Somatic Narcs live by their appetites;they're human that way. But spiritual Narcs? They're worse, because they prey on other people's souls. One of my classmates said that the ex-Psych professor was using religion to make himself look good (he also called the ex-P the Devil, he wasn't even evangelical) This was the same one who summarized that essay as "war and war and war and war." If "war" is every other word in an essay about the Meaning of Life, run and keep running!
Oct 21 - 6PM (Reply to #37)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Self help

That is why i say they are the deadliest evolution of Narc, because they become supreme mind f*#kers using this stuff. Mine often told me that because I had chosen to buy a property with him and he chose that he did not have the same feelings towards it anymore that he could choose not to pay the mortgage...... OK WHATEVEEERRR. What the stupido didn't know was that my knowing of spirituality far surpassed his limited understanding. twat. Geez i was supposed to be gone. Better run.

Nevergoback

Oct 21 - 5PM (Reply to #32)
jen79
jen79's picture

4 agreements

Ok I will read it then. The bastard got exactly what he wanted from it, I saw after that, that alot of his admirers "likes" the book as well after he liked it. And alot of them like his music too, and the bands he likes, and the artists he likes. He is such a pretender, I would like to post here a link to a side with all his interviews, so you see what kind of pretender he is ughh.
Oct 22 - 5AM (Reply to #33)
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

Jen 79 - YAY!!!!!!

Great triumph over the Narc, I hope you find some treasures in the book. I agree with those posting above that spiritual narcs are the worst. My x co-parent lived in the same building as me with his then fiance - but he would watch out his window for when I was sunbathing and come down (pretending he was sunbathing or hanging washing) and talk to me - he found out I was into meditation. He was basically profiling me & lining me up as bait because he knew he was going to bail on his fiancee before the wedding. He actually showed up at my meditation centre with his fiancee shortly before they broke up, then he continued to come alone and took the advanced yoga course, asking for lifts off me to get there etc. Oh my goodness he worked the spiritual hook big time to get what he wanted - control over me! He wouldn't know spiritual if it hit him on the nose. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran "That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

Oct 21 - 2PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I've gone over this for

I've gone over this for myself and very much agree with Klarity Belle. I've never felt like I was "good enough", in comparison to what I thought the culture at large expected of me as a woman. Along with that, I despised many of the "expectations" that other people seemed to have no problem with. I felt isolated and alone, "less than" other people. I just could NOT bring myself to make those lovely picturesque dinners, or worry about the color and consistency of my hair, my pores, my extraneous body hair. I would "comply" for a while and then always had a tantrum :D where I pushed all that face crap/hair crap/Nair/wax to the back of the cupboard in the Guilt and Shame shelf. I didn't have much fashion sense . . . couldn't get my house to look like the magazine houses, or my kids to act like magazine and TV kids . . . lol.
Oct 21 - 4PM (Reply to #27)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

in other words,

You are an individual.... how dare you, Briseis! :) (wink)
Oct 21 - 3PM (Reply to #25)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Briseis

Sometimes when I read your posts I think i must have gotten up in the middle of the night and written it but then I see you wrote it and I think "hmm figures" lol.

Nevergoback

Oct 21 - 3PM (Reply to #26)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Ah, so you're the one who's

Ah, so you're the one who's been writing "my" posts in the middle of MY night :D :D :D
Oct 21 - 9AM
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

False Belief Systems

Low self esteem is a term that gets a lot of women's hackles up - especially those who are confident, successful people. I prefer to look at it in terms of having a messed up false belief system that has been fed to us by our families, our society and the cultures into which we were born as well as the weight of unacknowledged cross- generational family issues accumulating on our shoulders. As western women we grow up with some/if not all of the following beliefs which are re-inforced to us over and over again:- Prince charming/white knight from the fairy tales - we are princesses Barbie and cindy are symbols of great beauty to aspire to Soul mate/the one/pefect match - etc etc We are best at caretaking and homemaking but in modern society must juggle this with a successful career too - and not show the stress of it - be superwomen! We must be coupled to be viewed as socially acceptable - pressure from family to meet someone/marry/have kids etc This pressure increases as we approach 30's or God forbid our mid 30's and still no mate or children! We must honour the vows of marriage (even if we are living with an abusive turd!. We take the man's name - a kind of ownership, the vows themselves are ridiculous imo) The message of media showing us overenhanced photoshopped images of how to look, think and feel and what is desirable - our society worships celebrity hedonism and external beauty over values and kindness. This is not real and totally unobtainable. When a guy comes along who tells us we are gorgeous, smart blah blah - unconsciously we are bowled over because look how many perfect women there are out there and he likes me!! The physical identity is worshiped and the spiritual nature ignored. In spiritual nature we are beyond male or female - this has been forgotten in modern society. This weight of male domination/control hanging over us is referred to as the shadow king - the unconscious false macho beliefs we carry within our own psyches! A narc mirrors our own ego back to us - what we really hope someone else will see in us - our beauty (inner/outer). These false belief systems are so pervasive that we do not recognise them half the time or even question them. This has a huge impact on our core image of ourselves and our life goals/purpose. This kind of low esteem is unconscious and until we shine light on it and bring it out of the shadows to prove to ourselves that it it is completely false, then Mr NPD or Mr Psycho/Sociopath has plenty of chinks to throw his hooks into, even in the woman who presents as confident and successful, heck this makes her even more of a challenge! Then Mr NPD can satisfy himself with his overiding mysoginistic thought- "Weak, pathetic creature - she thought she was so great - so above the rest - I have proved she is just as big a sucker as any other woman on this planet - they are all the same!". This is the biggest false belief of all and it is time we challenged it by showing what we are really made of! p.s. "Do not read beauty magazines, they will only make you feel ugly!" (quote the Sunscreen Song) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran "That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

Oct 21 - 11AM (Reply to #23)
jen79
jen79's picture

Klarity

This is so true, these false believes are in us, and we are not even aware of them. And even if we are aware of them, sometimes we cannot let them go, cause they are so deep inprinted in us. Maybe I question myself, cause my enviroment is question me, people who never experiences any struggle or danger, or any trauma so far, who were never left by anyone, never disappointed. There is a covert accusation in that, that says, it is you with your low self esteem, that has let that happen, he is just a not so nice person, stop thinking about it. It is a second trauma that comes to that original trauma, the non understandment of people around us.
Oct 21 - 11AM (Reply to #22)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Traditional roles

The ex-Psych professor would make a big deal of his traditional beliefs. One of my classmates said that he wasn't ever fired (yeah, the ex-P got tenure 3 years after the D&D, he's still there) because he came across as conservative. Apparently my college became a hotbed for conservative ideologues over the past decade... and here's the irony, my conservative parents think my alma mater has lost its way. The ex-P got mad that I wanted to volunteer at a local elementary school--because it didn't pay. We'd argue in front of people. I ended up volunteering anyhow (well, it was MY choice) He wanted a career woman... he married one. He said he believed in traditional roles, but he'd go ballistic if I wore a dress. He was very formal. He was a misogynist... but he hated gays as well. I think he was more of a misanthrope, hating humanity, not just women. He emotionally abused a male professor as well. He thought women were supposed to sacrifice EVERYTHING for their men.
Oct 21 - 9AM (Reply to #21)
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

YES!

Oh DEFINITELY Klarity Belle! All these elements are there too! We as women, are cultured and socialized to think the way we do...and identify our self esteem with exterior things...in fact we are bombarded with this...PLUS made to feel responsible for the success and happiness within our relationships with others...with everyone! It is a real challenge in so many ways...to be a woman! We are held responsible for keeping virtually everything together...ourselves, our children...and everyone else's too at times, our families...relationships, communities...the PLANET! :-) And not only THAT...but we have to be 'adoring', strong, loving...excellent cooks...Ladies in public...and wildcat porn stars in bed! Yeah! There is definitely alot to get in the way of our healthy self-esteem...