How do you get the Narcissist out of your head???

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#1 Oct 16 - 2PM
Briseis
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How do you get the Narcissist out of your head???

This is a bit from a Q&A session with ole Sam Vaknin, the self professed NPD who wrote "Malignant Self Love"

Question from Aria

How do you get the narcissist to abandon your memories, the lurking, waiting to get you, I don't want to be modified by him and want those feelings gone.

Sam Vaknin

How do you get the narcissist out of your mind? That's what you mean?

Aria

You mentioned it above.... Yes....they cause so much damage, how to get beyond it?

Sam Vaknin

Living with a narcissist - or interacting with him for a prolonged period of time - is a trauma. The result is a post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
Allow me to quote one of my favorite FAQs - http://samvak.tripod.com/faq68
Also see: http://samvak.tripod.com/faq80.html

"At the commencement of the relationship, the Narcissist is a dream come true. He is often intelligent, witty, charming, good looking, an achiever, empathetic, in need of love, loving, caring, attentive and much more.
He is the perfect bundled answer to the nagging questions of life: finding meaning, companionship, compatibility and happiness. He is, in other words, ideal.
It is difficult to let go of this idealized figure. Relationships with narcissists inevitably and invariably end with the dawn of a double realization.
The first is that one has been (ab)used by the narcissist and the second is that one was regarded by the narcissist as a disposable, dispensable and interchangeable instrument (object).
The assimilation of this new gained knowledge is an excruciating process, often unsuccessfully completed. People get fixated at different stages. They fail to come to terms with their rejection as human beings - the most total form of rejection there is.
We all react to loss. Loss makes us feel helpless and objectified. When our loved ones die - we feel that Nature or God or Life treated us as playthings.
Losing the narcissist is no different to any other major loss in life. It provokes a cycle of bereavement and grief (as well as some kind of mild post traumatic stress syndrome in cases of severe abuse). This cycle has 4 phases: denial, rage, sadness and acceptance."
Some people, however, cannot get past the denial, or rage phases.
They remain 'stuck", frozen in time, constantly replaying mental tapes
of the interactions they had with the narcissists.
What they don't realize is that these tapes are "foreign objects"
implanted by the narcissist in their mind. Time bombs waiting to explode. Kind of "sleeper cells" or post-hypnotic suggestion.
If you find yourself in this situation there is little you can do to help yourself. You need professional assistance.

******************

Vaknin touches on "cognitive dissonance" but doesn't use the term. He uses the term "double realization" which I interpret as being the awareness of having two conflicting sets of thoughts in your awareness at the same time.

As far as planting crap in your head like evil "sleeper cells" . . . man, I just wanted to throw that in the TRASH.

But I can't. It's exactly what happens, so a damn good explanation for what it feels like.

That must be where NLP comes in to play. This too is something I am superficially familiar with. I need to get more familiar with it as it applies to the trauma experienced by victims of NPDs.

I agree that professional help is needed. But his turn of phrase turns me OFF, IMHO, he is a NARC after all, and gives his precious little "sleeper cells" a flourish of importance that I don't think they deserve.

Yes, the Narc "gets in your head". No duh. But simply getting educated and aware is enough to uncover those "sleeper cells" and dig them out. Therapy with a person who is experienced with traumatic, abusive relationships is also very effective.

In my experience, I didn't even know these "sleeper cells" were there. They operated as a part of my own mind. They were parasites that my body was fooled into thinking were "self".

The more I read about NPD, the literature as well as the experiences of it's victims/survivors, I began to recognize the "sleeper cells" on my own.

Oct 17 - 10PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Giving thanks

When I'm feeling down, I try to remember how POSITIVE the past decade has been without the ex-P! I try remembering who I AM.... instead of what he isn't. It's about giving thanks for living&breathing, doing what I love, having friends&family, a nice vacation in New England, living in the California Wine Country. And thanks that I have a job that's SO MUCH better than the toxic Narc-place of 5 years. Besides, Thanksgiving is coming up...
Oct 17 - 2PM
jen79
jen79's picture

Sleeper cells = brain ninja watch this ladies

Dane cook explains it wonderful what a sleeper cell is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlXuzIDaVvI
Oct 17 - 2PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Sleeper cells

I hope other folks join in here to describe what a "sleeper cell" is to them, when it comes to Narcs. A sleeper cell is what terrorists use to infiltrate the enemy. They are one or a group of individuals who assimilate into the enemy's culture and go unnoticed. When a signal is given, the sleeper cells comes bursting out and then you have 9/11 or the Madrid train bombing or 7/7 in London :( . There's an analogy in the minds of victims of Narcs and psychopaths. This is where I hope folks will join in, mine might not make sense :D We know Narcs get inside our heads, somehow. It's obvious, we think about them constantly, and wish we could STOP but there we are, thinking their thoughts about our own selves. It's like having little "sleeper cells" of the Narc inside of us, activating and wreaking havoc and pain and fear. How does the Narc get them in there? Brainwashing, NLP (I'm still needing to do more reading on this). Exploiting our vulnerability. Hell, when you just plain LOVE someone, you let them in. The Narc is a Trojan Horse. Looks like a wonderful gift on the outside, but is full of very destructive Greeks on the inside (no offense to Greek folks!). To me it's like being infected by parasites. They get in when you eat raw pork and the little worms take up residence in your muscles and brain (trichomosis). They sit there and emit toxins into you, making you sick. Your Narc (to Fierflie here) got inside you, because you loved and trusted him. Since he is a Narc/psychopath, he immediately knew your vulnerabilities and planted ideas in your head. One of the most obvious ones I can see, just from what you are writing on the board about yourself, is that you blame yourself for being so "bad", when you are merely reacting RATIONALLY to him abusing you. That "sleeper cell" activates and you start thinking that if only you had been more conciliatory, more accomodating, just smiled and gave in to him more, that he would LOVE you. This sleeper cell gets triggered when you are lonely. When you have these "thoughts" of self blame, honey, they are not really YOU. It's a sleeper cell. It is an evil parasite in your mind. It is telling you LIES.
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #11)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

wow!

thank you. that helps a lot! it's so beneficial for me to hear these things and I really appreciate your taking the time to explain them to me! it certainly does work well. even his ex's don't seem to really 'remember' why they left. they tell me these horrible stories about how they were treated, then they come back for more. and he snuggly told me on the phone 'jo beth wants me back. i told her she would someday'. that somewhat explains their behavior too, i guess. especially since they didn't get beat with a belt or treated quite as badly as i was. the whole 'bad' chil like thing is because I do have a lot of guilt for my part in the destruction of my 'relationship'. I was so childish and demanding. I really, really was. I was a total princess. I also was abusive after a while in my own way. I understand a lot of this was a reaction to HIS insanity, but just like I'm not responsible for him being cruel, can I say he's responsible for my actions? I want so badly for it to REALLY sink in that if I had of been more 'concillitory', or 'good', that it still woud have destructed somehow, but there were so many times when i behaved horribly, when it could have been a perfectly good evening, because i was drunk, jealous, or sad. I'm just disgusted with who i was with him. and it hurts. it hurts that he never loved or even liked me. so many of the women on here were at least liked. i know his x's were. I was just kind of used in a major way. like a commodity or a trophy. i have to find peace with all of these feelings somehow and i just wish i could organize them neatly, deal with them, and find a way to be ok with them. i just dont know how or where to even begin.
Oct 17 - 7PM (Reply to #29)
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

Fierflie,

Do you think maybe you were a demanding childish princess because if he gave you things that meant he really loved you? I'm asking because I want you to really think about this. And be honest with yourself. Giving you things does not equal love. Maybe since he didn't show you real love, but he bought you stuff, that was what you understood to be his love. So for you to ask him for his love, you asked, even demanded material things. Did you think his giving you material things meant that he loved you?
Oct 17 - 8PM (Reply to #30)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

MsVulcan500

no doubt. i think even if he would have given me sex, that would have been a substitue. i would have prefered it to material things. he was always free with fancy dinners and stuff like that, but really weird about giving me money for myself. i usually didn;t even have enough for the groceries and parking. he would say we were too broke and get mad at me for asking for more money, or for shopping at whole foods, then drop 400 bucks for a hotel room at the base of the ski lift and buy patron shots all night. I totally know I was doing that mr vulcan. the thing is it's still gross behavior. i should have known better.
Oct 17 - 10PM (Reply to #34)
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

Fierflie,

What I was saying was you wanted affection from him, but what you got were expensive dinners and ski trips. So for you, that became love. I wasn't saying that you wanted material things more than love. But you asked for more things because he had you thinking buying you those things meant he loved you. Because the more things he gave you, the more he loved you. So when you asked for things, you were asking for love. Because HE had you thinking that things equaled love.
Oct 17 - 10PM (Reply to #32)
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

Fierflie,

What I was saying was you wanted affection from him, but what you got were expensive dinners and ski trips. So for you, that became love. I wasn't saying that you wanted material things more than love. But you asked for more things because he had you thinking buying you those things meant he loved you. Because the more things he gave you, the more he loved you. So when you asked for things, you were asking for love. Because HE had you thinking th
Oct 17 - 10PM (Reply to #33)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

MsVulcan500

i think you're right. i got touched and caressed and complimented but always i could tell he didn;t mean it after teh first year. he would say condescendingly 'you're the prettiest girl here' and lead me around by my neck (literally), then take me home and be like 'do you expect me to put out?'. it's actually comical. thank you for saying that because sometimes i wonder if i'm just as shallow as he is. i certainly like having nice things and going out, but i just want so badly to believe i could be happy without all of that. thanks for giving me credit.
Oct 17 - 9PM (Reply to #31)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

MsVulcan500

sorry for calling you mr vulcan :)
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #17)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

You are beginning, you are

You are beginning, you are dealing with it. They can't be organized neatly because they are experiences and emotions and impressions. You don't need to do anything but give them RESPECT. And you are doing that by talking/sharing about them. I seriously doubt if you had a regular, respectful, solid husband that you would have flew off the handle like you did. So in a way, even when you had Princess Tantrums, it was the dynamic between you the victim and him the Narc that inspired them. I too am disgusted with who I was when I was with him. To this day :( . I still cringe when a memory comes popping up. The memories plagued me more or less constantly at first, and what helped me was to share them, talk about them and then add on that I behaved in this fashion because I was a victim of abuse, of brainwashing and manipulation, but didn't REALIZE it yet. I was just reacting, over and over again, with no idea that life could be any better than it was.
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #18)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

Princess Tantrums

i like that. it sounds kind of cute. and youeven capatilized it :) would you feel comfortable sharing a memory or two? its totally ok if you don't want to. you just seem really sane and grounded, so if you can act crazy, well... i KNOW i can. 'sane and grounded' are not the best synonyms for 'jenny' lol :)
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #19)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Briseis Tantrums

One night, after flirting all evening with me and getting me so horny I would have banged ANYONE, he got in bed, rolled over and pretended to go to sleep. "I'm tired." he said. This had happened, oh, several times. Evenings of a few glasses of wine, silly teasing, talking dirty, fantasies. And then he would disappear and be in bed and acting like I was some kind of disgusting freak for being upset he didn't want to make love. One night, I lost it. I attacked him. I literally jumped on top of him and started to punch him in the head. I was screaming, too. Filthy insults (I can come up with them) against his manhood. There are more. I would tell him the cops came to the house looking for him (they hadn't). He was so paranoid that it would send him into panics. That wasn't very nice. He came home after a two week meth binge and wouldn't "let" me scream and shout at him. He shut the door in my face and went to bed to sleep it off So I grabbed my big saucepan from Costco, kicked the door down (yes I did) and threw the saucepan at him as hard as I could. It hit him on the shin and left a huge bruise and skin tear. I had fantasies of killing him, toward the end. And I had PLENTY of means, he collected guns. That scared me more than anything :( . ETA: I forgot to add that I have never been in a physical fight with anyone. My little sister could kick my ass. I put up fly strips and cringe, I save spiders even though I am afraid of them. I have nursed wild animals back to health that trashed my house in the interim. I cry so easily. That behavior shocked me beyond what I can say, now. I can't say it "wasn't really me", because obviously, it was. I was in extremis. I was stuck with an abusive man who did terrible things to me. It made me kind of an animal :(
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #20)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

did he then tell you how

did he then tell you how abusive and angry and horrible you were? i kicked a door in too. the night he beat me with a belt. i came on to him and he pushed me away even though i was half naked, drunk and in stripper shoes. i kicked the door in with those suckers. that hole is still in that door. he tells people i 'kicked the door in to get more'. he has completely re-writen what happened that night. he beat me like a child or a dog for kicking the hle in the door and whenever he looks at it, he feels disgust and anger towards ME. i never ever hit him. but i totally understand why you did. that is sick and disgusting what he did to you. i used to lay in bed and try to use witchcraft to make his heart stop. i used to put a tiny bit of poop in his lunches!! LOL... i was crazy jealous of my best friend who was his secretary because he would act weird about her and was so much nicer to her than me. it almost destroyed our friendship because of what a shitty friend i was to her because of it. of couse he loves to talk about how i 'abuse' my friends. the night after he beat me, she didnt go into work, she took me to see a lawyer. she even wrote him a letter saying 'i want you to know i know what you did to my friend and i think its disgusting. if you would just see her how evereyone else does, you would never treat her the way you do and if it ever happens again, i will do whatever it takes to get her away from you'. this was his SECRETARY. his response? 'you're right. if it ever happens again, i won't be with her anyway'
Oct 17 - 4PM (Reply to #26)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Of course he did. And I

Of course he did. And I believed it, for a while. I'd hoped you would use my lovely examples as a reference point to reflect that if I seem "so grounded" that I too, under great abuse and pain, did similar things to what you've done. That perhaps you could have been Saint Teresa and would have behaved in very absurd and destructive ways because of the mind numbing abuse you endured.
Oct 17 - 6PM (Reply to #27)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Briseis...

Are you interested in making a little extra money? I need you to pay a visit to an old Narc..oops I mean "Friend"
Oct 17 - 8PM (Reply to #28)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I almost think I would do

I almost think I would do that kind of stuff for free :D
Oct 17 - 4PM (Reply to #21)
Nothanx
Nothanx's picture

Hitting

All those sleeper cells are crazy making! I too "flipped out" a few times with him! I caught him at the other woman's house as he was leaving, and I hit him and screamed like a banshee! Not to mention that I went up to her door (she lived with her parents) and banged on the door and rang to doorbell. No one answered...surprise, surprise!(her parents were out of town, and she is chicken) BTW...she is 42 years old and still lives with her parents...as I look back it was all so freakin high school! Another time he was mentally tormenting me, and I stayed cool for as long as possible until he said "I probably should never have gotten involved with you knowing that I am in love with someone else"! (This was after he begged me to marry him and told me I was the love of his life!) This statement was the last straw for me and I flipped out...I really scarred him...I threw his stuff outside, I kicked him in the chest, slapped him, and tore up a poster. I have never hit anyone in my life, so this was really scary for me too. Completely out of my character! It was like something exploded in my head! Of course he told everyone I was crazy and physically abusive to him!
Oct 17 - 5PM (Reply to #22)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

OMG!!!

I so did this during round one. I caught him with another girl getting out of his truck. I pulled up in the drive flew out of my car and started screaming. Poor girl she looked completely freaked. She said who is she? I started screaming TELL HER WHO I AM! TELL HER! he quietly said she's my girlfriend. I started screaming DO YOU EVEN LOVE ME?DO YOU? DO YOU? quietly he looked at her and said yes. He started dragging me by my arm into the house where he had to sit on me to keep me from hitting him. I was a raving lunatic. His friend walked the other girl to her car.
Oct 17 - 5PM (Reply to #23)
Nothanx
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Crazy

I really was crazy and off balance!
Oct 17 - 5PM (Reply to #24)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

thank god

He lives 300 miles from me or a guarantee you I would be driving by his house at all hours trying to bust him.
Oct 17 - 6PM (Reply to #25)
Nothanx
Nothanx's picture

The drive by

I had to make a huge effort to stop driving by his house and monitoring his internet activity! I had to cancel my myspace account and block him on Facebook. When I stopped all that shit is when my head cleared enough to eliminate him from my life. To this day I have to stop myself from going by his house to see if he is with the other woman! When I don't hear about it I am fine, but the minute I come in contact with him my head gets all fuzzy and I start having paranoid thoughts and anxiety! I can't wait for the day that I am indifferent to his nonsense!
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #12)
Used
Used's picture

fierflie

his ex,s wernt liked thats why they are ex,s... you reminded me a bit of myself in your thinking, always blaming yourself... i know my shrink said to me once...thank god you were not born when world war 2 started, you would have held yourself totally resposible for that as well... we are self blamers. if someone tried to throttle me i have no doubt i would think oh i shouldnt have had my throat showing...lol
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #16)
Nothanx
Nothanx's picture

Blame

I am different (but just as self destructive) in that I don't blame myself...I feel that it is my responsibility to fix them. Like I could fix that broken mess...I'm good but not that good! lol
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #13)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

oh, i think he liked them.

oh, i think he liked them. most of them left him. he liked them, he just couldn't get a long with them. me, he just hated. he attributed the ugliest qualities to me; laziness, judgemental and intolerant were two of his favorites, petty, childish, selfish, and drum roll here.... narcassistic. i think its hard not to internalize all of that. i really kind of looked up to him as a mentor, and so i trusted his judgement of me. how are you working through your self blame issues?
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #14)
Used
Used's picture

fierflie

with difficulty.lol i am getting there its hard...he didnt like them fierflie thats for your benifit to knock your self esteem and he has done a good job...they dropped him .why? b/c he treated them like he treats you, and one day when you are over him...and you will be...he will "like" you. and will be saying to some poor cow, oh yes fierflie wants me back... my narc said this about every ex he has[including the ones who got restraining orders on him] and i have no doubt whatsoever he now says it about me...oh used wants me back but i will see....they never give up supply so why doesnt he go. i dont want my narc but thats not what he will be telling people. your one cant go back..BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT HIM.. he has to tell himself these things, thats what makes him..him
Oct 17 - 3PM (Reply to #15)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

this x that he now says

this x that he now says again was the love of his life, he used to tell me he never loved. he also never loved his first wife, or apparently anyone else bt me. now he never loved me, it makes no fucking sense, i tell you. his x may just be crazy enough to 'want him back'. she's def histrionic if nothing else. and i mean bad. she's also a liar and two faced. not a nice person. he used to say things about his x he's still friends with to me like 'she sure deseves better than me' and 'she was too smart and good for me'. i was like 'oh! i'm just right! young and dumb!' seriously, talk about sneaky abuse.
Oct 17 - 2PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Hmmm, let's see.

What were my sleeper cells? They all had to do with making me feel diminished, less than, not good enough. No, that's not true. There were also sleeper cells that he could touch and I would feel on top of the WORLD. Just as manipulative and destructive :( Enough sleeper cells in your head, and they can play you like a piano :( :( :( When he "touched" a sleeper cell, I got a blast of pure emotion (pleasant or painful). That's how we get "got" by the short hairs. A blast of emotion will bring anyone to their knees. It is the most aggressive kind of brainwashing :( . I hate that some Narc has described exactly what happens (Sam V and the damn sleeper cells LOL). But who else would know better than a Narc? The longer I had NC, those sleeper cells were not stimulated, and they withered away from lack of stimulation. Just like a muscle that doesn't get used.
Oct 17 - 2PM (Reply to #7)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

briesis

can you explain this a little more?
Oct 17 - 2PM (Reply to #8)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Fierflie

what specifically?? I'll try :)