Is he now faithful to the OW?

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#1 Sep 4 - 7PM
OneoftheEXs
OneoftheEXs's picture

Is he now faithful to the OW?

Today is N dad's visit to our daughter. He came in very happy to see my daughter but did not even look at me or ask my mother about me while they were out. This is what I want, I want us to both just be indifferent to each other, but I can't help but wonder, is he now faithful to the OW that he cheated on me with? Is he trying to avoid me because he is being respectful to her? I never got this treatment, he had always maintained other women while with me, including the one he is living with now, who he maintained for 2 years while with me....

Has she been reformed by him?

Sep 7 - 11PM
horizons
horizons's picture

Dear OneoftheEXs,

The narcissist doesn't get "reformed". This is something that we need to always remember. Cluster B's are a PERMANENT BRAIN DYSFUNCTION. Therapy makes them worse, meds don't do anything, and a new woman only feeds his disorder. It would be like asking me if my red hair could get reformed with the right person. You can't change their biology. Their brains stopped developing properly and they will never change. If there was a narcissistic check list, this would be on it: making an old victim question why he's so much different with the new gal. It's what they do. How is he so happy without me? Why is he so much different with her? What could I have done differently? Make those thoughts shut up. Who was the one who called you perfect and amazing and showered you with flattery in the idealize phase? That would be the narcissist. You were perfect until he decided you weren't. He'll do the same thing with her. He's trying to torture you right now by presenting himself as calm and happy. You're still part of his sick games. Think about it: could you ever, ever, ever cheat on someone for two years without telling them, and not feel guilt? Could you ever do that? No. He could. He did. He will do it again. "Indifferent to each other"? He'll be indifferent when he's dead.
Sep 9 - 12AM (Reply to #68)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

jk

You make SUCH an incredibly good point here. I think I missed it. SHAME ON ME! "He's trying to torture you right now by presenting himself as calm and happy. You're still part of his sick games." SO SO SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mine HATED my happiness, he did everything he could to make me MISERABLE. If I were to see him somewhere today with rich wife, he'd be flashing her and himself all over the place in front of me, JUST TO UPSET ME. You are SO right! That helps me much in case I EVER run into them, but I work hard NOT too. That's their entire motive is to cause pain and they'll use every measurable means to do it, including taunting the last victim. Great post!
Sep 8 - 11AM (Reply to #66)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Exactly JKM

Don't doubt any of this for one second, they know exactly what they are doing and cannot stop because they are disordered and this behavior and treatment feels normal to them. My X told me a story about running into his old girlfriend who was now pregnant and married. He was on drugs, practically homeless, without a pot to piss in. Just to hurt her, he told her that he was getting married, buying a house, had a great job, and was happy. My son's father, a narc, also, said that he intentionally gets back with woman who go NC on him so that he can be the one to dump them. His exact words. I suck them back in and pretend to love them so that I can be the one to dump them. I said, that is mean, and he said, I don't give a shit, no one is going to get the last laugh on me. He must have forgotten that he told me this story, lol, because when he tried this on me, I had the headsup and I got the last laugh. This IS only a game to them, you are not the point, your feelings are not the point, they don't care. This is all about them. God bless, Goldie
Sep 9 - 12AM (Reply to #67)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

Goldie

WOW, can you stay stooooooooooooopid? Not only are they total douche bags, but also NOT very bright! LOL! Love it!
Sep 8 - 7AM (Reply to #65)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

If you were here now, I would

If you were here now, I would give you a thank you hug! brilliant!!!! so THANK YOU, here is your hug: HUG
Sep 8 - 7AM (Reply to #64)
OneoftheEXs
OneoftheEXs's picture

Another unrecognized NPD expert

JKM.. wow. If you are not a licensed NPD expert I think it's time you should.. I have always read that they never change but your comparison of biological change in your red hair makes it much more clearer. And you are so correct about the self-doubt they instill in us after they leave!!! How they get us to feel that way and continue to make us feel that way is sadistic! You know your post just made me think that his sick games is still getting to me... why do i care???. so what if he's now happy or acting happy, good for him! BUT.. and I GIVE CREDIT TO ALL YOUR RESPONSES to my post....I'm slowly feeling my anxiety is dying down. When he was here and the aftermath of his visit made me feel so anxious and insecure about myself again that I wrote three post here in less than 24 hours needing help!. Now that I have started NC again and reading all your post, most of it made me cry when I read it, now I'm feeling a bit calmer. He is gone.. and it is clear that is good a good thing. Thank you JKM for your post.
Sep 7 - 11PM (Reply to #63)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

LOL!

Great post! And sooooooooo true!
Sep 7 - 11PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

One

It's all very frustrating! The key is knowledge, I think i saw his picture in the dictionary where narcissist is!! You need to heal you, what he does is of no concern to you. You need to tend to your child, your all she's got! She is a gift given to you! He's a non issue, yuck! Be proud of her and who you are! I know its a beautiful narc free life for you and your daughter! Hunter
Sep 7 - 12PM
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

I can not stress enough how

I can not stress enough how irrelevant the OW is to our healing......she is the next victim. She can not make him happy for any great length of time. She has experienced all the wonderful things we have and will soon experience all the traumatic things we have. We CAN NOT keep thinking about her while healing. She is an object, period. We might as well stress over the new car or refrigerator he purchased while we are at it! Please take her out of the equation........continue to move forward with your healing. You are not experiencing any of this because of her, it is 100% because of him!!!! Stay strong! Forge forward!!
Sep 8 - 7AM (Reply to #45)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

SparrOW:)

Sparrow you are right. 100%. She is the next victim. But in my case, she is such an arrogant and self-concious b..tch, who called this on herself, that I have zero empathy. Just like she had zero empathy for me. I am just sad that I won't be there when she is going to realize for what kind of men did she fight for such a long time.... :))) They absolutely deserve each other. So OW is not always just an innocent little victim. Women are horrible to each other sometimes. We can't blame this on N... he just takes advantage on this with his sick mind as well while being busy destroying the current victim. I just realized he had someone when he was with me. I HAD NO IDEA. But my OW knew about me... so there are little differences, even if it's not going to change the end result :)
Sep 8 - 11AM (Reply to #55)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

The OW

We could go for hours about the OW. I knew my ex was married. I KNEW it. But I believed his lies and boy was he good! Let me tell you something from experience, this is what the disordered do when they are LURING you into the relationship. They LIE LIE LIE about their ex's and they tell HORRENDOUS untruths about them. When I found out that my ex was lying to his new target about his ex wife, the shit he was saying was unbelievable. Is it not a wonder that if there is still involvement on some level with the ex, particularly with children between them how the OW would become his HARD CORE advocate? Particularly if she knows NOTHING and is just listening to his sweet poor me words. If you wish to read up further about this, read "WHy Does He Do That". By Lundy Bancroft. It goes into detail about how abusive men LOVE to create triangulations and hate smear campaigns between women. Sorry, I disagree, when it comes to the disordered HE is responsible. HE should have been the one to work YOUR relationship, NOT she. She is a SYMPTOM of his pathology, just like YOU were and it's manifested in every single relationship he has. She will find out. They always do, don't they?
Sep 8 - 11AM (Reply to #57)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

AND she could have stayed

AND she could have stayed away. Simple because he was married...just because he is horribly unhappily married, he is STILL married. Would you want to be in the wife's shoes? I don't think any OW wants that. I believe lies here and there. The OW always thinks she is going to save the world and this is really arrogant. If I understand well, you have been on both sides of the story, so you understand what I mean. I also know that everyone is convinced now that I was mad women and he was a hero staying with me. STILL. Plus.. if he talk like that of his ex... what makes you think he wouldn't do the same to you? Yes in a normal relationship the involved parties should stand up for the relationship, but it's still no ok. I don't think that we can just say "Ohhh she is a victim too, and that's ok let's blame all on the psycho." Because if WE women, don't stand up for each other and DO NOT respect each other HOW could we expect MEN to do so? Sorry but this is how I see it. This game is not just on an individual level. But maybe I am wrong. Tony Braxton has a cool song: He wasn't man enough for me...it has it all.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_hKXk2qSuw&feature=related
Sep 8 - 1PM (Reply to #58)
OneoftheEXs
OneoftheEXs's picture

All in this together

Anabelle I was just going to write the same. When the OW contacted me and sent me demeaning emails, i thought to myself, this is a woman who has no respect for OTHER WOMEN, she should have known better. And to think that she knew I have a child with him should have at least mattered. She even wrote emails to me saying I'm forcing myself on the exN and using my child to keep him... WHAT?? You don't even know me.... well now I don't want to think about it, it was so hurtful, she is a total low life - I didn't even know why I even entertained those nasty emails. The point is, women should protect and respect other women. At this point whether you are the OW/GF/WIFE - we are all suffering from the same pain the N left us with and now we are supporting each other in this forum to heal - all of us moving forward. This time, we are all in this together. BUT I also said in one of post that I don't relieve this particular OW of this crime because she is an individual with a separate brain, she should have known better but she had her own agenda, which is to steal him, so she didn't think of me as person with feelings neither did she think of my daughter's future. BUT THEN, I now thank her for stealing him from me. If a man truly loves you, no woman could ever steal them from you, and that is the one worth keeping.
Sep 8 - 6PM (Reply to #60)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Protecting&respecting other women

When I declared my love to the ex-Psych prof (only to be publicly&cruelly humiliated&rejected), I did it thinking he did not have a girlfriend. He didn't tell me about his girlfriend in LA... and when she was revealed, I was DEVASTATED. He expected me to be ANGRY at her-but too bad, I wasn't. I sent the full force of my rage into his direction. It shocked the poor ex-P when his plotted triangulation ended up with HIM bearing the brunt of my fury. He let my mama bear instincts come out... too bad he was in the way. Then I started dealing out narcissistic injuries ON HIM PURPOSEFULLY. I was mean to the ex-P on purpose, setting him off balance, playing with his few shallow emotions, loading him with promises I knew I wouldn't keep... FOR THE SAKE OF HIS GIRLFRIEND. I was ready to fight for her honor, and he had to pay the emotional price.
Sep 8 - 2PM (Reply to #59)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

Very true. "she is an

Very true. "she is an individual with a separate brain, she should have known better but she had her own agenda, which is to steal him, so she didn't think of me as person with feelings neither did she think of my daughter's future" - VERY true. Just because we are talking about an N, doesn't make a difference. You could have been a mom with post natal depression and she would have still made the move, because SHE DIDNT know he was an N -not even you knew it. She wanted YOUR man. So.. it's just a lovely coincidence that she actually did you a favor. RESPECT is the key. You can twist it or turn it. That's the bottom line. Being happy on someone else's account...as Jennifer said it once "uncool".
Sep 8 - 11AM (Reply to #56)
WakingUP (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

No matter how much he lies, a

No matter how much he lies, a married man is a married man. They are BOTH responsible. She IS responsible too, especially when she blatantly flaunts it to his wife. That's just purposely hurtful. No one deserves that.
Sep 8 - 8AM (Reply to #46)
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

Annabelle

Make no mistake about it................the OW is not an "inncocent" little victim. She is the next victim. Period. That is my point, she is not what you need to heal from, it is him. My OW knew about me, knew me, knew our family, knew what she was doing........it did not matter to her, she pursued him anyway or allowed to be pursued. It doesn't matter, it is irrelevant, SHE is irrelevant. Innocent..............no.
Sep 8 - 9AM (Reply to #54)
WakingUP (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

In my little "quadrangle"...

In my little "quadrangle"... (for the most part - I'm just a bystander.) The OW makes no secret of the fact that she and Narcboy are together. She pretends to be "friends" with his wife. And has blatantly told his wife that "there's NO way" she and Narcboy could just be friends. There are SIX children in the mix. Narcboy can't afford a divorce, and the OW has a nice wealthy hubby, but if she left, she'd be unable to support herself, let alone Narcboy. WHO does that kind of thing? She is NOT innocent either. And then both Narcboy and the OW wonder why I don't like her. Mind boggling.
Sep 8 - 9AM (Reply to #48)
OneoftheEXs
OneoftheEXs's picture

Annabelle and Sparrow...

She persued him anyway is what happened to me too, knowing we have a child together means nothing, and she rub it in my face too - even had the nerve to contact me. It is a match made in heaven. Only thing I'm concerned about now is that my daughter eventually has to deal with the both of them at the same time when she sees her father... if ever their sick relationship goes anywhere.
Sep 8 - 9AM (Reply to #49)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

OneoftheEXs, Sparrow, WUp

PLEASE SOMEONE EXPLAIN it to me!!! WHAT IS WRONG with these women???? Really???? I mean... why is that for me married/committed men are just a no go. For others is just a keep it if you can, otherwise i take it game? Why is it, that these women could kill for an N???? What makes these women act so mean??? Really... I am a woman, yet... I will NEVER understand this kind behavior :(
Sep 8 - 10AM (Reply to #50)
WakingUP (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

In this case, I'm pretty sure

In this case, I'm pretty sure that the OW is unhappily married, and emotionally unstable, if not a Narc herself.(But OH, can she fake sanity when she wants to!) We were at a work related event when Narcboy and the OW met. Even from day one, she behaved more like a stalker or groupie. For several months, he was of the opinion that she was kinda crazy. My guess is that any woman who will worship the ground he walks on is IRRESISTIBLE to the Narc. Couple that with a bit of idealization from the Narc, and she's a ready made bull-dozer. Narcboy once said to me that he feels like he naturally attracts "crazy b*tches"... (another poor me story). And I'm sure that now I've been D&D'd that I'm getting labeled that way too. However, going NC has given him ZERO proof that I behave like a CB. I think she truly believes that he is going to "rescue" her and they will run off and get married. I told him that if he ever does get divorced he should stay single for a LONG time. He was quite vehement when he told me there'd be NO WAY he'd ever get married AGAIN. What makes these women act so mean? Lack of conscience, lack of empathy.... and who/what does that sound like??? Karma WILL be biting her in the butt. I can guarantee it.
Sep 8 - 10AM (Reply to #51)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

I am sure you went out with

I am sure you went out with my ex... we just didn't know about each other.... since I have the same story :))) From the idiot became the women he couldn't resist... I think it's not about him. It's about getting a trophy. A man who belongs to someone else. I blogged about this once. But maybe I am wrong http://30plusrockstar.blogspot.com/2011/08/shift-your-awareness.html
Sep 8 - 11AM (Reply to #52)
WakingUP (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I'm bookmarking that!

GREAT blog Anabelle - Wow. You nailed it. I never thought about it from the "getting a trophy" perspective before, and you are SO right. Even before they became involved, I could SMELL the desperation on the OW. Her desperation to be liked, to be included, to have friends in high places. Red flags were waving madly because she would share too much personal info too quickly in order to try to achieve some sort of phony "closeness" with me and others. But I was so naive, that I didn't realize that Narcboy did the SAME THING. Only he was better at it. No wonder he doesn't understand why I think she's conniving and manipulative. She's using him as a "trophy," and he's using her for NS and her contacts. Looks like Karma will not only bite someone in the butt, but will be having seconds.
Sep 8 - 11AM (Reply to #53)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

I told you it was the same OW

I told you it was the same OW ;) Thank you so much for reading my blog :) I was thinking a lot about this... Once I overheard a conversation on the phone with her... she was full of compliments... it's like.. she could read him... I was sick of that, I could see how he melted from those words... while I was sitting opposite at the table and she was on the loudspeaker... They were just the same...
Sep 8 - 8AM (Reply to #47)
Anabelle
Anabelle's picture

Agreed Sparrow

Agreed Sparrow, she is irrelevant. But not innocent. Sorry you have been through the same experience :(
Sep 7 - 1PM (Reply to #44)
OneoftheEXs
OneoftheEXs's picture

Sparrow.. sparrow

Thank you. I appreciate all the comments from everyone and for sharing all your experiences to everyone, it is truly an eye opener for me. You are right and i agree, sometimes i just need to get it out its too painful to keep it in - focusing on both of them to me means that somehow it wasn't all him --- he didn't really use an OW to further screw me over, did he? -- it's just evil. How could I have fallen in love with evil? Sorry i know its not him.. its the act. act or not, i still loved him nonetheless. Grrrr.... ayayayay.. geezz.... Focus on healing.... focus on healing.. I know i will be fine after this.. besides, we all want to feel loved and in our stories it seems that all of us didn't receive what it truly means to love someone from an N. Thank you all!!!
Sep 7 - 9AM
Journey
Journey's picture

No to all three questions!

No, no, no. "Is he now faithful to the OW that he cheated on me with?" - Narcs don't know how to be faithful, if he did, he would have not cheated on you for two years with her (and with others), but would have ended your relationship first. "but I can't help but wonder, is he not trying to avoid me in order to be respectful of OW?" - That is called giving you silent treatment - narcs never act out of respect. "Has she been reformed by him?" - Nobody, no matter how 'special' can reform a narc, a narc is disordered and until doctors come up with a cure, it ain't gonna happen! xo

Journey on...

Sep 7 - 10AM (Reply to #39)
OneoftheEXs
OneoftheEXs's picture

Doubting self-worth from exN's choices...

Thanks Journey, when I ask these questions, I ask out of sheer insecurity... because he has chosen her instead of me and our daughter.. it makes me think - something must have been special about her that he was willing to destroy a future with me and HIS CHILD - otherwise it doesn't make sense???. A friend of mine said "there is no area in life that she is better than you or will ever be, you feel this way because you base your worth on your exN's choices which is her, and he didn't chose her because she is better, he chose her because you no longer want to take his shit and he found a new one who will". It is difficult to analyze a situation that doesn't make sense... he doesn't make sense.. why would you or HOW could you do that??
Sep 7 - 10PM (Reply to #42)
Journey
Journey's picture

You can't make sense out of scrambled eggs

Which is why we must instead answer the questions for ourselves from the perspective that he IS disordered and it controls his words and behavior. For all intense purpose right now, it doesn't matter if he is a narc or not. You just have to filter everything you get from him through the perspective that he is. Narcs don't think like us, with our hearts connected. As soon as you accept it is only ever because of his disorder that he chooses what he does, you will begin to find some real peace in your head and that is when your heart can follow. If he isn't a narc it doesn't matter in the long run. If he isn't a narc you will know it in your gut vs now when you think he is in your gut but still have doubts in your head. We just don't process thoughts the same way as a narc, so therein lies all the confusion. This is why it is better to just assume he is, remove all doubt, answer every question you think about him with "because he's a narc" and THAT is what will fuel YOUR peace of mind and forward healing. xo

Journey on...

Sep 7 - 10AM (Reply to #40)
WakingUP (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Narcs are DISORDERED and DESTRUCTIVE

First and foremost: Narcs are DISORDERED. In Narcville up is down, black is white, left is right, right is wrong. (Scrambled Eggs, remember?) Fundamentally they are DESTRUCTIVE. At some level, they can't even help it. I believe that because at their core, they hate themselves so much that subconsciously they don't believe that they deserve anything good. They'll toss aside the most wonderful people in their lives partly because they HATE THEMSELVES. In their head, if you want to be with someone who deep down is so incredibly loathsome, there must be something wrong with YOU. That, and people are just objects to them. I believe that Narcs who DO find success - financial or professional (they will NEVER have a successful personal relationship even though they may try... they truly don't have the capacity) Do so because of a their will to win at all costs... but most of them get in their own way by exhibiting self-destructive behaviors. They don't make decisions based on common sense or any long term plans or goals. Only what is good or what they want for RIGHT NOW. I'm still trying to get my Narc out of my head... but my gut instinct tells me that whatever success he achieves will be very short-lived. I know that the common wisdom is that taking revenge on a Narc is never a good idea. But I do take some comfort in the fact that he really has no ability to make good choices - which is NO reflection on me, and I'll wait and watch my prediction come true. He will eventually take HIMSELF down. In some ways, he already has.