Are you sure he won't change for her?

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#1 Aug 9 - 12AM
JMi
JMi's picture

Are you sure he won't change for her?

My N spent 11 years avoiding settling down - when we did move in together it lasted 5 months and he started to stay out all nite and avoid me! But this was 6 years into our relationship.....

We broke up, we got back together....etc

Finally we got married but as u all know that lasted all of 6 weeks.....at this time we were house hunting but he'd always get out of commiting to a property.

Anyways, he leaves me for OW and moves in right away and they have a cosy little apartment together??

So its hard to think he hasn't changed for her when he's already commiting to something straight away that he wouldn't for me?

Another thing i'm struggling with is that i now know whenever we had these breaks (push/pull, hot/cold, silent treatments) was always when he had met someone else. As much as i don't condone what he did and think he's a complete dickhead.....we were on a break so i can't call them affairs? Or can i?

The only difference with this time is that he has found someone he loved more that he actually has made the break properly and chosen to be with her - in this instance i am not the more attractive option even though i was his newly wedded wife

I find it all rather confusing and i want to be at a place where i understand it enough to not care anymore????

Aug 9 - 2PM
JMi
JMi's picture

Thankyou girls as usual for

Thankyou girls as usual for your encouragement and support, another day of NC down and a little more enlightened! :) xx
Aug 9 - 1PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

They don't

The ex-Psych prof put me through emotional Hell during the final D&D. I wouldn't wish it on anyone (well, except him), especially the girlfriend who pulled up stakes&moved to New Mexico to be with him. The ex-P flaunted her in order to hurt my feelings (a friend of mine had just died)... instead, when I spoke nicely to her, he RAN AWAY. He pulled the vanishing act... ON HER. She was living with him. In fact, she still is (they've been married for the past decade) He'd hoover me after she moved in with him... I'd just IGNORE him. It drove him crazy. When I congratulated him on being engaged (the ex-P&I didn't get sexually/romantically involved,so I felt okay doing that),he threw a massive tantrum, claiming I had imposed myself on him&violated his oh-so-sacred personal boundaries (now I see them as mine to transgress at will) The ex-P and I lasted 4 years. We didn't get sexual or romantic. He wasn't my boyfriend. He's been with his wife (whose existence he didn't acknowledge when she was his girlfriend) for the past decade. Around the time I skipped town, he got her pregnant with twins. 9 months after I left New Mexico... she gave birth. THEN he married her. She might be as much as a Narc as him... I don't know. I'd say that the OW or the OM is a diversion. It's how the Ns/Ps treated US. The ex-P would've been a TERRIBLE husband&father for me. THAT'S what matters. How he treats his wife, I don't care. How he treats me, that I DO care about.
Aug 9 - 9AM
FINALLYFREE2BME
FINALLYFREE2BME's picture

No, he won't change

Don't worry. The new woman will either become the "Madonna" and be cheated ON or the "Whore" and be cheated WITH. Those are the only two options being the partner of an N. Good riddance!
Aug 9 - 6AM
bakingfortherapy
bakingfortherapy's picture

the OW...

JMi, One more thing.. There was a great blog a while back about NOT focusing on the OW.... Because in the end ....THEY.. WERE OUR PARTNER, BEST FRIEND, SOUL MATE, HUSBAND! THEY CHOSE TO PLAY WITH OUR HEADS AND HEARTS!! sick, sick, bastards!
Aug 9 - 7AM (Reply to #19)
Cgrl
Cgrl's picture

Maybe this will help

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/hes-with-someone-else-why-her-and-not-me/ Read this. Even if you think a guy is not a narc - a man who does this to you - well, its not normal.
Aug 9 - 6AM (Reply to #18)
bakingfortherapy
bakingfortherapy's picture

SCOOPS Blog...

Greta blog .... The OW..A Narcs Soulmate...from 6/28..
Aug 9 - 6AM
bakingfortherapy
bakingfortherapy's picture

NARCS CHANGE??

JMi, I so feel for you. I an so very sorry about the Narc and all the pain and devastation he put you through. You must remember above all things...He IS NOT NORMAL!! As the great posters said below, this individual is not a normal, rational, kind, loving man. They are sick individuals who are out for themselves. I was in love with mine for 11 years too!! (Bastard got all of my thirties!) After such a long time with someone to have it go south and then the terrible off/on mess is so hard for us to comprehend. I used to ask myself WHY and HOW over and over--they were the only two thoughts in my mind!! The reasons why and how do not apply to Narcs. They do whatever they want, to get whatever they want, no matter who they hurt as long as it SERVES THEM!! Mine is with his OW now too. Sometimes I still wonder how I got here, how the "love of my life" became such a monster...I used to wonder if she is "better" for him too. It will only be a matter of time with the OW. Maybe she serves his purpose for now but these leopards DO NOT change their spots. Dont you deserve better than just serving someone's purpose???HELL YEAH YOU DO!!! I know its tough. Keep reading. Keep posting. Eventually it will get easier. A new great chapter awaits! YOU ARE WORTH IT!! GOOD LUCK!
Aug 9 - 5AM
Used
Used's picture

JMI

DID HE *CHANGE * FOR YOU?....NO!!!! AND HE WILL NOT *CHANGE* FOR HER...AND HIS NON AFFAIRS WHEN YOU WERE NOT TOGETHER[BUT KNOWING YOU WOULD GET BACK TOGETHER..AND HE KNEW YOU WOULD]...IF IT WAS YOU WHO HAD THE AFFAIRS, WOULD HE BE SO ACCOMADATING AND UNDERSTANDING WITH YOU?......NO NO NO.ITS MAKING EXSCUSE FOR HIM......WHEN NARCS OW CAME TO TELL ME THEY WERE TOGETHER...HIS EXCUSE TO ME...WELL YOU WERE NOT AROUND...I WOULDNT HAVE LOOKED AT HER IF YOU WERE AROUND.....LOL.
Aug 9 - 5AM
Joy2me
Joy2me's picture

If he has made any changes

If he has made any changes it is not for her, it is for himself. Maybe he now realizes to "keep" a woman he must commit to living with her, commit to what she is asking for. But in the end he is just ensuring his new "supply" last longer than the one before. This is so hard to wrap yourself around, I know. But you must remember that anything he does that has a "good" outcome is for HIM, anything he does that has a "bad" outcome is for HIM. Everything is motivated for the benefite of HIM and HIM only. Nothing was, or at least not all things were done intentionally to hurt you. They just can't help it, they put themseleves before everything and everyone. Joy2me
Aug 9 - 4AM
Avid
Avid's picture

JMi

I totally understand your question. I feel the same way about my exnbf he put this woman number uno over everyone even his family. It seems like he is working so hard on making this relationship work this time with the recycled woman. She is not new supply she has been hurt by him before, but this time I guess he is going to prove to everyone that he can change. In the end we have to worry about our own health,sanity instead of wondering if they have changed with the ow. It hurts to see them trying to be Mr. Good Guy to another when they have left us in a mess, but we will get better it is just going to take some time.
Aug 9 - 3AM
JMi
JMi's picture

Cgrl - 'he walked out the

Cgrl - 'he walked out the door the same man you had' My new mantra!! Thankyou And thankyou Hunter - if you say i seem stronger then i must have improved!!! :)
Aug 9 - 3AM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

JMI

Actually I think you are moving forward! Your posts are different then they used to be! They are stronger! Trying to understand the mind of crazy is not an easy one. He no different with her than he was with you. You played the game for many years, now he just getting started with this poor woman. Keep moving forward you do good work! Hunter
Aug 9 - 3AM
Cgrl
Cgrl's picture

Better with her???LOL!!

He is pathological. He will ALWAYS BE THIS WAY. He spent 11 years with you. In that 11 years did he change? Was he NOT always like this - did you not make allowances for his behavior and brush it off? What do you think she is doing? He walked out that door the same man you had. There is no change. There is no insight. He is a little boy with a new toy - when that toy bores him he will move on to a new toy. They really really are this way. She is not getting anything that you didnt get. She is going to get EVERYTHING you got. That includes him doing some horrible nasty crap to her. She may look happy now but she is delusional. He may look happy now but he is disordered. Do not base your happiness or healing or anything else on how things are going for him. He WILL crash and burn. YOU will heal, meet a great guy, have healthy babies, have a wonderful, fulfilling life. Do not look back. Look forward. She has not changed him and YOU did not make him the assclown that he was to you. Ponder this - he married you, six months later you are getting a divorce- what does this look like to you from the outside? A man who cant commit. A man who has behavior problems. A man who is disordered. Luv ya honey. Hang in there.
Aug 9 - 2AM
OneoftheEXs
OneoftheEXs's picture

What matters is you

JMI, sorry for your pain, I have been experiencing the same thing for weeks now and yesterday exN left me a long voicemail he fell for her?? It was cruel to even say that specially when he knows I still feel something for him. But you know I was thinking, even if most of the post in here reassures us that they will never change for anyone. But if there was a miracle and they DO change for the OW? What is it to us? It shouldn't matter because to us they were evil, cruel, abusive, inconsiderate of our feelings. So what matters is how they treated US and not how they will treat the next one. We should just say "good for the two of you! but in my experience you are not the greatest guy so good riddance!" I fall into focusing in his new relationship as well and I want to know if maybe I am at fault and my insecurities come in and start blaming me!. He is happy when in fact he should be ashamed of how he treated you and now flaunting his new relationship, who does that? Can you see how he does not have any soul?
Aug 9 - 2AM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

JMI

Sounds like you are still processing...this is okay...eleven years is a long time go easy on yourself. I note you've been here a while, you do have at minimum a general knowledge of NPD so let's go through this...it sounds like the CD has got you in a loop, I will try my best. My N spent 11 years avoiding settling down This is because they seek perfection and we know generally are always on the hunt for supply - so being tied down was not practical... when we insert: *FINALLY* moved in together it lasted 5 months and he started to stay out all nite and avoid me! But this was 6 years into our relationship..... Time has nothing to do with it JMI...you became secondary supply the minute he felt he caught you and had you tied down. This is not a statement about you. The dynamics of the disorder, they are addicted to supply and bore easily, this does not mean you are boring, it means he has a compulsion. It was about power, control and conquest...his mission was accomplished, so he went out to hunt. It's that cold...sorry :( We broke up, we got back together....etc BECAUSE...narcs will recycle, and will continue to do so as long as the victim allows it. He's at an advantage when the victim is in the dark. We think it's love, they think we're fools and they use us as objects...they like the security of knowing there is always a plan B. Plan B's are rotated according to the whims of a narc. This is personal cause it's screwed up for us, but this is how they work. I repeat: They lack empathy, cannot love, nor attach. Finally we got married but as u all know that lasted all of 6 weeks.....at this time we were house hunting but he'd always get out of commiting to a property. The marriage took place because he had to appear 'normal' Narcs are about image...this creature never loved you but it does not mean YOU are unlovable, it means he's disordered, lacks empathy, CANNOT love nor attach. Anyways, he leaves me for OW and moves in right away and they have a cosy little apartment together?? New Victim a.k.a. OW is "NEW" supply...READ: FRESH MEAT. Unchartered territory. He see's blank space, a canvas...a toaster? He does not see a person in her either. He can't see this because he's disordered. A major side effect of this disorder...this CLUSTER B PERSONALITY DISORDER that will most likely fall under Antisocial Personality Disorder in the new revisions to the DSM in 2013 as it stands now finds him...UNable to love, or attach. Moreover, he lacks empathy... I've said it three times. Why? Because that is what trips us up. This is what is impossible to comprehend.... So its hard to think he hasn't changed for her when he's already commiting to something straight away that he wouldn't for me? Is it? Do you OWN what you know about NPD? Another thing i'm struggling with is that i now know whenever we had these breaks (push/pull, hot/cold, silent treatments) push pull/hot-cold is called intermittent reinforcement it is a technique Pavlov used with dogs...it is what you describe in laymans terms...crumbs are doled out..just enough to keep you salivating...like Pavlov and his dogs. (It) was always when he had met someone else. We say narcs are disordered, not stupid...this is not coincidence...there is no mystery there... As much as i don't condone what he did and think he's a complete dickhead.....we were on a break so i can't call them affairs? Or can i? You can call it emotional abuse, psychological rape, disrespect, exploitation, manipulation and if you really want to go for broke...let's shoot for attempted homicide...we really shouldn't leave out the AIDS factor when one engages in risky behavior, afterall, Narcs believe they are immortal super humans if not "God" in all their grandiosity and dive in head first into new uncharted territories on impulse all the time, quite often without a condom...they wear a smile instead and hiss the words: Trust me...that means he also put you at risk for STD's because he's slept with every other man and woman every other partner has slept with and by default so have you if you laid down with him...but we do need to remember...this is not a shock anymore because: NARCS lack empathy, cannot attach and cannot love so the same rules that apply to normal people don't apply here. The only difference with this time is that he has found someone he loved more that he actually has made the break properly and chosen to be with her - in this instance i am not the more attractive option even though i was his newly wedded wife I will repeat: Narcs are DISORDERED...as in Mental Illness...they cannot attach, do not love and lack empathy. This new woman is also an object to him. I find it all rather confusing and i want to be at a place where i understand it enough to not care anymore???? What have you been reading to educate yourself? Reading and educating yourself is the ONLY way you will shake this confusion a.k.a. cognitive dissonance...please believe me. Without properly educating yourself, you will be stuck on this mental conundrum. You have to read, read, read it takes time and even reading it does not mean we own it. I really do understand your confusion, but it's not enough to 'share' we have to do the work to really educate ourselves. Hugs and all the best JMI, it takes time but be patient with yourself...this is not an easy journey but you will get there...keep reading, purging, sharing and do your best to stick to NC. This man cannot love, cannot attach and lacks empathy.
Aug 9 - 6AM (Reply to #8)
bakingfortherapy
bakingfortherapy's picture

great info ...

Thank you Michele. This is great info. Its always good to remind myself about the facts and reaffirm why things turned out the way they did. Sometimes we remember the good memories.. Your good wisdom helps me to keep things in perspective.
Aug 9 - 5AM (Reply to #7)
SouthernGal78
SouthernGal78's picture

Wow... I needed to read this!

Thanks, michele115. I've just been reading through various posts for the past few days. I haven't been up for too much sharing lately, but I'm glad I came across this response. It is well said, and I know that I too need to continue my research on this topic. I'm currently going through this "stage" where one minute I'm mad as hell at my exN and the next I'm mad as hell at myself for putting up with the shit that I did and for so long (over 12 years). My exN is textbook, and I just didn't want to give up hope that eventually things would change... when his actions and words were EVERYTHING to the contrary. Geesh! Anyway, thanks again for posting this response. It helped.
Aug 9 - 3AM (Reply to #6)
JMi
JMi's picture

Michelle What strikes me most

Michelle What strikes me most about this post which i didn't even think of till it was spelt out in front of me is the sexual promiscuity HE practices may well have resulted in me catching anything - now i never even considered this - my own personal welfare or health!!! Even if i haven't, the fact he never even cared for this makes me want to go and chop off his manhood!! He has been my only sexual partner it seems so unfair that i indirectly have slept with more than i know!! I am frustrated as i feel i should be further on in my healing and some days i do feel strong and find myself accepting who he is and what he's done - then other days i'm still gobsmacked! I was away for a month or so travelling with a new job and it did me a world of good - then i come home and i feel stiffled by my 'old' life. Our town is small, our friends are mutual - i wonder if i need a fresh start further afield but i love my existing family and friends and don't want to seem like i'm running away from the reality. Basically i need to work out who i am and what i want after years of looking after someone elses needs!!!!
Aug 9 - 1AM
Journey
Journey's picture

First, all he's committing to

First, all he's committing to with OW is paying half the rent, second, he marries you and leaves in 6 weeks, third, his hot/cold push pull breaks were a convenient excuse to cheat without it technically being called cheating... ALL of this suggests there is NO WAY he will change for anyone - he is a narc! This guy conveniently pulled the silent treatment while sniffing around new supply. He is disordered and moving on quickly into this new relationship, does not mean anything other than he is being very typical for a PDI. He doesn't love her more because he is doing what he is, he is unable to love reciprocally and SHE will not change him. His disorder is not something she can do anything about, in the same way you couldn't. She will experience the same hot/cold push/pull behavior you did, regardless of how happy they look from the outside. Keep reading about personality disorders, there is a consistency in their behavior that once recognized, will help clear up your confusion and allow you to see him for what he really is and not the man he could sometimes be (while wearing the mask). This isn't about him not loving you enough, please see how special you are and know that there was nothing more you could do. Nothing is ever enough for a narc, they always run because they are afraid of losing control and relationships that require more attachment put that fear into them. (((hugs)))

Journey on...

Aug 9 - 2AM (Reply to #2)
JMi
JMi's picture

Thankyou Journey You're right

Thankyou Journey You're right i know that - it just helps for someone else to put it into perspective who has been in this situation. Very few of my friends know what to say to me as i never really shared how toxic our relationship could be at times. I hid alot of it from them as i knew it wasn't right or acceptable, so now i suppose when all this comes pouring out after years of crazy back and forth - they don't understand and its been 7 months since he left......some are sick of talking about him so i sometimes feel i can't Just spent all last night stressing about this after having 1) learnt of yet another affair from years back and 2) having seen a pic on FB of him and OW (a former good buddy of mine) enjoying a festival together with all my now ex 'mutual' friends who came to our wedding, got to me a little bit!!! They are as you say looking very happy from the outside and i so want to feel indifference I know its not healthy for me to be waiting to see or hear of cracks. I know that i need to focus on me and rebuilding my character, strength and life but i just can't seem to let go.
Aug 9 - 8AM (Reply to #4)
Journey
Journey's picture

That is brutal!

I can only imagine how it felt to see him with OW and all your mutual friends enjoying a festival. Personally, I don't think I could handle that either - even being 2 years out of the relationship, it would hurt like hell and trigger ALL the doubt I have ever felt. Go easy on yourself for this pain you feel, seriously. You mentioned above about traveling for work and feeling better. I know you don't want to feel you are running away or leave behind people you love, but you have a very difficult situation at hand if mutual friends are rampant like that. There is nothing wrong with getting a fresh start somewhere else if the opportunity is there. Being away one year, two years, is not running away, but if it helps you heal and have a happier, healthier life in a new environment, its well worth the immediate sacrifice IMO. Some may say that is allowing HIM to win somehow, but I see it as taking care of YOU. Skype and internet makes physical distance not so far away with those you want to stay close to. Something to consider, though don't misunderstand this as telling you I think you should. I just don't think worrying about how OTHERS would see it matters. You are in pain and surrounded by triggers. There is nothing wrong with removing yourself to heal, if that is something you'd be comfortable doing for yourself. (((hugs)))

Journey on...

Aug 9 - 2AM (Reply to #3)
Littleone
Littleone's picture

Jmi

Oh honey. I can Imagine how hurtful it would be to see your ex mutual friends, the same ones who were at your wedding- out with him and the ow!!!!! Makes me want to cry what you have been through, it's so unfair. And to answer your question- no he will not change. Think back to the earlier days when you were supposedly 'in love' (because as we all know Ns can't love) was there underlying currents of abuse? Was the real demon of a person there all along, just waiting to be unveiled? He cannot change, he is just wearing a bright new mask. You KNOW what he is. Their relationship will fail, Its a matter of when. But the things is- what will you gain from this relationship failing? The ow becomes another tear in his trail of tears while he moves on to the next victim without a second thought. I understand it's personal because the ow is an old friend but it will not matter who he is with- it's all an act, he will not change, he cannot love. You can. Focus on you and not the psychopath who has a new toy. That toy will get tossed aside the same as you did and he'll find a new one.