Do they love us, feel pain, miss us?

My response to this question:

I was just thinking about this the other day, my growth in recovery. How I used to cry or get so angry over the Narc stuff and now for the most part the emotional part is gone.

We all want to know if they feel, hurt, love. I get asked this question more than any other question. I suppose no one wants to feel as though they gave their soul to the devil or their soul to someone who was using them for supply and never cared. The notion that it was all a game and pretend, is more than most rational feeling people can take in the beginning. The beginning of recovery is filled with these questions and even as time goes by and we are completely educated on these disorders; there still remains from time to time those occasion lingering thoughts. Did he feel anything? Did he care at all?

The way my Narc described it was that he loved me, wanted to spend his life with me and never leave me. But.....he had some kind of a chemical imbalance since he was a child where even though he had the thoughts and the notion of all of that he was incapable of showing it in ways that others do. That he is damaged goods and cannot show or emotionally tell what the appropriate responses and demonstrations would be in a loving relationship, so basically the other person would have to just know this, accept this, and go with it because that is who and what he is.

I said to him: OMG you just perfectly described a Narc and he said yes, I guess that is what it is. I don't doubt that they KNOW they are different and that things do not work out the same for them as they do for other people, but they have no way of fixing this and what they give to us is the best they have to give. The only way they can function is to pretend that they feel so that we won't leave them and when we find out the truth they freak out and abuse us because they get so angry because they don't have any way to change the way they are and they sincerely don't relate to what we are complaining about because they don't feel it, they just think it and get angry and afraid of being alone, so they will do or say anything to keep us on the hook to avoid the void of having no supply. I believe it is more the void which disturbs them than the feelings of love, loyalty, and commitment. They don't have that because it is all about them and we represent supply.

So from all of this and looking at all the other narcs, it looks to me like they have the notion of pain, love, and emotions; they just don't FEEL them like we do. So he may have the notion of pain over you and missing you, he just lacks the feeling of it. Sounds like a horrible way to live to me and at this point, I mostly feel pity for them and I have a strong sense of wanting to protect myself and others from the damage of them.

It took me well over a year to finally get, that they don't feel and it is no reflection on who I am and honestly, I think they love us the best they can which of course is not enough.

God bless,
Goldie

Sep 18 - 1AM
Elena
Elena's picture

It's not love, it's dependency

I think that the answer to this question is - no, it's not love, it's DEPENDENCY. And when they find someone else that they think is a "better" option for their dependency, they abandon the person they are in a relationship with. If they run out of options to depend on, they may come back, but it is not in your best interest to accept them back as their motive is selfish.
Sep 13 - 2AM
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

yes i read this the, only

yes i read this the, only chemical imbalance that counts here is when you toss a verbal malatov cocktail at them as they leave. Destory the memories they will teach you nothing, throw out the memories and photos they will be like looking at a rape scene over and over. I have no problem to walk away from assholes, walking away from these people is not possible, we are stalked, we are constantly tortured and framed by these vermin. We fell in a bear trap and it took us year to get our mangled legs out the bear trap and we escaped with our lives barely hanging on by a thread. RUN for your life dont look back remove any trace of the faceless, spineless abuser.
Aug 8 - 5AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Thanks for sharing Rose

This validates what I believe; they love you the best they can which of course for most of us is not enough. Sad that they are suck in the little boy Peter Pan phase for their entire lives. I can take some responsibility for this too because I believe that I was stuck in a phase as well. The phase of wanting to believe in fairy tales and now I am slowly beginning to learn that real love is not like that for most of the people I have spoken with on the topic. Real love does not have those high highs and low lows that are so familar in the relationship with the PD's, that is what I was familar with and the solid more mundane love is perhaps what is going to be real and lasting. Just some more food for thought. God bless, Goldie
Oct 3 - 8AM (Reply to #29)
Lisa Mitchell
Lisa Mitchell's picture

peter pan syndrome

OMG...this si so true. my narc is like a little boy who never grew up and he admits this, he likes having no responsibilty. Just last week he told me that he only needs 22 dollars a day to live on and that maybe his Mom and I could split the cost.He was/nt kidding! He only thinks about himself as long as I pay hte bills and give him money he's ok. I work out of town 3 days aweek and he does'nt bother to call me on those days to see how I'm doing. What's my problem.I NEED TO STOP THIS MERRYGOROUND. help!!!
Aug 7 - 6PM
rosedewittbukater
rosedewittbukater's picture

I'd like to share

I know that many of you are of the school of thought that a person with NPD does not and irrequivocally cannot have these emotions but I think painting this black and white might be a mistake as it really is not that simple. UNDERSTAND I am giving the N a get out of jail card, a free pass, or even a hankie with which to pour their crocodile tears onto. But I think Kaleah has some great insights and there are alot of other great articles on her site which I found invaluable, especially for those that are seeking spiritual answers. Love and Peace, Rose
Aug 13 - 11AM (Reply to #27)
Jeff
Jeff's picture

Thanks again

Thanks again Rose, this time for sending me the link. That article really hit home. Narcs want the honeymoon. And they keep hinting for the next one...and can you believe what my narc's messenger user name is? Peter Pan. I kid you not. Big hug.
Aug 10 - 7PM (Reply to #26)
chimpy1985
chimpy1985's picture

@rosedewittbukater

That really is one of the best articles I have read i a long time. Thanks for sharing it!
Aug 8 - 5AM (Reply to #25)
StudentOfLife
StudentOfLife's picture

This is one of THE BEST

This is one of THE BEST articles I have read concerning this topic, and VERY helpful. I have bookmarked it and will revisit again and again whenever i need the affirmation. Thank you so much for posting this, Rose!
Aug 7 - 6PM (Reply to #24)
58 and going strong
58 and going strong's picture

Thanks for the link

Thanks for the link Rose! Great to hear/read some new perspectives. Love & peace to you too.
Aug 4 - 7PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

What I learned in Boston

I have a 2 year old nephew in Boston. He feels pain&misses people, but in a very basic, shallow way. Okay, I can't discuss philosophy with him... but he's not talking yet. Going to New England gives closure in so many beautiful ways... along with ripe apples in the autumn orchards, its lovely museums, the farmer's markets among the changing leaves. The ex-Psych prof, who also grew up in the Bay State, basically has a 2 year old's mind encased in a nearly 50 year old body. As one of my friends said "He loved you the best he can"--and she summed this up (during the final D&D), that it was a toddler's kind of love. She said I was the mature partner in the relationship. When the ex-P angrily accused me of wanting to be the teacher, my friend said I WAS the teacher, he was the needy, dependent, scared student. Due to his lack of maturity, in an odd way, I'm capable of getting closure in ways he CAN'T. My friend said I was capable of moving on in ways he COULDN'T. Another friend of mine said that when he threw his tantrum after I congratulated him on being engaged, he was like a little boy being dropped off at daycare. That being said... I'd rather deal with my nephew than the ex-P. *I* upgraded. He got replaced... with a toddler, and toddlers are SUPERIOR!
Aug 8 - 5AM (Reply to #22)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Lol, Susan

"I'd rather deal with my nephew than the ex-P." So true because at least 2 year olds are honest and they certainly let you know where you stand and what they want. God bless, Goldie
Aug 4 - 4PM
rosedewittbukater
rosedewittbukater's picture

feeling love

I think have struggled with this most. It is so difficult to accept. It seemed so real. I did feel loved at times.
Aug 4 - 3PM
heritage
heritage's picture

Goldie having a hard time

Goldie having a hard time with this one. I was promised marriage, told over and over he was the happiest he's ever bee, he will love me forever, never be anyone else, loves every inch of me. He wrote this to me in cards constantly and told me over and over. This went on for 4 years.Exactly 6 months before my divorce was final, he turned into a monster. As soon as our relationship was to become "legit" he abandon me, but first he had to degrade me then leave me for dead. Causing pain to others excites him and he set out to destroy my life. There was no love, no feelings, no anything but a devious man with a devious plan. He likes being the way he is because he feels entitlement in everything he does, including destroying others.You would never destroy a person you love. He destroyed his 2 girls also. They are competition to him and objects in his way. We are weak in their eyes and they despise weakness, people with feelings.
Aug 8 - 5AM (Reply to #18)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

How awful for you dentalas

There is nothing worse than the sense of lies and betrayal and to wonder if it was all a sham. Perhaps it was if he is also a sociopath or as Rose and I said, he loved you the best he could which was not much and as that link Rose added, he was fine when there was no fear or threat of longterm committment. Once your divorce was to become final, then he froze and became the scared little pup so he had to D&D you and get out. Who knows for sure. There is always debate on this. My belief is that a basic narc is living with fear, rage, and self instant gratfication and does not know and if he does, does not care how he affects others because it is all about him. A psychopath/sociopath/antisocial, http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=438 This link was provided by nemesis on the forum, thanks nemesis. "gets off" on hurting you. I have known many narcs who hurt and abuse, however, they don't necessarily "get off" on it and do it on purpose, it is more a byproduct of their disorder and their need to always put themselves first, where as an antisocial appears to enjoy the pain they inflict on others, it makes them feel in control and superior to you. Anyway you slice it, a relationship with a PD is STILL not going to work and you are STILL left holding the bag when they are either done with you or run and hide with their intense fear of intimacy. Just always remember that as much as it hurts and it will for awhile, this is not your fault and you did nothing to cause this. They just do not have it to give and my deepest prayers are with you as you heal and recover from the betrayal of giving your heart and love to a PD incapable of returning this back to you. God bless, Goldie
Oct 3 - 8AM (Reply to #19)
Lisa Mitchell
Lisa Mitchell's picture

fear of intimacy

I just told my narc that it's pointless to try to have a serious conversation with him. He never ask how did your day go..how are your kids doing...ect everytime I try to talk about what's bothering me he changes the subject.Just recently I told he how worried I was about my daughter;in;law she's expecting my first grandchild and is a high risk preganancy. he said I don't give a f,,, about her or the baby. only later to say baby I didn't mean that.Every time I try to talk about his behavior he gets mad and cusses me out I'm really not a stupid person only when he comes to him do I loss all sense of sanity. I'M trying to get it in my head and heart that I must break all ties with him but I'm having a difficult time with it.One would think after all the bs he's pit me thru that it would be easy to break all ties but for whatever reason I can't. I feel like I'm paralzed by fear.I full of fear of being alone but really I am alone with him. Sure we have fun hiking fishing ect...but when it comes down to the really important things like paying bills spending time with family telling the truth I can't depend on him. AT 45 this is not where I expected to be in my life, I feel so lost.
Aug 5 - 7AM (Reply to #17)
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

Dentalas

They are cockroaches! go on google and research cockroaches it will give you an idea of how hard it is to rid yourself of them... Hugs!
Aug 4 - 5PM (Reply to #7)
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

Dentalas

I know 100% what you mean! I went through the same. I was his soulmate he said the big love of his life. yet as soon as he faced marriage to me after 8 years together. He turned mean and cruel and abusive it was so terrible and nearly killed me. I do believe now that he had a cunning plan from the day we met. He reprogrammed me to not have needs myself but to raise him above me. Once he knew I had had needs and he had to respond, he turned into a monster, and D an D d me turned his family, my friends everyone against me. It was shocking and I know how you feel. You are right they despise people with feelings, because they have no feelings. he got so furious with me he couldnt see how I could get upset when other people let me down. He would say why do you give a shit about them your an idiot to care, I dont, and I dont forgive people ever. There were many red flags, but I never saw them. I was too confused by his CD.
Aug 5 - 2AM (Reply to #12)
badjer
badjer's picture

This is really stunning me.

This is really stunning me. I was / am (technically) married, soon to do divorce papers, and I was seeing my ex for 15 months or so while married. All the while, he was saying he had never known love like it before, we talked baby names, where we would live, you name it. Then, when the divorce didn't happen soon enough, he started to get nasty and started turning the screw to force it. He then went too far with his bullying and drove me off for 5 months. Played silly buggers to get back my attention, emails here and there, returning some of my things. Then I foolishly put it on the grapevine that I was getting divorced, because I was so desperate to hear from him. He emailed, a bit more to-ing and fro-ing and then I invited him out to talk and chat. He showed up all keen and happy and like he couldn't believe his luck. I don't know what he expected but I clearly didn't give him what he thought should have been there because, by date 2, he had gone cold and was riddled with doubts. 11 days after that he finished it by voicemail and followed up with a confirmatory text. Didn't even bother to respond to my heartfelt email in response. My friends have interchangeably said he got cold feet, he got scared, he needed to dump me because he saw it coming, etc etc. I think cold feet was a part of it, although he swore last year that cold feet was not the reason when he played dumping me back then. Here's the weird thing: last October, he seemed to be sure it was over because of all the "damage and destruction" he had done and even when I gave him an olive branch, he didn't take it. So I went ice cold NC for 5 months. When we then met up again, he said "I never expected us to break up. I didn't see it coming…" But that date, he talked as if it had been all his idea?? And if he never saw it coming, why did he insist last October that he had "done too much damage"?? A duality of purpose? get in there first, talk about it being over first so he is in control of the final ending? That was my mother's belief.
Aug 8 - 6AM (Reply to #16)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

I agree with your mother

Once they think you are getting the upper hand and it doesn't take much for them to think this. They have to be the one to end it, it's a sick game. Who broke up with who. Let's see if I can suck her back in then I can be the one to end it and I am back in control. I feel sorry for his XGF, she is in for another horrible ride with this joker. Regardless to which PD he has and it sounds like he has plenty, he is still a complete asshole lying sack of shit and you are fortuanate that you got out BEFORE you married him. Thank God. God bless, Goldie
Aug 5 - 6AM (Reply to #15)
heritage
heritage's picture

badge

Interesting. My therapist thinks he was pushing my divorce so he could put is D&D together because as soon as I filed he turned into a monster. In a normal relationship you would be even closer to the one you love knowing they will be free in 6 months. It was the opposite. It was so obvious. And once they marry you, you become imprisioned. The game is over. They are manipulative and their overall plan is to destroy and discard. He had no intention of spending his life with me. It was a lie, a facade. He was a ficticious man.
Aug 5 - 4AM (Reply to #13)
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

whatever their explanation or

whatever their explanation or reasoning its all lies and bull and if you try to make sense of that its all crap. Why believe anything they are pathological liars and will give you whatever reason suits them? as soon as you go there youre sunk. There is no sense dont ask normal peoples advice they cant help you. Read the sociopath next door by Martha Stout.
Aug 5 - 6AM (Reply to #14)
heritage
heritage's picture

fooled

You're right. It is all lies and bs. They are pathological liars and emotinally retarded. Let them feed their BS to another. We have learned the hard way. I have washed my hands of the sicko I was with. He was so undeserving of me. When the mask came off I would have never been attracted to someone that acted like that and they know it! DEceptive ah's!
Aug 4 - 6PM (Reply to #8)
heritage
heritage's picture

fooled

Omg fooled. Ours did the same thing to us. During his divorce I was right by his side. I supported him through it, never stopped loving him always listened to him ,etc. NOT the same for him. As my divorce gets closer his stops calling me to and from work (did this for 4 years) and when I asked him why his response "I'm just waiting on the sidelines until your divorce." AH. I said to him "Sidelines! I need your suppport." Then when I was over his house on weekends I would make dinner, clean and thenh he would hand me the remote and say "I have work to do" and go in the other room and get on his computer. He's a dentist. No work on his compouter. So I would sit by myself in his den. This was all part of his D&D. Whenever I was at his housr he treated me like gold. All before divorce was months away. It was the worst. Then I asked him why he wasn't calling me as much at night and he responds"I don't like talking on the phone." Oh come on! Since when. Again, D&D. It was the worst. But during the 4 years he wanted to be with me every second, smothered me with his so called love, called and texted me constantly, met every day for lunch at his office, etc. So he stayed with me while married and pulled the plug 6 months before my divorce and then smeared me. Told his office and family and friends I am nuts like his ex. # weeks after he destroyed me I saw him at a hockey game with his old gf from 7 years ago. Pathetic. He told me he was laying aroiund in his dark basement after our breakup. BS, My friends saw hium every weekend in Atlantic City talking to the bartenders. He is still with old gf. He is putting her up on the pedestal. Same old crap. No feelings. Jusdt someone to pal around with and have sex with. He is devoid of emotion except for anger. Fooled there were red flags also but I believed his words more than his actions. It should be the other way around. He was constantly saying how much he loved me, missed me but his actions stopped showing it. It was all part of his destgructive path. He has screwed my head up. His ex attmpted suicide 3 times from him. She was in a clinic for 3 weeks. She is great now. He's the worst and I will never forgive him and I wish him nothing but the worst in life. He threw away his kids also. I donm't know how the ah looks in the mirror.
Aug 4 - 6PM (Reply to #9)
heritage
heritage's picture

fooled

Also, fooled when you loook back on things I wish I would have walked. I packed everything in Oct and told him I was done and he begged me. so I stayed and he ditched me the following month. And even in the end he told me I did this. I ruined it. He said "I never thought our relationship would end>" Oh opk, first of all you did it and second of all 3 weeks later you are with old gf, dangling on your arm. Hmmm.. but he was going to marry my and there would never be another. He had me trying on engagement rings in Tiffany's, talked about the beach house he was buying for me, the mercedes. It was all lies. He did n't love me. Yeah ok I have some ocean front property in Kansas!!
Aug 5 - 2AM (Reply to #10)
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

Dentalas I know exactly how

Dentalas I know exactly how they screw with your head. I have been through almost everything you descibe and I know for sure he is a scumsucking POS and I will never forgive, once I extricate myself from the financial mess he left me in. I will roast his arse and disappear from his radar FOREEVER! But he will always be looking over his shoulder Ill make sure of it. If you want to send me a private message please do and we can talk or call. Hugs FNL
Sep 12 - 9PM (Reply to #11)
preciousandbigmike
preciousandbigmike's picture

fooled no longer

How do you roast his ass cause my narc put me in a mess almost killed me.
Aug 4 - 1PM
gratefuljen
gratefuljen's picture

I think your going too easy on abusive, mean, self centered ass

Goldie, I am sorry, but it goes way beyond a void in their emotional make-up. They use and abuse, they destroy people, with no guilt or sense or remorse. I always believed that their was good in every person, because I believed that every person has a soul, a spirit, a conscience. N/p do not. They have no remorse, no guilt. They come into people's lives take want they want. They mind wash, the with hold, the gas light, all in an effort to control and use and abuse. Then they go to the next victim. And leave behind a soul that is crushed. if that person is lucky they find out that they were in an abusive relationship. Someone who is a narc, and a socoipath. We need to label abuse, abuse. Period. Not to be taken lightly! Love to all Jen
Aug 4 - 7PM (Reply to #4)
heritage
heritage's picture

jen

So agree with everything you wrote. It's all abuse, power and control. I watched him destroy his 2 teenage daughters and I knew something was deeply wrong. They don't even love their childre, their flesh and blood. They cannot love...period.
Aug 4 - 7PM (Reply to #5)
heritage
heritage's picture

hyde is the real person!

hyde is the real person! Jekyll is an act!! I truly believe this! Saw it happening with my own eyes and experienced it first hand!
Aug 4 - 2PM (Reply to #3)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Hi Jen

Thanks for responding and you bring up some great points. My narc went to jail for almost a year for domestic assault, larceny, and destruction of personal property, all this was done to me in a 9 month period. I don't think I was easy on him at all and he got away with nothing. He also is a drug addict and has antisocial components to his disorder which contribute to his behavior. I agree with you totally. Although I was not speaking of abuse in this particular blog, I was speaking of the fact that because they are empty inside. They require and seek out constant supply. They cannot stand to be alone for any length of time, this is what drives them to seek out victims and then all the rest of which you speak takes place. The abuse. Sorry I was not clear, this blog is on the topic as to whether or not they love and feel. Also, I was speaking more of Narcs than of psychopath/sociopath/antisocials which of course are an entirely different breed. http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=438 I think that it is important for the purpose of educating ourselves, not to lump all the PD's into one catagory. There are major differences between Narcs and antisocials, some overlap both, and although there is NOT much of a chance at recovery from any PD they do have different symptoms. Many on here have been with Narc/antisocials and some with straight narcs. Hope this clarifies a complicated subject a bit. God bless, Goldie