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Advanced introspection question for Goldie, mods or anyone who feels they might have an idea
Walkingonsunshine
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Advanced introspection question for Goldie, mods or anyone who feels they might have an idea
Posted August 12, 2012 - 10:26am
Assuming I am drawn to emotionally unavailable men and acknolegeing that my father was/is emotionally unavailable. I have noticed that as soon as I begin to realize the extent of the emotional unavailability I get a strung out feeling. It's a mixture of sadness and heightened sexual attraction. I can understand the sadness part cause I can relate it to the comfort zone of longing for the affection of a father. However, I don't get the increased sexual attraction part. Its not like i had any sexual thoughts of my father as Freud would probably propose. it's like the feeling of " longing/ wanting/ wishing is crack mixed with extacy. That's pretty screwed up. I don't believe I was ever molested by my father, he's just a demented man who doesn't care about anything. I need to understand the basis of how this longing for love from emotionally unavailable men results in crack like lusty feelings. And for the record.. im not engaging in this shit anymore id just like to understand how a becomes b. Thanks in advance for opinions.
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I will take a stab at it -
August 13, 2012 - 10:01am — neverlookbackPerhaps it is what you were conditioned as a child to accept - (as in my situation with my abusive father) Your father was a male figure in your life - during your formative years as your personality is being formed this is where the damage is done that later in life can lead us to wrong choices in picking out men that are emotionally not available. In my situation I felt in order to be loved I needed to be punished - I didnt deserve to be loved for just me - I needed the approval of an authority figure and that was my father who abused me.
We subconsciensoulsy pick out these types of men because loving a good, caring doting man is something we dont feel we deserve; we want the challenge of trying to get a man to love us - much too easy if the love is just GIVEN to us - I had counseling for this and its not an easy pattern to break it takes work and always being aware to know and realize we are so worthy of being loved and we dont have to be abused or hurt to earn it - hugs
It's really hard to believe
August 15, 2012 - 12:51pm — WalkingonsunshineIt's really hard to believe that it stems from feeling I don't deserve to be loved. I have to really really think on that one. It's very possible but I just haven't bridged that connection yet. in my case I feel more like its an addiction- a fear based comfort zone thing. possibly choosing an unavailable man as to know what to expect. I do feel that I deserve a good man... At least I think I do. I'll ponder this one for sure.
http://www.psychologytoday.co
August 12, 2012 - 10:10pm — Hunterhttp://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolved-primate/201101/the-other-oxy...
Ok yes this seems to be most
August 15, 2012 - 12:56pm — WalkingonsunshineOk yes this seems to be most in tune with what my issue is. totally loooove this article! I'm an oxytocin addict. Effin lovely lol.
Wow Hunter
August 13, 2012 - 12:33am — rosedewittbukaterThat is a very interesting take on Oxytocin.
I am learning so much on this site!
It sounds like it doesn't work exactly as researchers
originally thought.
Thanks for posting this!
This is spookily familiar..
August 12, 2012 - 7:47pm — chicaand i totally relate to that 'strung out' feeling
my dad was also emotionally unavailable, not narc but very possibly disordered.. i also have pronounced abandonment issues, as much as i feel ashamed to say this as a grown ass woman! these seem to link very strongly to sex for me, its a bit too complex for me to break this down in a way that you ladies would find coherent i'm afraid i'm not very succint in my explanation...
I used to use sex as drug a few years back (with emotionally unavailable thuggish men!), would have call my self a recovered nympho tbh but now its been re-triggered, and this is the first thing that is making me break any attempted NC.
I get flashbacks and intense almost 'chemical' feeling yearnings for him sexually, the sex was absolutely electrifying and worryingly for me the best ive experienced, we were like animals and i really feel i became 'addicted' such a mess, i confess i'm somewhat of a regular on the porn websites as i try to satiate this sudden drop-off in ahem *activities* (tmi sorry but for the sake of honesty) i too feel i need to 'rewire' this in order to form a healthy relationship in the future, not to mention resist the urge to contact the ex!
crack like lusty feelings
August 12, 2012 - 4:48pm — rosedewittbukaterRead Sandra Brown's book "women who love psychopaths".
She explains in depth how these kind of attractions work, and what the qualities and traits in common are shared by women who become involved in these types of damaging relationships.
Also, I have read about a hormone known as Oxytocin.
This is the hormone we produce (men also produce it) when breast-feeding that bonds us to the child. It is also released when petting an animal or when having sex.
Alot of research has been done that shows its effects.
It is believed that this is the hormone responsible for attachment and is necessary for humans to bond and attach long enough in order to rear offspring. That sounds really scientific I know. I think the Oxytocin can be like a high for some people (myself included) but it's really more a of a love feeling that lust. Just something I thought might be relevant. xx, Rose
great post
August 12, 2012 - 11:53am — MeeMee72great question,observation. I can only speak for myself but I have found that I have been avoidant when it comes to intimacy, so emotionally unavailable men are "safe" so to speak, and I am very attracted to them. I have also allowed myself to be attracted to men where I knew there was no future, long distant relationships, different culture, etc.
I have experienced that sadness as well. It may be that part of me that isn't fulfilled by the man in question. Their behavior may trigger feelings from my childhood by their abusive and insane behavior. I can only speak for myself, but I hope it helps!!
Thank you for being so brave and honest in your post!!
walkingonsunshine
August 12, 2012 - 10:35am — Jenna HI have to commend you for your raw honesty here and for looking inward.
I told my therapist the other day looking back I have learned that men who are emotionally unavailable I seemed to have the most sexual chemistry with, but the men who are emotionally available I have struggled with feeling the sexual intensity.
My dad is a wonderful man. So I'm not sure he factors in to my psyche here. Not sure. My mom, however, has narcissistic qualities.
I think for me a lot of times these types of emotionally unavailable guys were projects for me. Simply put - a challenge. I like a challenge and I thought I could CHANGE them, for the better. Get them to open up to me. That sort of thing. But it probably goes deeper than that.... I'll be interested to hear what others have to say.
I've come across an article
August 12, 2012 - 11:09am — WalkingonsunshineI've come across an article that may make some sense in my case. Apparently the author believes that lust attraction and attachment are 3 different states. Apparently what we describe is the attraction part. It states that attraction is associated with low serotonin and high dopamine and norepinephrine.
With that being said low serotonin is also associated with depression and dopamine is associated with addictions. I might be able to assume that the longing for a fathers love is a dormant pain causing a neurochemical change when triggered by the comfort zone phenomenon, manifesting as feelings of ( sadness).
The dopamine factor and overall neurochemical imbalance might be triggerd by the low serotonin when experiencing comfort zone pain.
Sort of like this...exposure to unavailable man, produces comfort zone phenomenon, results in subconscious sadness over father, manifests as sadness regarding unavailability of current mate, resulting in decreased serotonin and increased dopamine.
sadness= serotonin affect
Excitement = norepinephrine sexual effect
Dopamine= addictive effect
Makes sense to me. what is interesting is how a conditioned circuit in the brain can trigger a neurochemicals reaction to my fathers narcissism from a seemingly related event long after I am nc and outwardly over my fathers damage. Guess inside I still hurt and maybe alwys will? I hope not. I have to figure our how to change the brain wiring here. I don't want a crack feeling, it's stupid and pointless.
Same thing here
August 12, 2012 - 10:53am — ruby01I can add that I realize now how safe it was for me to pick these kind of men because I could be the aggressor and know they would not get too close. I could say to myself look how loving and caring I am, all the while not risking a true commitment.
Jenna, ruby, in the past I
August 12, 2012 - 11:25am — WalkingonsunshineJenna, ruby, in the past I have answered my questions with both of your answers which i believe are also correct but it still doesn't give us enough insight on how to fix it. We like a challenge ok and we want to keep a safe distance fair enough but yes I do believe it goes much deeper than this. Do we really " like" a challenge or are we just unable to detach from the addiction of it. I realized I hate the drama of a challenge. I just have a driving force in me that can't easily turn away from it. do I keep my distance cause I'm emotionally unavailable myself, I don't think so, I think on a subconscious level I might know I'm with a emotionally available person and my own emotional distance comes as a defense mechanism. why are we drawn to induced states that could and would clearly undermine us from attracting a healthy partner. I do think it goes deeper and it's all about how the brain is wired. What a mess lol
Very insightful and close to home
August 13, 2012 - 8:06am — Rising DawnWow, this is a very interesting thread. I feel the same way myself. I know I am a somewhat emotionally unavailable person stemming from my upbringing. I am very closed off and detached, but at the same time I am drawn to emotionally unavailable men myself. My exN has accused of me of having a wall up, and he was right. Although I let my guard down the most (or so I thought) with him, I was still probably instinctual protecting myself in some way with my own distance.
This is all so complicated yet interesting. For me, it was definitely a "challenge" or "chase" thing to go after emotionally unavailable men, but after the encounter and final D&D with the N, I am now aware of my own behavior, and I am no longer interested in this particular type of "thrill".
As for healing the issues, I am with you that it's very difficult. For me personally, I think I need to understand and accept what has made me the way I am, and then determine how I want to be in the world, and do the things that will get me there. Easier said then done, of course, to undo a lifetime of wiring in the brain, but I do believe it's possible. It's just going to take a lot of work.
Thanks for sharing your personal thoughts and experiences with this; it's given me a lot to think about.
Just another thought
August 13, 2012 - 8:17am — Rising DawnThis is not an original idea, but I think part of the desire for these unavailable men is that they makes us "work" for it, and that makes the relationship more worthwhile. If you can't have something, then psychologically you want it more. On the other hand, men that are kind and emotionally available provide their love and affection without strings, so they make things too easy and not interesting. Of course, this is what a normal and healthy relationship should be like, but for those of us that have certain woundings, this becomes something we do not care for.
I had to work very hard for positive enforcement when I was a child - I had to be the best at everything or it was not good enough. There was love, but it was conditional (outwardly at least), and I had to work for it. I think this pattern definitely has created how I view relationships.
I recognize the problem
August 12, 2012 - 11:43am — ruby01but that's how far I've gotten so far. I only know that I won't do it again.
Actually that's probably more
August 12, 2012 - 12:00pm — WalkingonsunshineActually that's probably more than half the battle... Knowing we won't do it again. I can say it but only time will tell. I simply may have been raised and conditioned into addictive tendencies and I may simply have to face a life long challenge of going against my feelings. Personally I'd prefer to get rid of the problem causing the feelings so it's not so hard to turn away. I feel like I'm in boot camp for 1 year now... And yes I have walked away from stupid shit during this time, anything that smelled like drama to be honest. So far I'm staying true to myself and although I know I won't ever let anyone abuse me again i am still in recovery and my god there is so much to be strong against. I feel like I'm in AA ... I really do.
The same
August 12, 2012 - 4:56pm — IncognitoBurritoThe same rings true for me as well. Good post.