Register and join our discussion in the Message Board
I wasted so much time in my head, with friends, reading on these boards, wondering: Did he ever, ever, for a minute love me? Did he even try to love me?
Some of you wondered, too, because you wrote: Does he love the New Woman? Is he trying to get me back because he loves and misses me? How do I get him to love me again?
By now, you're (hopefully) realizing that your Ex-NarcoPath is broken- profoundly and irreparably so, right? We 'get' that he is so disordered that a relationship, of any kind, is impossible for him. So now we can stop auditioning for the part of His Only Woman (because we now know that, he can't love AND one woman can never meet his 'supply' demands!) and we can stop hoping for some kind of true connection or reunion.
I believe, though, that until we address this 'love' word that we'll just fall for another charming NarcoPath who whispers all the right things. Women are far more taken in by words than men and this is something we need to be wary of in our future. There are many on this board (including myself) that have had more than one Narc in their past and I think we can agree that we don't want to do this again. Part of reaching this goal, and Step Four in Lisa's 'Path Forward' is to Get Real. So here's my plan.
For me, the concept of love is fraught with too many hopes, too many unreal expectations and remembrances of too many painful pasts. The word has been manipulated by Madison Avenue to provoke us to buy things we don't need and look what the likes of Disney did to it! I feel brainwashed by a hundred years of music dating back to 'the moon in June' crap that my grandmother listened to, and, of course, all the Hollywood pairings going back to Fred & Ginger...
So please excuse me if I have a problem with that word.
From now on, I'm going to place much more emphasis on people's actions than their words. NarcoPaths especially, manipulate with their tongues- lies, promises, shameless self-promotion- and they deliver so little in the 'tangible' department. Maybe a few tossed crumbs to keep his admirers in suspended animation- and hoping for more.
And while I'm avoiding the word 'love', in the romantic sense, I'll be replacing it with concepts such as: care, nurturing, kindness, patience, thoughtfulness, tenderness, empathy, humor, good will, peace, joy, faithfulness, self-control, happiness, fun, wisdom. These things, and more, do I bring to a relationship and these are the virtues I expect in return! My question now will be what a person is bringing into my life- in an emotional and spiritual way.
On the flip-side, think about all the abuse and deceptions you put up with concerning Mr. NarcoPath. And, please remember that you called it 'Love'. Reason2Believe started a great topic earlier in the month entitled, 'What We Tolerate':
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2012/06/07/what-we-tolerate
Her thread got me thinking of all the neglect we suffered at the hands of The Disordered Ones. Not just the overt abuses (remember, we 'took it' because he 'loved' us!) and I wrote, of the Narcs treatment of us, all his:
"Neglected responsibilities, broken promises, controlling all communication (ST included), skipping foreplay, refusing to accompany you to social obligations, 'forgetting' birthdays and anniversaries, ignoring the children... oh God, I could go on all day!"
So, let's go back to replacing, just for awhile, the word 'love' with 'care', 'kindness' or any of those concepts above and let's try this out with an exercise. Instead of asking yourself if he 'loved' you (or does 'love' you), think about the times you were sorely disappointed or humiliated by him- the times he let you down. (With a Narc the list is endless, isn't it?)
Now say (and fill in the blank):
Did he care when _________________________________
-I got a job promotion
-I was sick
-My grandmother died...
Was he showing kindness when ______________________
-he didn't return my phone call
-disappeared for days on end without a word
-he tried to make me jealous with his 'triangle game'
I don't know how that huge 'disconnect' happened between our perceptions of 'Love' and the way a person actually treats us - but maybe that's a topic for another post!
For now, I'd love to know how you've answered this exercise.
What's Love Got to Do With It?
July 3, 2012 - 8:07pm — Reason2BelieveGreat excercise here. When I met Wanna B, he was fun, engaging, courteous, thoughtful, kind, affectionate. He was just like me! The difference btw us, was in financial stability. I discovered that he had money issues, lived paycheck to paycheck and no job security/future growth. I did not want him to feel "insecure", but at the same time, did not want him to mooch off of me.
Anyway, I told him outright that I do not judge people by how much money they have or don't have, or by the type of car they drive, clothes they wear, but I judge people by the way they treat others and their character.
So, now I ask myself, why did I not heed my own words when he began to show his "real" character... impatience, entitlement,selfishness,controlling...and walk out, never looking back? Loneliness, escape, and belief the man i orignially met would resurface. Sound familiar? Time for change of thought process!
Back then I thought: I had a "nice & loving" guy who was going through a rough time.
Now I think: "nice and loving" people just don't behave this way.
I have promised myself that I will now hold true to my belief in judging by actions and character..AND those actions and character need to be in tune with MY actions and character. IOW, if someone does or says something which I consider is unkind, disrespectful, controlling, etc., I will now think: "Would I ever say or do that, REGARDLESS of what else is going on in my life? If my answer is NO, then we are DONE.
We need to be treated the way we treat others. Any deviation(s) are not acceptable and should never be tolerated.
Hugs,
Reason
Thanks for all the feed back - pls read this.
June 29, 2012 - 10:28am — wonder bugTrust me ladies I have been reading and reading and some of your comments to my post are brutal, but I am taking it.
It's giving me more of an insite on what I need to do, I just need the strengh to do it.
Some of your post have also (mocked me ) as in making fun of me for being so stupid for have stayed in this relationship.
It just hurts so much that there is no middle of the road with this person because everyone states he is damaged and he can never change. I wonder if he knows he is a narcassistic person or he thinks he is normal.
I need for you woman to tell me that he will treat any woman the same as he treats me and maybe it will be easier for me to let him go knowing that. He was married once for 17 years so he had to know LOVE at that time.
As mentioned he said we can be freinds but with no sex benefits because I have to prove to him that I don't love him anymore first. That is in possible. Regardless what I tell him, he is not going to beleive me. I don't know if he is off fucking someone else or what the deal is. I don't know if this is his way of controlling me by cutting me off or what I am being punished for.
I need for you woman to tell me why he does the things he does, for no apparant reason, that's whats going to help me.
As mentioned we can go months with seeing eachother constantly and then one day it blows up with the hurtfull comments, about how unhappy he is with me, how things are going to change, how he has let me push him for months and he isnt going to tolerate it anymore. How he was married before and he will never be forced into doing anything he doesn't want to do by anyone.
I sit there dumb founded with what I did wrong for him to snap on me.
He is the one that drives to my house, he is the one that decides how much time he is going to spend with me, he is the one who decides when we are going to have sex. So how and the hell can he turn this all around and make it all my fault that I am pressuring him and making him feel like we are in a relationship and thats not what he wants.
I can't make anyone feel anyway,,,, so if he feels like we are in a relationship than he brought that on himself and now is blaming me for his feelings and then he runs..... like a scared rabbit.
I need for you woman to tell me why he does the things he does,
June 30, 2012 - 8:02am — neverlookbackbecause he is disordered - that is why he does these things - he turns everything to be your fault which is known as projection and gaslighting - distorting your reality to what the truth is - its classic - READ READ READ
You were not "stupid" for trusting and loving this HIDDEN predator none of us were - YOU DID NOTHING WRONG, if you are still blaming yourself for HIS sick behavior it could be still some of his brainwashing you need to work on that he did to you - I dont know what your history is and if you have established NC but from what you write you are not understanding yet the dynamics of a disordered person and what they do to their partners - NO CONTACT or you will always be confused and in pain - with no contact you will see that it was never your fault - and all your questions will be answered for you - stay on the board, READ, maintain NO CONTACT FOREVER and you will move forward with the life you were intended to have x0
nomore an echo
July 3, 2012 - 8:11am — onwithmylifeWhat a great wonderful and insightful post, LOVE IT, I now always see if the actions and words match up and if they do not, out the door I go, he said all the right things but in the end his actions never showed that, in spite of the' I love yous',, once i had dangerous food poisoning and he did come over late that night but in the morning when i said to him, what if I need to go tothe hospital, he said'take a taxi' cause he could not take a precious day off from work..he worked retail, he can take a taxi to HELL for all I care.............He also used his cell phone and its limited minutes as a manipulating tool, and when he was mad at me for any silly reason, would not answer the phone.Did anyone say control?????????/Oh and when he called and I was so sick with a cold and wanted me to drive an hour to see him cause he was horny??!!Lots of caring there.what a joke.
Thank you
June 27, 2012 - 10:55pm — LindsayMSome of it brought tears to my eyes ( It's okay) because a year ago I met him online and eventually meeting him IRL. So many,many red flags and every one of those you mentioned he never cared about I could of fallen down the steps broken my arm and wound up in the hospital and he wouldn't of cared but god forbid if he had fallen down the steps broken his arm and wound up in the hospital lord he would let me know! Thank you for posting that!
Nice
June 27, 2012 - 6:34pm — abrevaSmart.
Very nice. Thank you.
LOVE is actions and behaviors NOT WORDS
June 27, 2012 - 1:11pm — neverlookbackI don't know how that huge 'disconnect' happened between our perceptions of 'Love' and the way a person actually treats us - but maybe that's a topic for another post! a topic for another post in which I would be glad to attempt -
Our perceptions of what love was - is exactly everything they came into the relationship giving us - this is how we perceived love to be and this is what they wanted us to believe - the deep hook that I still have a scar from is in the middle of my chest -
Echo what you speak of goes further once their mask and pretense is gone - maybe you are asking why did we stay and tolerate this sickness - you gave us examples of the proof that their behavior was NOT LOVE - were we so re wired and reprogrammed and brainwashed to remain with someone that blatantly showed us through their behavior that we were NOT LOVED? Perhaps on some level yes we were - but here I am no longer brainwashed, oxytocin (sp) has been LONG GONE - the spell is broken - and yet from this experience my perception of LOVE is forever changed.
Love is all the things you described and it always has been- for me I lost my perception of love by allowing myself to give up and cast aside everything by trying to please another person - matters not if we do this to someone disordered or NOT disordered - we must always remain true to what works for us when it comes to matters of the heart. This is what makes me who I am and what makes you, who YOU are - we are all different just as relationships are all different - When you have a psychopath in the mix there is no greater test in the world that will force you to "KNOW THYSELF" and to never give up the beautiful things you believe for the sick conviction of some disturbed person - love will always begin with yourself there is no way around it - believe me I have tried and it does not work any other way - you want others to love you as you love yourself - my corny two cents worth
So true - action speaks louder than words
June 27, 2012 - 2:17pm — Rising DawnOMG, my exN used to say to me all the time that you can't judge someone by their actions, because the intentions is what matters.
YES, that is psycho narc talk for - you should go with what I tell you, because that's my word. What I do is irrelevant, b/c that's just me being me. You should be happy I meant well and want to include you in my life, so be satisfied I even let you in.
Yeah, red flag city, but I ignored when I was in the fog. He rarely ever followed through with his promises. They were just all ploys to keep me around as supply. And I was the crazy one to call him on his discrepancy?
favorite narc catchphrase
July 2, 2012 - 11:20pm — no more an echoThanks Rising Dawn,
and all who commented here. It's truly healing to hear your experiences.
You wrote:
"You should be happy I meant well and want to include you in my life, so be satisfied I even let you in."
Yep. We're supposed to be grateful, fawning groupies as he's tossing us his measly crumbs.
One of my favorite of the Narc catchphrases is:
"Are you calling me a liar?" (Said with STUNNING disbelief. As in: How DARE I even entertain the THOUGHT!)
To which I would answer:
"Which is worse- you LYING or me CALLING YOU ON IT!"
Hahahaha! They really are so pathetic.
Repeat after me
June 27, 2012 - 12:10pm — CanadaGreat post NMAE, love requires empathy, healthy self-love and emotional maturity.
Without the ability to value and understand how your actions affect another, there is no love.
So to summarize:
EMPATHY + HEALTHY SELF-LOVE + EMOTIONAL MATURITY = LOVE
0 + 0 + 0 = NO LOVE
REPEAT AFTER ME:
He NEVER loved anyone, he is UNABLE to love if he is not capable of loving himself!
so true..
June 27, 2012 - 1:28pm — midwestdivaCanada... great summarization... and I will keep repeating it to myself.. thank you!
You're welcome midwestdiva!
June 27, 2012 - 1:52pm — CanadaYou're welcome midwestdiva! :D