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"instigate a breakup, subjecting them to an emptiness and pain that will give you room to maneuver-now a rapprochement, an apology, a return to your earlier kindness, will turn them weak at the knees."
Wow, this is what I'm going through right now. Staying strong and committing to NC,though!
I'm sure this post gave everybody chills!! I don't know what to say! I'm numb! It describes how they operate so perfectly!
I have one problem with this: I don't really believe the Narcs are THAT smart! To calculate and programm all this so accurately in mathematical accuracy and predict our actions so precisely! I don't give the Narcs that much credit!
And besides, it is impossible for a Narc to spend so much time on another person!! Because all this effort and patience (they are indeed patient predators) and planning, would take so much time off of themselves! That's not possible! Less time for self admiration? Less time in front of the mirror kissing the Divine One? No way!
Their minds are set on "I want and I will take" mode and that's it!
Thanks for the post!
Open your Eyes.. That's EXACTLY HOW THEY OPERATE..
I don't think intelligence plays a role, though. Think what is true about all this, is that they are looking for a desired reaction. They employ certain tactics, to see what reactions they can illicit from their victims.
If they go silent for several hours, and that does NOT bother their victim, they know silent treatment won't work on them. If the victim becomes frantic after several hours, and everything seems to be ok otherwise...the victim may say ''what's wrong? are you mad about something? haven't heard from you in a while.''
And then the psychopath/narc knows that ST will work, going forward.
Really just a game of cat and mouse, with them. Testing their victims, to see what works.
All of us were spinning, exhausted, and confused at the end of these relationships. Definitely a game of sorts was being played...it wasn't haphazard. Just my take. But, I see your points. It would seem to detract from them, but really...once the game is set in motion, and it doesn't take long with a vulnerable victim...then, the ''relationship'' just plays out without much effort from there on in.
that article made me sick, cause it was an exact account of what happen to me and funny thing while reading it I could match the exact deed that came along with it, it made feel so low like I just got ripped off, and it wows me because who has time to sit and plan these things.
remember, they choose their victims. they won't choose someone that they don't envision falling for their games.
once they test their victim in the beginning, they see what that victim responds to...good and bad. and then, the roller coaster ride begins.
it's not that hard for them. they have been acting like this since they were kids.
practice makes perfect. lol all it takes is a vulnerable victim, and their game is relatively effortless once it gets rolling.
the question more is...why do they like spending so much energy tormenting their lovers, when they could be using that same energy to have a mutually loving relationship?
because they don't understand nor feel love like we do. so, to them, a relationship becomes all about feeding their egos, and making them happy, at all costs.
"the question more is...why do they like spending so much energy tormenting their lovers, when they could be using that same energy to have a mutually loving relationship?
because they don't understand nor feel love like we do. so, to them, a relationship becomes all about feeding their egos, and making them happy, at all costs".
AND BECAUSE THEY ARE DISORDERED!!
Why does Cancer eat at organs & eventually kill the body !!
Why does AIDS exisit?
Why is the sky Blue?
They have a personality disorder., this is how the operate..
This is what they do and WE need to WAKE UP and smarten up to the truth. This is NOT random and they know exactly what they are doing.
This is all about stepping on the backs of others to get what they want and what they want is OTHERS to do for them and give to them on all levels.
This is not about LOVE by any stretch and the sooner WE get this the sooner WE begin to heal.
Not an easy thing to wrap your brain around. IT takes time and much reading and awareness to understand what they are all about.
This is a good article which clearly illustrates their manipulative techniques.
LEARN THEM and KNOW THEM and never ever get sucked into this type of conman again.
This only has to happen to you once, you don't ever have to walk down this path again.
Onward and upward on the PATH FORWARD away from the PD.
NC, NC, NC!!!
amen goldie!! amen.
It's scary to read this.... It's exactly how things unfolded in my relationship. Creepy!
Make me sick that it's so textbook.
That article is chilling indeed. As many of the ladies have said here...textbook! I sat with my mouth open at some of the text as I couldn't believe I was reading a play-b-play of some of my drama with the narcy.
Enter their spirit, the mixed signals, keep them in suspense, giving them space to fall are all the really scary ones for me.
I remember the silent treatment & when that stopped working b/c I wouldn't allow it ...my mother never allowed us to "ignore" one another. Who knew he had a bag of tricks!
Thanks for posting this. I'm adding this to my "bag of tricks" whenever I start to feel sorry for myself & sad about not having him around. This process is worse that getting gum off my shoe... gotta keep at it!
Deidre what an unbelievable post!! Thank you for that link!!
It amazing me that these freaks are so text book. No human being acts according to any text book word for word except them. We can't continue to question their disorder when every word matches to a tee. If you do then you are only in denial. If you can't accept what is true and still question yourself....that right there is a huge problem if you ever want your life back!! How many more articles, blogs, ebooks, mods and veterans replies do you need to finally get it??
Stop trying to understand why they do this and that!! They are not to be understood by any REAL person. It's time we look deep inside ourself because wanting an abuser is way fucked up on every level!! We are not the fucked up ones here.....they are!!!
ENOUGH OF WHAT THEY DID.....THEY DID IT.....WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT......YOU THINK YOU CAN CHANGE IT?? NEVER HAPPENING IN THIS LIFETIME OR THE NEXT!!!! THEY ARE PATHOLOGICAL BOTTOM LINE
Either step up to the plate and get it or stay in limbo forever....YOUR CHOICE!! Change your thoughts about what you won't accept. Change your thoughts about what you think you can't do! You can do anything you put your mind to!!!
You know who you are ladies! You know why you were a target! You read enough to know that by now. So I think it's time to put the facts on the table because facts don't lie. He is disordered....YOU ARE NOT!!!
Remember one thing we were HIS mirror. Do you want to become HIS mirror??? A pathetic, depressed, angry, jealous, heartless and empty shell???? WELL DO YOU...REALLY???
WE ROCK ALL OF US!!! HE IS A LOSER AND ALWAYS WIL BE......HE WILL NEVER CHANGE!!
I LOVE YOU ALL
And like Janie says...BE TRUE TO YOU
Fire away! They suck, Period. WE are the winners when we go and stay No Contact. ALWAYS.
Deidre....please know that was not directed to YOU....just a comment to your link. And it got me fired up!!!!
haha no offense taken! you go! :)
Thanks, Deidre99, great article- but it triggered some post-traumatic stuff!
Really chilling under #1-CHOOSE THE RIGHT VICTIM:
"The right victims are those for whom you can fill a void, who see in you something exotic. They are often isolated or at least somewhat unhappy (perhaps because of recent adverse circumstances)"
My Ex-Robo-Preacher-Man KNEW that I was grieving the recent loss of my daughter and he also KNEW that the vulnerable make great targets. Shame on the weasel!
"#10-USE THE DEMONIC POWER OF WORDS TO SOW CONFUSION...
Inflame people's emotions with loaded phrases, flatter them, comfort their insecurities, envelop them in fantasies, sweet words, and promises,...Keep your language vague, letting them read into it what they want."
I think that is everyone's experience here because NarcoPaths are such chameleons.
And in point # 24, is a good explanation to their control tactics using the Silent Treatment:
"If necessary, deliberately break the spell you have created. If you are to stay in a relationship, beware a flagging of energy, a creeping familiarity that will spoil the fantasy. If the game is to go on, a second seduction is required. Never let the other person take you for granted-use absence, create pain and conflict, to keep the seduced on tenterhooks."
Knowledge is another way we can demystify the narc. Thanks and *ouch*...A little TOO MUCH clarity!
Oh, I'm sorry. :( I know some of this is hard to read.
Something to note, I think, is that I don't know if every thing they do is calculated. I think some of this (as the author states...is not conscious) In my own experiences, I think narcs/psychopaths looked for reactions. If silent treatment gets to their victims, they will perpetuate it. If it doesn't they will try something else to get that squirm-effect, as I call it.
Triangulation might not work on all men/women, but if the narc gets the sense that it drives its prey into fits of insane jealousy, he/she will continue that behavior.
Just my non-expert take, and what I gleaned from my own experiences. I do think some of this is calculated, but some might just be throwing stuff out to see what kinds of reactions they might get.
If nothing else, what I take away from this link is that if we are to ever see these signs in a relationship, we should run not walk. We should know this is not the mark of a normal healthy person in love. People who are healthy and normal don't seek to test and exploit their lovers. But, narcissists do.
This paragraph stands out to me also:
[CREATE A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY- APPROACH INDIRECTLY
If you are too direct early on, you risk stirring up a resistance that will never be lowered. At first there must be nothing of the seducer in your manner. The seduction should begin at an angle, indirectly, so that the target only gradually becomes aware of you. Haunt the periphery of your target's life-approach through a third party, or seem to cultivate a relatively neutral relationship, moving gradually from friend to lover. Arrange an occasional "chance" encounter, as if you and your target were destined to become acquainted-nothing is more seductive than a sense of destiny. Lull the target into feeling secure, then strike.]
I remember my ex N from last year, how he started to seduce me. It was very gradual and he started out as a friend...just as this says! Like in the background. Texting me here and there...becoming my 'friend.' Then, over time, I was like...wow, I've been talking to N almost every day now. (and we still weren't dating)
Very scary. I wish I knew then, what we know now!
Deidre, thanks for posting this...I am dumbfounded.
Makes sense of all the emails I found in his spam folder just before Discard....wondered why he would be registered for seduction sites????!!! DOH, how bloody stupid I was. And I have never bothered to check them out, as I knew it would tell me this, but now I am so ready to see it. Honed and dangerous was Trotters...so easy to fool an empath with this kind of stuff...I feel sick!
Can not BELIEVE people sign up to learn this?
It is so abhorrent, whatever happened to being yourself and just getting to know someone.... oh that's us!!
Thankyou so much...another lightbulb and another step forward... x
A paragraph taken from the link that really stands out to me from my experiences with narcissist men.
20-MIX PLEASURE WITH PAIN
''The greatest mistake in seduction is being too nice. At first, perhaps, your kindness is charming, but it soon grows monotonous; you are trying too hard to please, and seem insecure. Instead of overwhelming your targets with niceness, try inflicting some pain. Lure them in with focused attention, then change direction, appearing suddenly uninterested. Make them guilty and insecure. Even instigate a breakup, subjecting them to an emptiness and pain that will give you room to maneuver-now a rapprochement, an apology, a return to your earlier kindness, will turn them weak at the knees. The lower the lows you create, the greater the highs. To heighten the erotic charge, create the excitement of fear.''
Lure them in, then change direction. OMG. I am stunned reading this today. I remember this when dating the narc from last year. It was very subtle. Nothing I could pinpoint. As it says here...''appearing uninterested.'' I remember that. And wondering...why is he acting like this? Why was he coming on like gang busters, and now, he barely texts?
It's 'nice' for lack of a better word, to know there's an answer to the madness.
Deidre99-I didn't read your post but they hurt all of us. I tried a million times to figure out what I did , what went wrong (I was widowed young, a few years ago, lost my friends and job and he was the only thing I had) when the money ran out so did he and found new supply and is going through her cash too. He is starting to look like crap too and when he was with me he looked much better. He has no respect even for her-he had me thinking he was living with a buddy. I guarentee if I came into money he'd be back. Don't waste your time trying to figure out why, you'll just end up crying in your bed every night and no contact is a bitch, I try and have broken it or allowed him to break it a million times, I'm on day #1 AGAIN sometimes its better just to give up and walk away. I'm learning you can't make someone into what they aren't. I had a wonderful husband and went to this (clearly the wrong one died) you can put a silk hat on a pig but it's still a pig and so is he-no offense to the actual animal
I agree. I have been NC for a year, and I'm over the narc himself. I think what intrigued me about this link is that I read on here how many question if he or she is really dealing with a narcissist. If you're treated poorly, get out of the relationship regardless of the 'tag' we can put on it...but that said. It is helpful to see that there is a 'diagnosis,' an actual set of characteristics that when matched up with what we were once feeling...we can say...ah ha, ok this makes sense.
lol @ 'no offense to the actual animal' hahaha I love it--priceless!
You all are awesome. :)
That about seems them up alright! Sick and scary.
Thank goodness for the mods and members of this forum. They may be smart but we are smarter!
Keep staying true!
That is almost exactly how all this happened-very creeped out right now
Isn't is unreal? I stumbled into this today, looking up something not quite related...and wow. I was blown away.
It's scary people...human beings...actually go through life like this.
But, this helps to see we all didn't imagine the deception. It really is calculated, to a degree.
This is a playbook on how I was seduced by my exN! I am completely disturbed after reading this link.
I got dizzy reading it because it seems like it's a lot to remember - maybe N's are born with the innate ability to manipulate and seduce? I have a feeling my exN did all this without evening thinking - it was completely natural to him, And if he ever got questioned on it, he'd think I was the crazy one for thinking that any human can even do this kind of thing to another human. In fact, I have called him on his behavior in the past, and he always managed to convince me I was the insane and ridiculous one.
Our core personalities (and disorders) are formed in us before we hit teenage years...even adolescent years, so it stands to reason, that it would 'seem' like they were born this way.
Something in their childhood...caused them to 'cope' by using a lot of these tactics.
Not necessarily abuse. Some psychopaths were very coddled by their parents, but so much so, that the psychopath/narc never learned how to develop into an adult. (socially and emotionally speaking)
It's interesting to read all about it.
I hope that it didn't trigger anything bad within you. I'm sorry if it did, my intent for posting this link was to show...that the tactics are often times calculated by narcs/psychopaths.
Here's to never being considered 'prey' by them again!
As an after thought...I was reading this link, and it took me a minute to realize it was written from the viewpoint of the narc/psychopath! That is so chilling.
As disturbing as it was, I appreciated the article b/c it is even more clear how the whole thing happened... It's definitely food for thought for future protection again such attacks. I still can't believe 100% this is how he operates (I can, I just don't want to, I guess). I think my exN was coddled, and not abused. I think he's also "fractured" because he grew up in a pretty repressive culture, and he never quite fit in. He was always pushing the envelope and felt he was "above" society (typical N-trait). I don't know for sure if this is what made him the PD he is(I am not an expert), but it's just some theories I have.
I am not completely over my ordeal with him, but I have been doing well with NC and trying to move on with my life (one day at a time). I am trying to get to a point where I can put all this past me, but right now it's been interesting and helpful to read information on this site.
It's just shocking that we can be so vulnerable while they can be so predatory.
that's an interesting take on your ex, Rising Dawn.
I can't help but wonder if this is why they don't age gracefully, so to speak. It has to be challenging, and nerve racking to always be on guard, and calculating. Hyper vigilant, and perceptive to finding targeting new supply, luring him/her in...etc.
As you continue with NC. There will come with all this, an indifference. Peace and indifference.
I am not sure if you are familiar with the term puer aternus? Many Narcissist have this Jungian archetype. It is a source of fuel for NPD.
Here's a quote from the article about men with the puer aternus tendency that speaks to why they don't age well. I love the last line.
"As nature is much kinder towards excessive indulgences, impulsiveness, and unconsciousness in youth, it is not until the middle of life that the Puer’s life becomes problematic. The quest for euphoria always alternates with it’s opposite, namely dark and sinister moods of depression, irrational fears, physical breakdown or hypochondriasis. After pride and arrogance, always come despair and depression. It is in midlife that we get punished by our sins, not for them."
The full article is here: http://drpetermilhado.com/puer_complex
Rising Dawn, that was an awesome article and it describes my Ex-NarcoPaths perfectly!
Thanks for sharing and this should go into the 'Favorites' file!
One of the hardest obstacles in my recovery was accepting that people like this truly exist. It scared the hell out of me and I really withdrew for awhile. I now accept it and feel more than confident than ever no one like this will ever cross my path again. I simply won't allow it. I have learned appropriate boundaries and how to be true to me.
We live in a crazy world; no doubt about it but we each can decide for ourselves what part we choose to partake in.
Stay true to all of you!
I agree janie!
something comforting for lack of a better word to note, is that they repeat the behavior with ALL of their prey. when i read on here...'does he treat the OW better?' the answer would be a resounding no. eventually, these tactics will all play out, if in fact, he/she is a true narcissist.
by comforting, i don't mean that i wish future people to be treated the way we were. but, rather, that it helps us to see even moreso, that because it's patterned and repeated, it points even more to that they are disordered. and there could have been nothing we could have done to save the sinking relationship.
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