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My first counseling session, after 10 minutes she said, You weren't involved with a narcissist, you were with a sociopath.
Is there a difference?
The worst of the worst is the covert narc. That's what I had...and his profession made it even worse...not all psychopaths are criminal...some are on the opposite side of the law from criminals. As was mine.
What is covert? I know mine had two different lives. One was the nice small town dr, the other was the alcholic, druggie, swinger pervert.
Mine was textbook shy narcissist
Lots of passive aggressive stuff, very sneaky.
There is a type of personality disorder called the Cluster B range. From left to right: Histrionic, Borderline, Narcissistic, and Psychopath (Anti-social; Sociopath). All Psychopaths are Narcissists. There tends to be some overlap. Women tend to be more histrionic and borderline. Men tend to be more narcissistic and psychopathic. However, not all Narcissists are Psychopaths.
A Psychopath is a person who is really a criminal-type. Total disregard for rules & social mores. There is an absence of empathy. A total disregard for the feelings and needs of others. Lack of impulse control. Highly exploitative. They operate upon deceit. Layer upon layer of deceit. Since they successfully compartmentalize people, the individuals rarely realize that very little what they say about themselves, their past, their relationships, professions, is true. Sexual perversions. These people can leave one with a sense of evil. A coldness. Just so deliberately destructive.
Not all psychopaths are in prison. Some are highly successful businessmen, doctors, lawyers, academics, politicians. Most research on psychopaths is done with prison populations. The understanding of succesful psychopaths is mostly derived from the accounts by their victims.
The truth of the matter is -- personality disorders are not really much understood. Psychiatry and psychology have not focused on them because they are not "cureable." The words and concepts to describe and define the Cluster B spectrum are all evolving rapidly.
Nice that your therapist seems like she may just "get it." So many don't. One can pass all the tests . . . but until one has been drawn into the web of a narcissist & then escaped, one cannot really understand. The woman who replaced me with my N (who was a psychopath) was a psychiatrist! It took her 10 months (6 months living with him) to discern that he was a psychopath before she bolted. A highly-successful psychopath can be very difficult to detect. Let me tell you, in 10 months he trashed her finances, her possessions, and her self-esteem. Even her close girlfriend of 25+ years who introduced her to him, and encouraged her to remain with him after she had some doubts in the first three months of the instant relationship, this close friend abandoned the psychiatist in favor of the N. Acted as if the psychiatrist was exaggerating, was over-sensitive, & should just "get over it." Friend remains totally bamboozled by the professionally-successful, handsome & relatively charming psychopath. How long did charming Bernie Madoff keep the scam going?
You seem to have seen the very dark side of this. I'm watching "Stop Being Food for the Reptilian Complex" - Epic Sermon from Thomas Sheridan. Have you seen it?
How widespread this is, amazing.
Sociopath is a redundant term now - your therapist should know this. All psychopaths have all the N traits also. Some argue all Ns are psychopaths - Thomas Sheridan - given my research and experience now (10 years) I would agree with this. More importantly 1 in 25 people are psychopaths but we have turned off our antennae with the contemporary carpe diem attitude to life. Sheridan suggests psychopaths were shunned more often in the past when people listened to their guts instincts more. We all heard sirens ringing/lights flashing/thunderbolts from the sky with these people and still went ahead and engaged.
Read Thomas Sheridan: Puzzling People: The Labyrinth of the Psychopath
Amazon UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Puzzling-People-The-Labyrinth-Psychopath/dp/1905...
Amazon US: http://www.amazon.com/Puzzling-People-The-Labyrinth-Psychopath/dp/190560...
Scroll down on the right hand side of the page and there it is.
Thank you, I watched several of Sheridan's you tubes last night, fantastic.
I awoke this morning still in a bit of shock, I've been dating a psychopath. I have no doubt that's what this man is.
One in twenty five!
I'll buy the book.
Dear lilygirl - it is a complete shock which is why we often spend too long in the nightmare - we just can't believe these people walk the Earth, and keep treating them as if they were human - but they are everywhere and we must all keep vigilant/set our standards high and keep our boundaries in place. I should think after all our experiences and all the knowledge we have gained we'll be able to sniff out the disordered at 100 yards down wind in the future :)
Honestly I think I stayed in at some point because of curiousity. I'd never seen anything like that. Until I met him I didn't know what the term swinger meant. Naive no longer.
For now, every guy will be a psychopath unless they prove otherwise.
I know they exist now.
Sheridan says only 4% of people are psychopaths. I think it's important to know if we are dealing with one. I didn't want to label mine, but the facts all seem to be pointing to the fact that he is a psychopath. For me it's liberating, he can't change, he can't be helped. Like you all said when I posted my story, RUN!
Interesting how as time passed I came to accept his deviant behavior as normal!
And trust my instincts, they are a gift.
Much better to express this as 1 in 25 people - this is a significant number of monsters which 4% does not convey. Saying 'only 4%' also does not covey the massive, often irreparable damage these people do to anyone in close quarters - the numbers of the abused rises exponentially - partners, children, other family members, 'friends', co-workers all damaged along their path of destruction.
Add Dangerous Liasions by Claudia Moscovici!
Claudia Moscovici's book is excellent. She also has a fiction book, loosely based on her own experience called THE SEDUCER. These men and women (there are female psychopaths, but the perecentage is much lower than for men) have NO CONSCIENCE, so anything goes. They are incapable of feeling real emotion, which is why they constantly seek external sources of gratification (substances, other women, etc). I highly recommend getting onto Claudia Moscovici's site, psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com to educate yourself more about these 1 in 25. Extremely illuminating and highly disturbing.
I can't wait to read all these links!!! Here's another great link on the Dark Triad (Narcissism, Psychopathy and Machiavellianism) These FREAKS are messed up!!!!! Yikes. We've been dealing with monsters, ladies (and gents). Holy SHIT! http://www.eaplstudent.com/component/content/article/133-dark-triad
No wonder we've been "spinning."
Anyone of us could have been this mother and daughter ..
DO NOT UNDERSTIMATE THESE CREATURES THEY ARE CAPABLE OF ANYTHING..
This is a spectrum disorder, varying degrees of pathology. My recommendation to you is to read. At the beginning of my journey I thought he was a man with some narcissistic tendencies. Hmmm, turns out he is a toxic, charamatic psychopath with the intention of not only destroying me, but my family as well.
"Choosing married or otherwise “taken” victims adds a third dimension to their sadistic pleasure. When they seduce a married woman, they are not only conquering that person’s heart but also “taking her” from another man. To psychopaths this represents a double conquest and therefore also a double defeat of their victims: both of the person they dupe into loving them and of the person they both cheat on. The thrill of seducing married individuals, to manipulate and hurt not only a given target, but also her significant other and family, often proves irresistible to psychopaths, fueling their false sense of superiority, power and invincibility."
Claudia Moscovici, psychopathyawareness
All narcissists are not psychopaths, but all psychopaths are narcissists.
Read! Knowledge is power.
Stay true to you!
OMG! Janie! Wow. These guys are such creeps. When I see them as crazy freaks, it makes NC a LOT easier!!!!
Knowledge is power!
That is interesting as he advertised on swinger sites for couples, then at least once, he started seeing the woman behind the husband's back. When she "fell" in love with him, he dumped her.
He had a cyber lover who got thrown out by her husband and when she wanted to move in with him he dumped her.
My final dumping was for his married Beth, a nurse he worked with who he f..ed in the closet two years prior at the hospital fully clothed. Her 15 year old son found emails between his mom and the good Dr, he brought them to Dad. That ended the affair but he is after her again. Poor thing.
I asked him once why he would want to have sex with a married woman and go home and and sleep alone. He said he liked watching the husband when he had sex with the wife. How sick is that?
My therapist said that with me he wanted to corrupt an innocent.
He had multiple addictions, alcohol, pot, pres. drugs, porn and swinger sites.
Good riddance pervert!
Way to go Lily! Yes, many have multiple addcitions, one masking another. Sorry, this is your reality.
Hey sweetheart.... My therapist said I am dealing with a narcissist with psychopathic behavior, possibly something else "going on." Apparently it is common for the N to have disorders coexist??? I am still trying to research that and figure that out. From what I see that is quite possible with your ex...
I am so glad you are away from him. He, I believe, is going to push things dangerously too far. Be glad you are free from that!
See what your's was well on the way to becoming? Just give him time. Nice to have you back. Stay strong, someday we will shake our heads and wonder what we were ever doing.
It's so scary because my exN seems so in control of his emotions MOST of the time. That is why I always question things. But, maybe those are the ones you have to worry about most???
Thank you... Many hugs!
very calculating, crude, cruel, lunatic fringe s.o.b.!
I would not worry about him....they are irrational, unpredictable, forever breaking promises, and are never
accountable for their crazy behavior!
THEY ARE THE WORST...NARCS ARE MILD COMPARED TO THEM!
If they have a POLY-SUBSTANCE abuse problem, then it just
magnifies their disorder.
They have a PU PU platter of crap going on with them, its
very difficult to pin point, takes like a lot of time with a
They are also very reluctant to get help, usually they
end up on the wrong side of the LAW, and there is a Court Ordered Psych. Eval..which takes months to complete!!
Do you know any articles on poly-substance abuse? I am not too familiar with this and the exact meaning.
than one substance, the cases I see are where people are doing like CRACK, ETOH-alcohol, marijuana, everything!
That's poly substance abuse.
WEB M.D. OR MAYO CLINIC WEB SITE GOOD SOURCES OF REFERENCE!
Wow, I thought he was using so many things so as to stay in control, 3 beers, a bottle wine, and pot, then the sleeping pills, phenobarbital, and last was vicodine, can't forget the porn.
Polysubstance dependence refers to a type of substance dependence disorder in which an individual uses at least three different classes of substances indiscriminately and does not have a favorite drug that qualifies for dependence on its own.
Polysubstance dependence is listed as a substance disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published in 2000 (also known as the DSM-IV-TR ). The DSM-IV-TR is the latest revision of the manual that it is used by mental health professionals to diagnose mental disorders.
Thank you... I am going to have to do some more research to see if my exN qualifies...
Yes, google it! You need to do the work.
Stay true to you!
In addition to what others said, this helped me too.
They are a different breed! LIKE A NARC TIMES GAZILLION!
AWFUL..CHECK OUT SAM VANKIN ON LINE!
Read the Sociopath next door.. Martha Stout..
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