Thanks so much for this post. You have described exactly the conundrum of living and (unfortunately) being married to this kind of narcissist. It's slow, it's painful, it's a bit like dying a little at a time. Is there anything that you can point to and say "You evil fu**er!" No. It's far more insidious than that. Is not turning up for your child's doctor's appointment a sin? [he got held up at work - elaborate story] How about - buying your wedding anniversary present at the market stall on the way home from work and then going out for beers with his mate? [because his mate is going through a bad time and needs him right now] Going to the recording studio the morning after you've had a D&C (miscarriage) at the hospital and you got home at 10 pm at night and leaving you to care for the other two toddlers? [recording studios cost a lot of money and he couldn't rebook for another 3 months]

It's mainly about the ongoing selfishness, self-centredness and self-delusions (his fantasy world where he is a perfect husband and father) that is so hard to swallow. And the realisation that the person you are married to doesn't actually love you at all. And this realisation doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't. It happens slowly, ever so slowly - like one drop of lifeblood draining out of you every single day until yes, one day you realise that you ARE empty. This person doesn't fill you up. This person SUCKS you and you are, in fact, sucked dry.
I actually envy the women on here who say that their N has cheated on them, stolen their money, hit them, flounced off with other women. They have something to point to - they can say LOOK, he did THAT! I AM right - he is a complete shit.
I've got nothing. Worse than that, I have to contend with the fact that my exNH will likely paint a picture for my children where I am the unstable one. My girlfriends tell me over and over again that eventually my children will see through him. That my children will see that I am the one who drives them to soccer practice, that I am the one that takes them to dentist appointments, that I am the one who goes to parent teacher interviews, packs their school lunches, buys their clothes. REally? REALLY? Or will they see the FABULOUS father who lets them stay up til midnight, buys them a wii, takes them to a footy match once in a blue moon????

In some ways I think the not-evil passive aggressive covert narc is even more damaging than the more obviously abusive ones, since EVERY single thing we responded to is questioned by us.

If my ex had threatened me openly or had verbally assaulted me, I would know my emotional reactions were warranted, but him disguising the criticisms and manipulation as caring, made that distinction so much more difficult and I too often felt like I was the one who was 'losing' it and being unfair to him.

Doubt about our own truths and perceptions plants horrible weeds that can strangle our healthy peace of mind and growth. xo

Something rang true for me in every single comment I have read in response to this post! I go around and around...am I crazy or is he crazy? I think the covert type of narc is so much more difficult to get away from because there is no concrete evidence of any wrongdoing. Sometimes I wish he would cheat or do something so I could say that he crossed a line. But he knows where the lines are and gets as close as he can to them, but does not cross.

Words come out of his mouth that are the proper thing to say (he was raised to be polite and gentlemanly), that he realizes are the things people should say in a relationship or as a parent, but they always sound so empty and meaningless coming out of his mouth. I have often said to myself that it seems like he has a script of phrases and just pulls something off the script to try to fit a given situation. He knows how to PRETEND to be normal. If he can play the part of a normal person successfully, then he appears to everyone (but me) to be normal. Alas I will always be viewed as the crazy one, the overly emotional one, the one with the problem. He'll sit calm, cool, and collected while I unravel slowly.

Our whole life is one giant manipulation (I see this now), but he can say that I also chose it and this would technically be correct. But the implication (again, covert) was that if I didn't choose the life HE wanted, we couldn't be together. I was head over heels at the time and wanted to marry him. It is only in hindsight 12 years later that I look back and realize how he got everything he wanted for his life, and how miserable I am living in his world. He told me once very early in our relationship that he has the ability to get people to do what he wants without them knowing that's what they're doing. There you go. I can paraphrase this comment quite easily - "I manipulate people into doing what I want." I laughed it off because I thought he meant OTHER people, certainly not ME. Yet here I am. How could I be so naive?

Now I am able to see the selfish motivation behind everything he does and says, but he presents it (disguises it) in such a way that he can always deny it. Whenever I call him on his self-serving behavior he always says, "I can't believe you think I would do something like that." Like he is such a great guy with such noble intentions, when in reality he is trying to get what he wants. Or when he says something offensive and I point it out he says, "It was just joke." Again, I am the only one who can see this part of him...so I must be the crazy one, the bitch. But I KNOW that I'm not. If I'm crazy/bitchy, it's because his behavior is making me that way...turning me into the worst person that I could possibly imagine myself being. The person I am around him is NOT me. It's some alternate version of myself that I have created as a defense mechanism in response to his craziness.

yes, yes, yes. I started to realise what I was dealing with when his mother died. No real emotion, odd behaviour etc. that seemed to be the trigger because after that I started really noticing the very real, very scary world of a "passive" as I call it, narcissist. No out bursts even when you would expect one, revenge in the form of forgetting to do important things, deliberately being late, bringing up things he said Id done weeks after the fact (often made up). it has got worse, possibly because I notice or age, not sure. Worst thing is everyone around you thinks hes great, solid and loving. Loving cause hes always near me, holding my hand, but its to make sure I dont wander off and talk to anyone else! loving he may seem, but sadly no. He cant feel. He can copy and thats what he does. Think thats why he watches so much tv. It is so sad. For him and for me.

You really hit the nail on the head!

I often read posts by several people on this site telling if their stories that included physical / verbal abuse, lying, cheating, criminal activity, etc and it often made me question whether my ex was a true NARC or not.

What I have learned is that like anything, there are various degrees of Narcissism and it can manifest and be displayed differently. What made my situation so difficult to process was that my ex was not outwardly doing a lot of these things, but took a more subtle, passive approach, which in turn made it look like everything was my issue to anyone on the outside.

I don't think my ex's narcissistic actions were ever intentional, I think on some level he cared about me, but he had a level of grandiosity and selfishness that prevented him from really being there for me or work on our relationship.

Sometimes that behavior is worse in that it is not as identifiable as a black eye. I remember saying to a friend once that I wish he had just hit me one time...that way I would have solid evidence...that way I would know for sure that he was a Narc...but hit me he did...emotionally.

This type of a more subtle narcissism is difficult for the person in the relationship because, in my own case, I often found myself questioning if I was blowing something out of proportion or misinterpreting something. It was like that movie "Gaslight"...I felt like he was driving me insane and messing with my head, but I didn't have any actual proof that I could show anyone else.

After he left, I learned that my feelings were correct as I discovered he lied to me about many things and cheated on me often. I guess next time I just have to trust my instincts better.

I hope however, that even though there are lesser degrees of Narcissism, people realize that the damage is just as severe to the victims across the board. I have been suffer from PTSD since the break-up (almost 5 years ago.) and still have moments of panic and anxiety and am trying to learn to love and trust again.

Remember: They say the devil is a charming man...and if every villain ran around wearing black with a long cape and horns, they would be too easy for us to identify.

This post is really something. I appreciate very much you posting about this. I dated a narc prior to the one I broke up with last year, and that narc led me to this site. (well, the relationship did lol)

And that narc was very cerebral, and passive aggressive. Selfish, and everthing had to be done on his time table. The whole relationship revolved around him, before I knew it. It was very subtle. Last year's narc was very obnoxious, verbally abusive, controlling, emotionally abusive, etc. Obvious to see. But the one prior to him--I thought at times I was losing my mind.

I would say...I get the sense that I don't matter much to you anymore. His answer would be...I love you, I want to make you happy. He would leave me out of plans, or not share with me how his day went. Never ask me about my day.

I remember addressing that. He would say...''I will try harder.'' (never did)

Stuff like that. In and of itself, one thing isolated seems harmless. Bunched together over time, it can be abusive...and make you feel like you're losing your mind.

And before I knew it, I had become insecure, and felt like a nag. Felt like I was prying into someone's life, who should be very straight forward with me. ''I'm trying to tell you more, dee.'' Huh? Oh thanks! Now I feel so special. But, what he did there was make me feel like I wasn't 'worthy' to be a part of his life, or know about the happenings in his life. All done very very insidiously.

He would talk about other women a lot. Designed to make me jealous. I never took that bait, but remember it was all very insidious. He would say...''this girl I went to school with, I bumped into her today at the store, and she told me I hadn't changed a bit. She missed me, Dee.''

He had stories like this a lot. I remember thinking, why is he telling me this? Looking back, now that I understand narcissism, I get why. But, God forbid, a man every approached me, and he knew about it. I must be doing something to entice the flirtation. Ugh.

They're such a chore.

Anyways...done with narcs! But, I wanted to just say this is a very overlooked topic...about narcissism. I thank you very much for bringing it up.

a well put post, mine worked, no one outside his immediate relatives or me knew what a split personality he is and always will be. When he moved in with me and for the first few months it was all fine but later on the verbal and mental abuse came spewing out, as well all know they take it out only on those people closet to them, their dearest people who seek to love them.when you live with a person the mask has to fall at some point, he cannot keep it on 24/7, impossible. I felt all the time we were never partners either, the only time we were on the same page was when we were looking into buying a house together, that was it and I now understand that he loved the money I had for the house, more than he ever loved me, but wait they cannot love anyway so it is a mute point............

neglect IS abuse

Ah yes, the LACKING... I remember it well. Covert abuse more often than overt. Insidious crazy making and projecting all the blame of it with passive aggression.

Thanks for pointing this out, there are many members who question is he really a narc? because he does NOT show the outward typical signs... but there are many masks they wear to fool others, it is often only when the mask comes fully off that we see their cold, empty of empathy nature and carelessness in how they have treated us for the abuse it really is.

Journey on...

The classic story of the silent and abusive narc is one I tell others to help them understand.

ExNH completely blew off our 14th anniversary. He had too much to do. But later in teh day, he emails me at how much he loves me and so forth and SUGGESTS that we plan to retake our marriage vows in Vegas during the Thanksgiving holiday about a month later. "I would be pleased to retake my vows with you in front of our daughter"....he says.

I'm excited...(and hopeful). After all the shit he has put me through in recent years, like a moth to a flame, I have "hope" and optimism that he is "out of the woods"///and we will be ok afterall.

For the next month I plan for it and tell family and friends. Get new dresses for daughter and myself. New inexpensive rings. Talk to daughter about how much fun it will be. etc etc. Over the month, he never talks about it again, and like a complete idiot - I'm hopeful this means he is planning something sweet and special for us.

We go there on Thanksgiving day. Nothing that day. Next morning, I say something casual like "Can you tell me the plans so I know when to have us ready to go?"....

You know what comes here. With a perfect and "loving" look he says "I did not get anything planned, so we can just go to dinner with daughter and us and have a great time".

He is a planner...whenever its anything he wants to do...he gets it done down to the minute detail.

And...of course, when I'm hurt and sad (and angry) - you guessed it - ITS MY FAULT, TOO MANY EXPECTATIONS, HE DID NOT KNOW IT WAS SUCH A "BIG" THING TO ME....ON AND ON.

Not one ounce of sadness or regret for hurting me - and here is the bottom line: HE DOES NOT FEEL ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND CANNOT ANTICIPATE OR RECEIVE ANY JOY THAT IT MIGHT HAVE BROUGHT TO ME - GIVING ME SOMETHING HE KNEW I WOULD ENJOY.

This was the moment I realized it would never change or ever love me. And I began to plan to leave.

Shit like this - small and large - happened all the time. Was it abusive? Did he say it all pleasantly? Was it a narc in action - HELL YES.

I had the beautiful experience of both the passive narcissist and the evil one. They are worlds apart in so many ways, yet after you dissect the "passive" ones and what he has done, the end result is the same in many ways and recovery is necessary.

It is actually easier to accept the evil over the passive. The outright blatant mistreatment is out in the open for you to notice immediate, the passive, is almost like a cancer, quietly killing you over years in time.

Either way, we need to heal. Glad you brought up this point so many members here can see this and maybe it will help them through their own Cognitive Dissonance due to the "passive" narcissist in their life.

Thank you bunches for this post!