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"Will there ever be another"
Ophelia
Member since:
1 year 19 weeks
1 year 19 weeks
Last activity:
34 weeks 3 days
34 weeks 3 days
"Will there ever be another"
Posted April 16, 2012 - 10:54am
I know for some of us this question lingers, will we ever meet anyone who made us feel as wonderful as our narc's did. That the narc set some kind of gold standard for feeling 'loved', in some ways.
I have been struggling with this, I know intellectually that a healthy love can feel good, but since I don't think I've ever experienced one, there remains a sense of pessimism.
So, here's something that is helping me. My estranged (by my choice, she is now in a nursing home) mother is a huge narcissist. Reflecting on my childhood being raised by her (she was also an alcoholic at the time), there were definitely times where we were close and loving and she said all sorts of things that made me feel 'special' -- but only between prolonged bouts of aloofness, hypercriticism, perfectionism, withdrawal, rages, and a total lack of empathy for any life form she shared a roof with.
At some point there was talk of removing me and my brother from her care and putting us in the care of Children's Aid. She actually raised the topic--I think she was warned by someone, the school or someone who had observed what was going on with the drinking, hoarding, filth, and neglect that she had better clean up her act. That's just a theory. But she threw that in our face every now and then, that 'if things didn't improve around here you could end up at Children's Aid'. We were children, and well-behaved, but as I entered my teens I started to challenge her more and more.
The notion of being removed from her terrified the hell out of me. Sure she wasn't perfect, I knew, but she was my mama and I loved her and I didn't want to be separated from her. Healthy, hunh?
It never happened, but I see some parallels at work here. Namely that I was attached to this dysfunctional individual despite the enormous harm that she was causing me. And: (important) goodness knows there were PLENTY of mothers (of my friends) who were clearly loving, supportive, nurturing, caring, empathetic, and kind, and my friends flourished in such households. They were happy, healthy, and I can see now how my friends realized their full potential as they matured.
So as difficult as it was (for a time, until I finally saw the light) for me to grasp that being with my mother was enormously destructive and as fearful as I was from being separated from her, the facts were there. She was poison to her children. Not sure that ending up at Children's Aid would have done me any good but the point is that our Narc's, despite how 'good' they make us feel, temporarily, are NOT a model upon which to base future relationships. That even if I cannot quite conceive of a relationship that is healthy and allows for the growth of both individuals and is still interesting and fun, the example of healthy mother/unhealthy mother helps me to understand that I need to *accept* that it is possible and refrain from fretting about the *what if it isn't* scenarios and just keep focusing on healing myself.
Hope that makes sense!
Also, when thinking about the good feelings that come from a relationship, I am now starting to frame it in terms of "runner's high" from a healthy relationship, and "heroin high" from a narcissistic relationship. You can still feel good, but it doesn't have to be at the expense of your soul, it can be in ways that are ultimately good for you.
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"Runners high" and "heroine
April 17, 2012 - 2:45am — lavendar19Healthy and sustainable "runners high" vs "heroine high" at the cost of your soul, I love your analogy.
My father, albeit an incredibly kind and generous man 99% of the time unlike N's and P's, was physically abusive to my mother several times in front of me due to terrible temper problems. He has not laid a hand on her though in over 10 years and has definitely become a changed man (again, unlike the N that often never ever changes). But to this day... I still recall the father who did occasionally rage and terrified my mother and I when he was angry. Could my intense and repeated attraction for P's and N's be due to my childhood and adolescence? Maybe...probably.. but it's also definitely due to my OCD. Disorder has a tendency to attract disorder, I wholeheartedly believe that. P's and N's are different, like me, but they're different on a whole completely different level. It scares me how easily I can recognize an N as I have in the past....and how incredibly turned on I become just by conversing with them and getting to know them at first...it terrifies me because I do not want to end up with a man like this.. I do not want a man like this to be the father of my children. It saddens me that I cannot be attracted to a nice, caring man and I'm trying to figure out how I can reach an equilibrium with my desires and what's best for me...
"Will there ever be another"
April 17, 2012 - 1:40am — RenegadeGod I hope not! the diseased, mommy enmeshed, controlling, judgmental, arrogant, whiny asshole I left in the dust was enough to last me at least 2 lifetimes.
ha ha ha ... whiny asshole...
April 17, 2012 - 1:57am — tootsgeeha ha ha ... whiny asshole... I recognise him! xx
sniveling little weasels!
April 17, 2012 - 4:04am — Renegadesniveling little weasels!
Well now it's my turn to cry,
April 16, 2012 - 11:17pm — OpheliaWell now it's my turn to cry, bgirl. If any if my words helped you, I'm happy.
I experienced a similar magnitude and power of that type of love that you felt. . It's mind-blowing. It was generated by us, not them. And you must realize that at 3mos of NC I am still vigorously trying to slap myself awake from this nightmare, too. But we must consider this: it simply doesn't make SENSE that any chance of a fulfilling love would die with the death of a N-centered relationship. It We may be afraid, but really this fear does not make sense. Love doesn't die like that. Love is powerful and good and waiting for us to reconnect with it in ALL its forms, including a relationship that is good for us.
It simply doesn't make sense that a relationship with a narc/psyco is the be all and end all. This world, this Universe, has so much more to offer than that. We just need to keep pulling ourselves out of this nightmare to be able to see it all clearly.
I was in a no win situation
April 16, 2012 - 11:25pm — bgirlI was in a no win situation and he knew it.
he knew how I felt. Knew how much I had put on the line.
What if I hadn't been true to my feelings?
I'd still be in the same position...on my own...because I know that even if I hadn't have acted on my feelings they would have consumed me with the what if etc and I would have probably been resentful.
So either way I was meant to be alone wasn't I Ophelia?
It's not so bad....I just have to start all over again...and I will.
Btw I love your name...I feel like I'm talking with royalty or a movie star xxxx :-)
X
B
I'm pretty sure my mother was
April 16, 2012 - 7:34pm — uncomfortablynumbI'm pretty sure my mother was borderline, though she has mellowed out quite a bit since the old days...one of my partners had a lot of her features and i felt like I was with my mother a lot of the time...
But the last narc was the best one I ever had, the good part was sooooo good and he was everything I want a guy to be...edgy, but nice....the hardest part about the dating game is accepting that what I had that felt so....so...alive and new like highschool..will never happen again..ahhhh dammit!!!
My N said, the first night
April 16, 2012 - 7:42pm — OpheliaMy N said, the first night that we were wrapped in each others arms on his couch, kissing for what seemed like hours, that it felt like high school. I felt that way too.
It may not be the SAME but it may still be GOOD. Nothing is the same as anything else, really. Things that are not the same are not necessarily less than. This applies in all other parts of life, why not with this? Surely the universe is not that devoid of creativity.
I do realize that one of the qualities I appreciate in a man is a sense of fun, a sense of wonder toward the world, and a rich sense of humour. That can go a long way toward putting sparkle into a relationship. At least for me. Such traits are not the exclusive domain of psychopaths, surely!
Time to start thinking outside the psychopathic box to which too many of us have been confined for too long.
Ophelia...this made me
April 16, 2012 - 10:49pm — bgirlOphelia...this made me cry...I felt so connected and happy and safe and loved for the first time ever.
I can't even verbalise the power of these memories and they are with me all day everyday.
I just hope with time they will fade...it is uncomfortable to know I felt the most intense love for a psychopath.
I don't know what's in store...I try not to think about it. Right now I'm learning to live without who I thought he was I'm not ready to contemplate what may be?
Lots of love
X
B
Can totally relate
April 18, 2012 - 12:34am — CaboB,
can so relate.... The illusion - none of it real, still after almost 5 months it's hard to wrap my arms around. Lots of work to be done on me before I could even think about getting involved and so scared of it. I just turned 50 so it may not even be an option so I need to get back to feeling comfortable in my skin again -- like I was 4 years ago. Can't wait for the divorce to be final so I can really put closure on it. The new GF can have him....
I do love what you wrote in
April 16, 2012 - 10:51pm — bgirlI do love what you wrote in your post...in a way it has given me more hope xxx
X
B
If I
April 16, 2012 - 7:23pm — neverlookbackever met a man that made me feel the way this person did something would not be right - I would be scared to death - something that felt that wonderful and good was just too good to be true, I have never experienced anything like it and I never will again and I dont want to
The first time a
April 16, 2012 - 6:53pm — wshtherapist told me "you choose men like your mother" I wanted to BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HER!
Then..........I realized she was right. FINALLY got my mother out of my life (6+ years now NC)......now the asshole man narc..... & my future years will be "narc-free zone"!
It's HARD dealing with your own mother treating you like shit, competing with you, abusing you.........
There are more of "us" than we know.
Hi wsh, it is sad to know
April 16, 2012 - 7:16pm — OpheliaHi wsh, it is sad to know that others have experienced such things, but I take comfort at least in knowing I am not alone. I hear you about wanting to beat the shit out of her. Men like my mother?? WTF?!
I refuse to let my mother get the better of me. In a way, this is why it is important for me to deal with my residual issues and just allow myself to 'accept' that it is possible that I may find healthy, satisfying love with a man. For my own sake, and also just to prove that Love will triumph over Evil.
I swear, when I visited with her in the hospital a couple of years ago (I saw her once these last 15-20 years, long story, before deciding to continue again with NC), when she morphed from the sweet little old lady who was so happy to see her daughter after so many years, to, over the course of a conversation that lasted all of 30 minutes, the cold, hard, envious, jealous person that she really is and always was, when I looked into those eyes, it was like looking at a demon. It frightened me. Her eyes were dead, like black holes, and they drilled holes through to my soul. That's when I stood up, put my jacket on and walked out of the hospital room and never looked back. I didn't know about narcissism then, but now I do and I understand what I was looking at.
Oddly it was that chance encounter with my mother that led me to realize my 15 year marriage was based on the wrong motivation, and set into motion my separation (BTW my ex-husband and I are on good terms), and then meeting my N, who subsequently D&D'd me. If I hadn't had that encounter with my mother I would never have met my N (long story) and I would never have been D&D'd and experienced such a huge eye-opening experience that led me to reflect back on my mother and my whole life and decide to sort this all out once and for all. OMG. Heh. I go NC again with my mom and the Universe throws another N into my path, who totally shatters my heart into smithereens like I've never experienced before.
Well, I GET IT NOW, OKAY?
NO MORE! ENOUGH! YOU DEMONS ARE NEVER GOING TO DO THIS TO ME AGAIN, GOT THAT??!!!!!
LOVE AND GOODNESS WILL TRIUMPH!
(ahhhh, that felt gooooood :-)
Love this! Thanks, Ophelia!
April 16, 2012 - 12:50pm — CaligirlIt was exactly what I needed to read today and very optimistic:) I have a narc mother too. Yes, she is hypercritical, complains, withdraws, gives ST, blames, lacks empathy for anyone she lives with, threatens, is moody, unpredictable, triangulates, and in between she'd give us kisses on the lips punctuated with some "I love you's." I would see how different my friends' mothers were, but I don't think it really registered then.
I like what you wrote about "runner's high" vs. "heroin high."
Hugs!
...so Caligirl is it any
April 16, 2012 - 1:39pm — Ophelia...so Caligirl is it any wonder that, when our very first Big Love on this Earth, that being our mother, was a narc, we somehow feel this incredibly powerful attachment to individuals who have the same problem, willingness to accommodate them to the n'th degree and difficulty letting go including psychically.
No wonder we thought the sun and moon shone out of his ass. Well it doesn't. The original template was severely damaged.
Time to throw that template out and create one that suits our needs, not theirs. Now, that will take some sustained self-work, but unlike narcs, that is something we are good at.
Ophelia, yes to all!
April 16, 2012 - 7:25pm — Caligirl"Willingness to accommodate to the n'th degree and difficulty letting go including psychically." Could not agree more!! Last night, a huge sense of longing for him swept over me before bed and I started sobbing. It was very strange because I hadn't sobbed in awhile and thought I was doing ok (having processed most of the relationshit), but I felt such a pull to him, and was just overwhelmed with sadness over the loss of love for the person I knew in the "honeymoon" phase. Perhaps it was a psychic connection.
I just finished reading a book on Narcissist Parents. I've had a couple of squirmishes with dear mom since I've been back (we live together). Once I was making these good points and sticking up for myself, she left the room and slammed her bedroom door. I figure the book will help me, and basically I have to not engage, but it's hard when they're trying to embroil you to get their "fix". I tend to stick up for myself, in not wanting to be engulfed. I noticed she also rarely smiles at all or gives me eye contact. I can only imagine being a little baby and having her frown at me all the time, when I read babies need to see smiles.
You cracked me up with "No wonder we thought the sun and moon shone out of his ass." So true, girl!! Yes, we need to throw the template out. Something I'm working on is re-parenting myself the way I wished for. I try to be the warm, nurturing mother to myself, because I never got that from her, especially no hugs or cheering up. She reports stories of how her mother was absent in her life and from what I hear, she was abused by her and other family members, but she won't admit that. Also, she has almost never been in therapy. She tried it once years ago when a doctor recommended her, but didn't stay with it beyond a couple appointments. No surprise there!
I bookmarked your post!! Thanks again! :)
"I try to be the warm,
April 16, 2012 - 8:28pm — Ophelia"I try to be the warm, nurturing mother to myself, because I never got that from her, especially no hugs or cheering up. "
Good idea Caligirl! My therapist also recommended this to me, it is something we need to do, who have not received that support on a reliable basis from our N mothers. Be your own loving mother.
And in Susan Anderson's book Journey from Abandonment to Healing her exercises include having conversations with your inner child. Actually writing them out--she stresses the need to do this. Having entire dialogues about fears, wants, needs, and so forth, and how to comfort and assure your inner girl that you will take care of her. Writing it out is really helpful, it's surprising the stuff that comes out, from both 'personalities'.
Learning to listen to, acknowledge, and assure our inner child could also make us better lovers and spouses, it would seem :-)
Susan Anderson's book
April 16, 2012 - 8:50pm — CaligirlYes, I did read this one. Thanks for reminding me and mentioning this exercise. I think that is a great idea, so when those childhood fears surface, we are ready!
I have also thought that doing this work on myself is going to help make me a better partner next time around:) I've learned so much about myself, bc of this!!!
This is great!! Yes, there is
April 16, 2012 - 12:32pm — HunterThis is great!!
Yes, there is always a root..
Hunter