how to do LC regarding spring break custody issues - advice please

how to do LC regarding spring break custody issues - advice please
0

the goal is LC.
the goal is non-engagement.
the parent coordinator has been called in to make the EXNH-Psycho back off from writing me long & crazy emails.

do i just hold my tongue about custody issues over the very long spring break?
do I NOT remind (just one time), and insist that sunscreen be worn, and bike helmets be worn?
I just answered my own question, right? No. Do not remind?
Do not remind that medicine be given?

there's no communicating with someone who wants to destroy you.
he's got me hooked with my little kids that are in his control.

arghhhhh.

just keep quiet?

do i just tell my kids? - wear sunscreen, wear your helmet, make daddy give you your medicine.

and now i get to worry about water safety. oh God help me.

ABC0311's picture

It's so difficult

Having kids with a narc is so difficult. I totally can understand what you are going through.

Every time I tell him anything, he takes it as a personal attack and I get chewed out. I absolutely hate it. But how can you not say anything?

It's a constant battle with me and I really don't have it figured out!!

Lineinthesand's picture

been there, done that

My exNH absolutely feeds off of that type of communication from me. Even if one of our children is running a high fever and I email to check and make sure he's alternating Tylenol and Advil (which, for our youngest, is the only way to bring down her high fevers), I receive an angry, long-winded reply letting me know how angry and spiteful *I* am being by bothering/harassing/annoying him.

And then he is so predictable in doing exactly the opposite of what I suggest (even if it means he goes against common sense) just to try and get more of a reaction from me.

For example, he consistently fails to buckle our youngest into her car seat (she's 3), snapping just the top snap but leaving the one between her legs undone. I pointed out that it's illegal and that I'm documenting it, and he smiled wide and accepted my challenge. Now he blatantly refuses and makes sure I know she's not secure in her seat.

So I taught her to buckle herself in, and she is so proud of herself and does it carefully every time she's in my car (with lots of praise).

Does she do it in his car? I don't know. But I can't control what happens on his watch. So I equip my kids the best way I can and pray that something terrible doesn't happen.

Two years ago, when our divorce was hot and heavy and I was still finding my sea legs, I cried to my therapist when he told me he was taking the kids to Sea World five hours away during his week-long summer vacation. I told her I just KNEW one of the kids would be kidnapped, or the baby would drown, or he would lose one. She reminded me that STATISTICALLY the likelihood of these things happening is so slim it's almost impossible. And when my mind began catastrophizing (such a great word for how I panic sometimes), to talk myself off the ledge by being as factual and unemotional as possible.

I made sure our youngest knew how to swim and enrolled her in a pool survival course. I taught my oldest two about stranger danger and what to do if they get lost (things kids should know anyway), and empowered myself by empowering them.

I could go on and on...

but what works for me is to keep quiet and not feed his need for contact by allowing him to get to me. Instead, I decide if it's a fear that I can do something productive about by working directly with the kids, or if it's manufactured in my mind and therefore not-productive.

You can teach your kids to wear sunscreen, but can pretty much rest assured that at some point even you might forget to slather them in it and they'll get burned.

Our pediatrician stepped in with bike helmets (another fear of mine) and lectured the kids about wearing theirs at both houses. They are hyper-vigilante now, and I didn't have to get involved at all. I think sometimes my ex tells them "if MOM said it, she's just being too worried. Forget her...blah blah blah". But if a teacher, doctor, policeman steps in....he can't dismiss them as easily. So outsource what you can ;)

I'm rambling a bit-sorry. I just know how hard it is to drop the rope and trust that all will be okay. But you HAVE to be able to not engage as much as possible (and it gets easier-I promise).

Renegade's picture

You'll Love This

God I hate these idiots. My son would come back from my ex's house (well, actually the OW's house my ex occupies)...and tell me that they had company and that my son had to sleep on the couch - they would make him give up his room so the guests had somewhere to sleep. In HIS bed!!!

And that's not even the worst of it. My child also told me that when there were too many people and not enough seats in OW's SUV, my child would have to ride in the cargo area - like a dog with no seatbelt.

OMFG I hit the roof. I filed with the court immediately and requested supervised visitation..which was granted. Because what he was doing with the bedroom situation was not only unhygienic, it was mentally cruel to him and what was going on with the car seating arrangements was life-threatening. The judge was not amused by any of it.

This is the kind of guy who just doesn't get it - nor does he care and I'm convinced he resents our child, his responsibility toward him and punishes him by demeaning him.

abreva's picture

I do love this

I am encouraged by this, and all of the words of wisdom you have been giving me.
Thank you so much.

I guess it's just a matter of time before EXNH-Psychopath does something outrageous enough for me to take him to court? This custody situation is not working.

The parent coordinator isn't working either.

Renegade's picture

Every time he violates the

Every time he violates the order, it's a contempt wrap. It doesn't happen over night. I gave my son's father 3 years to completely bury himself - and he did. Then I whacked him with a motion for contempt and decided to request a modification of the existing c/s order if I was in court anyway. I was armed with so much evidence, it was nauseating. I kept meticulous records all along, knowing it was going to come to this eventually.

I know it's a PITA, but keep a journal of every violation of both the support order and the visitation order...you will never remember every incident a couple years from now. Record date/time, incident and fall out. Keep two separate folders for emails - one for visitation/one for support.

I keep everything stored on an external hard drive in case my computer crashes or some other tragedy occurs - I always have back up.

The hardest part is detaching emotionally from the situation. All I can recommend is that you treat your ex like you would any other business partner. And have your boundaries firmly in place - do not deviate, I don't care how nice he seems like he's being at the time. There is always a motive with them....always.

Treat that order as if it's a legally binding contract....because...it is. And hold him to it!!

abreva's picture

do you think this will work even on a M.D.?

exnh-pyschopath is a "big successful doctor".

so, you just kept a file and didn't inform him of the mistakes he was making as he was making them?

Renegade's picture

A court order is a court

A court order is a court order is a court order. I don't care what his profession is...

Yep, I let him fall on his sword and never said a word. In cases when the childrens' immediate safety/health are in danger, you have to step in...notify the coordinator so that the court has a record of the incident(s). That way, the coordinator can't claim they weren't informed. Don't speak to what you want to have done to him; that's the court's place, not yours. Just tell the coordinator in your written correspondence that you want these incidents documented. Let him/her figure out what should be done.

My advice to you is to cease having any further verbal communications with the coordinator...put EVERYTHING in writing. And insist they reply in kind. I bet the communications from the coordinator will magically start being more equitable if he/she has to put it in writing!

With regard to financial stuff, oh yes - let him bury himself and don't discuss anything of this nature with him. He has a copy of the order, just as you do - and knows what the terms are. Any failure to adhere to it on his part is a willful violation and contempt of court. Each violation is a separate contempt charge, too! :D

If he gets really bad with the kids and you're worried about their immediate safety, there is always the option of filing a complaint with your state's child protection services.

abreva's picture

I sent you a PM

I sent you a PM

abreva's picture

Thank you!

Thank you for sharing all that -- it's not rambling at all to me -
you are describing so much of my experience.

So glad to know you are out there!

BTW - He DID lose my son at the theme park - TWICE.
The second time our son knew to go to a store and tell the cashier.

Outsourcing is a GREAT suggestion. I need to do more of that.
Both of their teachers recently requested that my children complete homework that was left undone while with their father.
I emailed him the simple facts about this (no emotion, concise) and I got back about 2000 words of parenting book non-sense complete with quotes.

I appreciate your advice.

abreva's picture

I reminded the kids, and left it at that .

They are young, but their father's NW apparently is very good with the sunscreen.

I told them to make the grown ups buy them a hat.

:)

Janie53's picture

Oh Abreva

I haven't forgotten you and the kids. A few rough days on my end. I will try to gather my thoughts tonight for you. I suck at typing.
In the meanwhile, love them, validate their feelings, and be the same mom you have always been.

Stay true!
Sorry,

Janie

Deidre99's picture

I think your ex would

I think your ex would probably do the opposite. Nah...you kids don't need a helmet....etc. I marvel that this insane asshole is allowed to be alone with kids. Any kids. Seriously. He is not a good dad ...I read ur other thread about what he is telling the kids about u. That is abuse. I hope it all works out either way. Hugs!!

phantom adoration's picture

When I was a kid, we did not

When I was a kid, we did not wear bike helmets, we did not have seatbelts, in the car or on the school bus. We used mud to treat bee stings, and butter on burns and I am not a kid anymore. Reminding him will not insure compliance, it will only insure his being pissed off and as Sparrow said likely the kids will suffer.
Through my lawyer I was told about a website, www.ourfamilywizard.com It eliminates contact, period. All inofrmation, meds, visitation, activities even money issues can be posted and accessed by both parents and family members if you so chose. It means NC.
Breath deeply.

Sparrow's picture

Trust that they will be

Trust that they will be tended to. DO NOT remind him of his responsibilities, he will resent that and take it out on the children. Remind you children, as you mentioned. All will be well.

You know the answers, you just would rather have them confirmed.

The kids will be fine, Mom may be a little stressed for the time being though! Lol. Hang in there and try to relax as best you can!

Stay strong!

oceangirl's picture

This was very difficult for

This was very difficult for me because the EXN did not attend to our son well at all. He did things such as make our son wear clothes that were a size too small, didn't give him enough to eat, not enough sleep, chores in the middle of the night, fighting, arguing, wrestling with him when our son didn't like it and said to stop, put him in dangerous/boundryless situations, such as on a not-all-the-way frozen creek, etc etc etc.
I NEVER relaxed when my son was on visitation. Eventually the stuff the N was doing started getting to my son and started affecting his school, friends, etc. When I got the school and the counselor involved, the N backed way off and has not had contact with his son for coming up on one year now. We go back to custody mediation next week. I have no clue what his plan nor ideas are except that he wanted more custody in the summer. WTF? I doubt he can get that, considering his lack of contact for a year.
My son was not tended to, not in a healthy way at any rate.
We are a so much stronger now, thankfully!

abreva's picture

Oceangirl, the EXN you describe is much like mine.

He feeds them too much, or not enough, has a history of denying them fluids (crazy), the wrestling til crying, dangerous/boundryless situations, losing our son multiple times in public places (crazy) -- so yes, etc etc etc too.
So, for me, trusting that everything is going to be fine is a blind faith fairytale proposition, because so often it simply ISN'T okay.

Why are you headed back to custody mediation? Was custody ever settled?

If the EXNH-Psychopath backed off of custody it would be wonderful. My children are suffering. But for him, it is a matter of ownership and winning. I don't know if he'll ever give up. He has begun to delegate and outsource his time to others -- so the precious time he fought for he is not even "using" -- no real surprise there.

agnesmurphy17's picture

Money & Control

You write it's a matter of "ownership & winning." It's a matter of the money he's coughing up in child support and controlling you. Extracting his pound of flesh for the child support & making YOU jump through hoops. It's all about control. And a man can control a woman through her children. Don't fall for it. Don't let him manipulate you via the children.

I know a woman who's ex is also a MD. He neglects the 4 year old terribly. Child comes back in the same dirty clothes, the hair not combed in 32 hours, no teeth brushing, and very hungry. Tales of being given coffee very late at night at a baseball game when she asked to be taken home because she was bored & tired. (Now what 3 1/2 yr old child can make up being given coffee to drink at a baseball game? But that's what he said, she made it up. And everybody believes him because he's a doctor.)

I would advise you to NOT remind him of anything. No engagement. If you "remind" then he will deliberately not do what you ask so as to bug you. Then if you chastize, he will deny. You cannot control him. When he has the children, that's that. Yes. They may be terribly neglected & do dangerous things. You must let go & try not to think about it.

But, with a MD, I think not much objectively bad can happen. He has to protect his image. No harm can come to these children really, because he would have to answer for that. His self-preservation instinct is greater than risking genuine harm so as to devastate you. There will always be low-level neglect. And all those "girlfriends" will be taking care of your children. Most women are nurturing. And most women think that if they help take care of his children, he will care for her. And if the children like her, then there is a better chance that the relationship will work out. So have faith in all those women who will be parading through the lives of your children.

I think what you call LC is very low contact. Never explain yourself. Never give details. No sentences starting with "I" or "you." Objective & brief does not include suntan oil or helmets. If you can fool him into believing that he's not bothering you, he will evaporate. These guys are really emotional vampires. They need to feed off the emotions of others. Your's is particularly dangerous because (if I remember correctly) isn't he a psychiatrist? An emotional manipulator who's in the profession of being an expert on what is good mental health. It's too creepy.

You must detach. Then he will find a new victim to feed off. What is more serious is the children's mental health. You do not want them to grow up into women who accept abuse from their lovers because that's what they saw their own mother do. Or boys who abuse women because that's what they saw their father do.

ABC0311's picture

agnesmurphy17

That was a great response. Thanks

abreva's picture

Thank you endlessly Agnes

You are being a hero to me.

I hear you. You are telling me not to remind him. Not to engage him. Not to bug him. And the pay off for me will be that I do not get harassed by him? He certainly would like it if I stopped reminding him - it makes him feel bad.

I have been purposely reminding him to provide proper clothing and shoes and underwear and socks and coats (etc.) so that 1) it's documented 2) so that my young children are comfortable 3) it's practical -- if they never come home with socks or underwear or a coat, I'm always providing it.

So, the fact that he sends my daughter to school without appropriately modest clothing for the playground - you suggest I leave it alone? And the homework that doesn't get done at his house, and then the teacher sends it home to me and we're doing extra here, and I'm the heavy? And the fact that my kids are exhausted and chronically sick and it makes for bad behavior at school. (He gives my daughter coffee and tells her to lie about it.) I've been purposely documenting this via email with him, and it makes him mad, but it has changed his behavior. Clothes suddenly (mostly) fit. Most of the time now, there are socks and underwear. My son is no longer having poop blow-outs at school (in his pants) due to massive constipation, because I forced the EXNH-Psychopath to follow the doctor's orders for medication.

I solved the ongoing lice problem by 1) bugging him for 6 months 2) getting the school involved 3) treating my daughter's hair EVERY single time she walks in my door with a non-toxic de-lice treatment and I still do this. Oh, he ranted and raged at me via email about it. But, the lice has stopped. When she walks in the door tomorrow, I will treat her hair as a matter of policy.

He never provides a hair cut, and for a long time he didn't provide a hair brush -- my daughter's beautiful long hair got shorter and shorter and shorter. Lice and tangles and a father who won't take care of you -- you end up with short hair. A friend of mine said "Send her to his house with a hair brush!" -- but then, really? every time I send her with a brush, or a toothbrush? These kids have to make him do it. So, I get it about not engaging with him.

Yes. You got his profession right.

The story you tell about your friend with the EX MD and the 4 year old is EXACTLY why I endured the marriage til they were out of that young young young age. I wanted them to be able to really report if something horrible was happening. At 6, they weren't quite old enough, but I thought EXNH-Pscyhopath was going to kill me so I left.

Deidre99's picture

I agree with sparrow.

I agree with sparrow.

abreva's picture

yes, you are right

I do know the answers, but I am walking on new legs and they are wobbly.

I need the reassurance that I am doing the right thing.

Thank you.

-Abreva

Sparrow's picture

I understand completely.

I understand completely. This what I meant when I said you know the answers. Because of every thing that you have been through, you tend to not so much doubt yourself, but need the reassurance. And that's ok. Ask away, that's what we are here for.

Before you know it, you won't be second guessing yourself. That day isn't too too far away! Ood luck, stay strong, and relax during this time. A nice long bubble btw sounds like the perfect thing. :)