The Magic Recipe to Going from Dating to Marriage

The Magic Recipe to Going from Dating to Marriage
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It was in the Yahoo articles today . . . So as long as you date lots of guys at one time and don't get physical with any one of them, you will be able to weed out the jerks and find the guy who is right for you . . .

You know what I think of this article . . . and all the other articles like it? Complete trash written by self righteous people who don't have a clue the damage they cause.

Okay, I can definitely see the point. Your body is flooded by oxytocin. You can't really think straight when you are being physical right?

Except for one thing. Being here on this site, I have read countless articles written by women who waited. Waited sometimes three, four months - even years before becoming physical with guys who may have started out as great friends and turned out to be horrible narcissistic abusive jerks!

These articles just upset me so much because they like to paint a pretty picture for you by telling you how you're the one who's been making all these "mistakes" while dating. They fail to see how complicated things really are and there is no magic dating recipe. There is no straight path to anything in life.

All these articles do is make you feel small, ashamed and stupid, but if you give yourself a moment to reflect on the reality of life - it's so clear that no one can really live up to these kind of expectations while dating! I know of several happy couples who had sex after only a couple of weeks into dating - some less than that!

In Jewish orthodox families, couples get married after only a handful of dates and ZERO intimacy! They don't even touch each other until after they have said their vows! My grandmother was betrothed at age nine! If sex leads to bonding and a clouded mind, who's to say when it is the right time? Many different cultures have their own perspective on dating. When did Yahoo become the authority?

M's picture

dating/relationship advice

My dearest girlfriend introduced me to this book as I was struggling with my marriage to the N. Now I am re-reading it as a guide for finding my true soul-mate.
It's "The Spiritual Rules of Engagement" by Yehuda Berg.
My favorite Rules:
#2 A man cannot be the source of a woman's happiness
and
#4 Never believe what a man says.

Qing Yuan's picture

Great post! It's true! I've

Great post! It's true! I've been checking out dating tips on line in book etc! It is full of crap! But what I so orry about is this playing the field mentality! Notall men are bad men and frankly I have to disagree with the dating a few men at once thing!!! How is that fair! Not getting physical is one thing! A good thing if u want to play it safe! But I would be upset to discover the guy I was dating physical or not ws dating otha girls at the same time! My mother always told me as a young womanto play the field, not to settle for one guy! Even as a youngster this advice did not help me! I always got caught and lost both or all the dates! I learned that it was better just to keep it simple! One date at one time! Besides these days I'm not exactly inandated with guys!!!! But seriously it's just not nice! It's game playing! I don't want it done to me! God I hate the thought of being some guys back up girl because the other girl he is dating is more attractive or appealing and is playing mote hard to get!!! So the bit that wound meup the most was the bit about dating lots of people at the same time! It might seem good for the person with all the dates! The dater, but for the dateeed I wud say it will be pretty hurtful to discover your in a que of otha potentials!!! I am gona teach my son to be respectful on his dates! If he had a potential love triangle I wud tell him to add it up on traits that are meaningful and to let down one of the girls gently! I wud not advice him to play the field or keep stringing them both along until he had made his mind! If he makes the wrong choice early on well therein lies a good lesson! No ithink it's best we learn this! Treat others as you would like to be treated! If u meat a narc and ur red flags are not waving wildly then I would say your still not ready to date! But if you meet a nice guy and you have him dangling on a thread of other guys! Well yea you might have the fortune to be so lucky but is that a nice way to start your potential relationship! I can have multiple dates if I want but simultaniuos multiple dates just sounds dangerous underhanded and narcy! Don't narcs do this when they are scouting for new sources?? No one man a time! Take it slow! Be the person you seek to find in your future partner! Think of it like this! If you don't wana meet a guy who has lots of sideline dates, sizing you up in the mix, then play by better rules!
Basics!!! Treat others as you want to be treated and I believe in karma! What comes around gies around! You can invite love into your life when your ready! You can be the light you want to have in your life! If you are confident and in command of your own light then those who also shine brightly will soon come! The cheating lieing narcs will get there just deserts one day! Rotten apples fall near the tree! The rotten ones can find other rotten apples! If you stay on the tree and grown and grow and flourish in your own growth! You will find your way into the hands of someone who you can be the judge of! If you know your own mind well enough then your fitted up perfectly with the tools to be more discerning! Just be the change you seek! So the articles about dating stink!!! We need to look at articles about loving ourselves and becoming people who can have good relationships! Its about change in the self! You cud date ten guys at the sane time nut if you still don't love yourself first and know your own mind and needs first, all ten are gona turn out no brainers!!! So yea, dump the articles and advice and retreat within I say! And as for dating a few guys at the same time well I think that's just kinda shallow and dangerous! X Scuse spelling am on my phone!!

Scoop's picture

Morning Vix

Morning Vix .. i have been giving this subject long consideration to muiltable date or not , i dont know if the american way of dating has really hit the uk yet but it seems to be getting that way . I read a book "dating with out drama " right after that i got date raped and then i had 2 years with a narc ..I WANT MY MONEY BACK PAGE PARKER !
Dating has changed though i think it is the advent of internet dating where there is a convayabelt of men and women to go out with . I had 6 months on guardian soul mates right and i went on sooo many dates some times i would have lunch with one guy and dinnr with another maybe fitting one in for afternoon tea , what a shallow exsistance it was and can i just say i have never met a bunch of loosers in all my life , even the ugly men had attitude on them and i suposse it was because they knew that in a couple of hours time they where having dinner with "sexy pam 2 "from Wiggen.I like the old fashion way of dating meet someone and over the months get to know each other then get drunk at a party and have youre first kiss ... etc ....but that takes time and thats what a lot of us on here dont have due to the tick tick tick of that stupid clock . I think men can smell that clock from a mile away , how many date have i had where i was sitting next to the most boring arogent man in london wanting to yell at him "listern you freakiod, baulding ,plebion twat , in real life i wouldnt look twise at you ,i am putting myself through this torture for the sake of my unborn child !" .... Never again will i do that , no online dating for me.
I supose i do still believe in the fairy story that i will be going about my businss one day and then bamm there he is and here me stays .I love the line from sex and the city "i have been looking since i was 15 .. where is he !"... maybe he is right under my nose? maybe cupid has a plan for me ? maybe i will be single for ever ?...Nah.. not for ever someone will come along .

Amy's picture

I will say that I think

I will say that I think there is nothing wrong with having lunch or dinner with more than one guy before you get serious and exclusive about one of them. That is how dating is done today.

My personal reasons are:

1) that is how men date - many women until they ask one to be committed and not see anyone else

2) If you focus on 1 guy and you want him to like you, you won't know of he is really right for you or not. You are focusing on him and trying to make sure he likes you -BEFORE you know if he is good for you or not1

Susan32's picture

It never got physical

I always held out the hope of dating my ex-Psychopath professor. He always held out the promise of us having a romantic relationship... even AFTER I met the girlfriend/fiancee.

I considered him a friend. We never got physical, thank God (dodged that bullet)-that could've led to babies and the D&D would've been a horrific experience.

He dangled the promise of a romantic relationship in front of me... when in fact he was dangling the promise of a RELATIONSHIP,a human relationship. It was like always standing in the doorway, and never being let in. He'd drop a couple of hints about himself, incredibly secretive... and I was always left, wanting to know more. He knew LOTS about me. Our conversations would be one-sided. He'd plug me with personal questions, and if I attempted ANY sharing, he'd withhold. I'd even sigh, "I'm tired of talking about myself. Tell me about yourself."

When I told him (this was during the D&D) that his father was a professor like mine, he got angry (he was probably paranoid,thinking I had tattled to dear ol' Dad, but I didn't) When I asked him what led him to being a vegetarian, he snapped, "It's none of your business."

AFTER the D&D, he said in a very disconnected way, "The teacher mentions personal facts about himself so he can look human." He talked about being human, but he certainly didn't ACT that way. He's the only person I've ever known who's said "I'm human" in a DEFENSIVE way.

Kelly's picture

Human

The last one I dated had to tell me he was "normal" in a defensive way - completely unprovoked!

Amy's picture

Actually....

I was intrigued and went and found the article. I didn't feel like it was telling women we are doing something wrong. I felt the advice was spot on! I liked how it warns women about the oxytocin effect.

"So as long as you date lots of guys at one time and don't get physical with any one of them, you will be able to weed out the jerks and find the guy who is right for you . . ."

I agree 100% with this! I think most of us who had relationships with N's, whether getting physical or not, focused on the one guy. I know I personally allowed myself to get swept off my feet and didn't date anyone else. I won't do that again. Also, I think it lets us see some "real" guys versus N's - as in "if he seems too good to be true, he probably is."

"Many women toss out great prospects because they aren’t swept off their feet instantly. Remember that men who sweep you off your feet right away might be a little too practiced in the art. You’ve got to wonder who else he’s swept away that week. Look for substance."

How true is this??!! I think at the very least, dating multiple guys without intimacy lets us learn how to weed out the crap! And when dating more than one guy, we are not just dying for 1 guy to pick us. We are in the driver's seat, choosing who is best for us. I think there is less of a risk of compromising ourselves if we date this way.

All in all, I did like this article. Just my $.02. I am not into on-line dating, but I think this applies to how *I* plan to date.

Scoop's picture

heres my two pennys worth

heres my two pennys worth about dating , the only way we can get girls to stop falling for psycopaths is education of their trates , if a narc turns on the charm there is not much a girl can do , but most men are not narcs that is the good news , its difficult to remember that when you have just been with one . We women in the west are told that we have equality due to the advent of the sexual revoution but i would beg to differ on that , us women may have changed but that doesnt mean men have caught up yet and the "locker room "mentality is still very much alive and kicking .This is why i think internet dating is a very bad idea for women because she is saying to men "i am available" straight away which takes alot of the work from the men . Let the men come to you and make them work their butts of for you , go out join things be active and they will come ,"build it and they will come " lol (field of dreams Kevin Costner...raving narc ...).

i would say ladys lets go back to the 1950s , he can hold youre hand if he is lucky .We women need to start the a new with equailty and lets get it right this time , topless women in newspapers and women dancing round poles is NOT EQUALITY !

Kelly's picture

Agreed and Disagreed and extremely conflicted

Amy, I agree with you for sure. My concern is what happens when that doesn't work. . .

I don't believe there is any 100% method for dating and what bothers me about this article and articles like this one, is that it assumes too much and doesn't provide a realistic vision, so I think it just sets you up for disappointment. I can see the logic. I do believe that getting physical too soon can bond you to the wrong guy early. I've been there ;) Also, dating lots of guys does give you the opportunity to compare and keeps you in charge - - been there as well ;)

Neither method worked for me. Eventually, you are only human and you're going to get physical. Once you do, theeeeen you see a side of the guy you would not have seen otherwise. So many women have posted here that the men they married completely changed after marriage!

Once a narcissist get what he came after - they stop pursuing. So, the longer you let him pursue, it doesn't really make a difference in my book anymore because they will put on the charming wonderful routine for years if they must.

I agree with scoop "the only way we can get girls to stop falling for psycopaths is education of their traits"

These articles miss the point! They never mention personality disorders and what to look out for once you are in a relationship and knowing - really knowing what to look out for when you are dating. What are those red flags? How can you spot a master manipulator?

When I started dating, I read all those articles and books and all they did was make me feel like a failure. Now! After educating myself about dangerous men, Now, I know why!

The reason we buy into these methods is because they do mix some truth in. Unfortunately, they are also creating a fantasy. Do it this way and you will find Mr. Right . . .
It just isn't true and they don't prepare you for when Mr. Right turns out to be Mr. Very Wrong.

And actually, I for one do believe that most guys are narcissists. I wish it wasn't true, but I do believe that is the case in this society. This culture is breeding narcissism. It's all around us. I happen to be living in the narcissistic capital of the world, so I could only hope that what is true for me, isn't the norm.

Sorry, these articles just really upset me because I fell into the trap of reading all "The Rules" and really believing that "if only I just . . ." It's not my fault. The only problem I had was setting aside my feelings when I saw the red flags.

I think that could happen even if you are dating five other guys at the same time. Eventually, someone will win out and then . . . he shows you some nastiness and you wonder . . . "what happened? He was so great? And I let so many other guys go to be with him? And, his family is so wonderful. And he can be so charming . . . and . . ."

Scoop's picture

Are all men a bit narc ? I

Are all men a bit narc ? I know when i was growing up i was given dolls to play with and my brother was given guns . Theres the diffrence right there , i was brought up to nurture and care and my brother was brought up prepairing for war (wtf but its true why else would we give boys guns to play with ), i was encouraged as a girl to ask myself "how dose this affect everyone " and my brother was encouraged to ask "how does this afect me "... this is what i mean about equality , it is an illousion .society is still creating a master -servent senario between men and women .
The only way a (normal) man will get marryed is by falling in love . So the age old question is how do you get a man to fall in love with you ?.... if i had the answer to that i would be a very rich woman ,the answer is there is no answer but you can protect youre self and youre heart by not throwing oxytocin into the mix while we wade through the sea of jerks out there .

Amy's picture

I get what you are saying

Unfortunately, if your goal is marriage, you are going to overlook a lot of stuff. I have seen a LOT of my friends do this after 30 - they freak out and latch on to one guy and push for marriage.

I am not trying to defend the article in its entirety, but there are good points. Men are holding out longer for marriage because they can typically get what they want really easily (sad but true). So if that is the GOAL, this article makes sense.

I also like the idea of dating multiple guys - for the reasons I stated above.

I am not sure if educating women on N traits is going to do the trick - it is very complex to a person who had never been involved with one. I DO think that teaching girls/women to not take BS and not accept inappropriate behaviors is key - regardless of an N or not. We all need to learn that we deserve better and to stand up for ourselves. I think that is a major part of the problem - we let things go or try to be "nice" and not speak up. My gf's who are outspoken have never been in an N relationship - they have a higher self-worth than I ever had and I see a huge difference. Fortunately, they are helping me build mine!

Regarding the last part about 1 guy winning out and then showing his true colors - well if we are unwilling to accept that crap and are WILLING to walk away because we know we deserve better, I think we can keep from getting hurt - as much. Part of the problem is we don't usually see that UNTIL we are invested. They usually don't show their true colors until we are hooked - ya know? THAT is when we need to run away - the moment the mask starts to slip off.

Does that make sense?

Kelly's picture

Perfect Sense ;)

That's exactly my problem. I've been too nice and when the mask starts slipping off, I close my eyes, cover my ears and go "lalalalalalalalalala" When I really should be running for the hills!

That mask usually comes off after I've already become hooked. I may start seeing signs here and there, but you have got to be a strong strong lady to be able to get out after you have invested so much of your time, emotion and your body to a man you really believed was "the one."

This article doesn't really tell you what to look out for and it is directed at women (like myself.) Pushing thirty, family and friends (and my biological clock) laying on the pressure . . . It's a recipe for disaster.

Amy's picture

I know

ME too. But I am now 36, have a great kid, own my home and have a good job. I am not gonna take shit from anyone anymore. I am NOT desperate. I feel bad for the women who feel like, at 30, if they don't get married to the first guy that comes along, they will never have a chance. So they put up with BS - whether the guy is an N or just simply a jackass!

Kelly you are only in your late 20's? Don't sweat it! I am having a blast at 36!

I feel like I should write dating articles! LOL!

Kelly's picture

Thanks Amy :)

The pressure at 30 is amazing! It's completely nutz! It from every direction! I was at the hair salon last week and my stylist asked me if I was married - but in a way that sounded like I SHOULD be married . . She was only around 22. So I had to say . . "no."

I still felt very good about getting my hair done ;) It's just this weird mix. I can't do anything for myself without having it thrown in my face that I'm single! I went hiking last week and throughout nearly the entire hike, I had to watch several lovey dovey couples holding hands in front of me . . .

makes me feel like going home and stuffing my face with hagen daz, drinking, chain smoking and singing sad fm . . wait that's Bridget Jones . .

narcdx3's picture

Single

I felt horrible being single too. I married at 23 to a Narc that tormented me, divorced and married again quickly to someone I had known for years--didn't matter cause I didn't really know him. Soon after that marriage I ended up back with the first N. I just recently ended that and I swore never another man--but guess what I allowed myself to get knocked down again---not married but I gave my soul to him. I have my gut full now. I can think about it clearly now---I felt like society looks down on a single woman at my age, there must be a reason etc. But its true for me too, my married friends wish sometimes they were single too. There is nothing wrong with being single--but I certainly get where your coming from and what your saying. I have zero single friends--makes it tougher I tell you.

Amy's picture

KELLY!

All my married friends envy the fact that I am single! For the first time ever, I am enjoying it too! There is nothing wrong with being single. Go out and enjoy yourself. Hang with the girls, flirt with guys. Total confidence booster!

Kelly's picture

:)

That would be good! I'm having a lot of trouble meeting single women I'd like to hang out with. All my friends are already drifting away from me. They are all in relationships and they are hanging out with their friends who are in relationships.

It's just been really difficult . . . I tried volunteering, joining hiking groups, going on singles vacations . . . next thing I may try if I can get more settled with my financial situation is joining some kind of sports team. Kickball or softball.

I really wish I could find dating and flirting fun again. It seems really dumb because I am young and I am attractive. It's just not fun for me anymore. I'm sick of being lied to. It's been too many abusers, master manipulators, narcissists and at least one sociopath in a very short span of time. The last guy pretty much ripped my heart out. It wasn't even a long term relationship and I have no desire to be with him again, (he is a seriously disturbed narcissist.) I haven't been desirous of anything romantic ever since.

When I think about getting close to a guy, literally, just the thought of it get's my anxiety up through the roof, I have a slight tick and I go into a sort of shock. It's really bizarre.

It's great to know that you are happy and living it up! I'm doing my best to get back into my grove. I want my married friends to say the same about me! They probably won't - even if they are thinking it.

Amy's picture

kelly!

you will get there. You just got out of a really bad relationship. You can't just expect to be ok and partying within 5 mins. It is not that easy. Go to lunch with girlfriends. Shop (doesn't mean you have to buy). Focus your energy on YOU - you don't have to discuss the N. Do that more frequently and you will be able to have fun again! You will forget him! After that you can think about having fun with a normal guy again. You just have to recapture you first!

:)