For all the girls

For all the girls
Posted July 30, 2010 - 9:35am
0

This is for all the women on this board, something that has nagged at me for almost four years:

Did your narc make you feel like a guy?

I always felt like he treated me like a guy--obviously the lack of affection, kindness, gentleness, chivalry, etc, had a lot to do with this. But did you ever feel it was more than that? I always felt I was expected to be a man, be tough, be emotionless, etc. Sometimes I have felt that it was that single underlying thing that kept me so off-balance. Like I was always trying to get him to see me as a woman, the way he obviously saw other women we'd meet.

Don't get me wrong: there were the comments about my being pretty or sexy, etc., and the door holding in public, that sort of thing. But underneath it, I almost feel like he was trying to make me feel like a man. Sometimes I wonder if it was so he didn't have to feel responsible for me. I remember after like three months togther I bought a grill that had to be put together. This was me, newly divorced, with two practically baby daughters and no one to help with anything. He saw me with the box and didn't offer to build it, so I asked him, will you put this together for me? He said, "You can do it no problem." And he went to sunbathe in his yard. I cooked for him on it that night.

At the time, I remember thinking, "WTF?" and then RATIONALIZING that I should be flattered that he thought I was capable enough to do it myself.

He would do this flip flopping thing, though, where he would say, "You don't need a husband; you never ask me to do anything for you: change your oil, fix your window, wash your car. You don't need me." And then when I'd ask for help he'd say, "I like Sandra Bullock because she remodels her homes by herself."

As you guys know, I've wondered often if my n is gay, so maybe it's partly this--being with a guy who is more comfortable with men. Or maybe it's because he is like a fourteen year old boy who hangs around with only guys and is stuck in that mode of telling each other "don't be a sissy."

Any thoughts?

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happydaysahead's picture

Guess I should consider myself lucky ..... :P

July 30, 2010 - 7:28pm — happydaysahead

My N at least put the grill together before he expected me to cook him dinner on it !! Are you guys jealous ?? Ain't I a lucky one ?? :P

Susan32's picture

Gaydar

July 30, 2010 - 7:03pm — Susan32

Throughout my "relationship" with my ex-Psychopath professor, my friends would often drop BIG HINTS that he struck them as gay. One friend said "He prefers young men." (He did have a circle of young male disciples, but had NO male friends his age, and was in awe/fear of older men, such as his Dad) Another-whom I'm still in contact with, said, "He is attracted to you because you look like a boy."

My ex-P treated male students MUCH BETTER than female ones. He'd be visibly perturbed if male students defended me in class. It was the male students who could tell that he was a player;the female students were more likely to defend him. In my senior year, before the D&D, one of the female students in his class said she found him condescending. While female students tended to sympathize with my ex-P, he did NOT have female student groupies because of the way he treated them.

My ex-P was very effeminate in his mannerisms and voice. He was the best dressed professor. He'd dress in a butch way, but he sounded... girly. He wanted to come across as manly... but LOTS of people thought he radiated gaydar.

No wonder I didn't end up marrying my ex-P.

I needed the closet space.

helldweller's picture

Susan

July 30, 2010 - 7:13pm — helldweller

Oh. God. I think we might be able to wrap up this whole thing LOL

Susan32's picture

Not enough room in my closet

July 30, 2010 - 7:21pm — Susan32

What's weird is that my ex-Psychopathic professor and my Narcissistic former boss sound VERY similar. Both have very feminine ways of speaking.

The BIG difference? My N former boss had EMOTIONS, he could feel physical pain, and he was very much out of the closet. He and his boyfriend went to China. He's open about being gay.

Most of my classmates thought my ex-P was playing at being straight, as if surrounding himself with the female professors somehow made him straight (for awhile, I thought he was dating the Earth Mother professor who resembled Mama Cass Elliott) Jim McGreevy said he slept around with lots of women before coming out as gay.

People were *SHOCKED* when my ex-P's girlfriend was revealed. A GIRLfriend. She was much more masculine than me (and taller than him) When she wore a tank top to the graduation picnic, she was the subject of lesbian jokes.

I dodged a bullet. My closet space couldn't fit a person.

sparky2009's picture

Yes I got this feeling a lot

July 30, 2010 - 4:24pm — sparky2009

Yes I got this feeling a lot like he treated me like his buddy sometimes. He would always make comments about women in front of me like we were old guy friends. He still told me I was sexy and things like that but I completely understand what you are saying. Never felt like his "girlfriend."

better off's picture

Don't know about the rest,

July 30, 2010 - 12:06pm — better off

Don't know about the rest, but the flip-flopping thing is the same no matter what the issue. Whatever YOU are doing is wrong, even if it's what they just said they wanted you to do! So yeah, why don't you ever ask me to fix something? turns into I like women who fix things themselves.

Double bind, no win, narc land.

happydaysahead's picture

If and it's a BIG if...

July 30, 2010 - 7:32pm — happydaysahead

If it was something that benefitted HIM, then I MIGHT have a chance of him helping but if I asked him to help or I asked him to do something that would have only made my life a little bit easier, I was just a spoiled little princess.

And yes to the flip flopping. One day it was one thing and the next the total opposite. I hated the walking on eggshells wondering what day this one was !!

Man, I hate him--he is such a DICK !!

wholeagain's picture

Yes

July 30, 2010 - 9:42am — wholeagain

The exN wanted me to think/praised me for thinking about sex "like a guy": compartmentalized and separated entirely from love. He said that's how it is for guys, whether they'll be honest about it or not. If they tell you that sex and love are combined they're big fat liars. (That was a big tactic for him, telling me that "all men think this way about XX, but most of them lie to women about it."

Also although he was very good about opening doors, he was very into women's rights. Doesn't fool me anymore, he has bitter rage toward women, it was something he used to hook supply aaaaaall the time and it was very effective.

'Cause, you know, he was so enlightened!

And btw the way Helldweller, practically everyone who ever meets the ex swears he's gay.

narcdx3's picture

Is he Gay???

July 30, 2010 - 12:24pm — narcdx3

Oh my goodness---people think my exN is gay. There were rumors at work about what went down. The 1 was I found out he was messing with the other girls at work, the other was I found out he was really gay and I was mad about it. He always said he was metrosexual---he would tell me who was a hot man etc. He said he was in tune with his feminine side. Now I'm setting and think, "we did it it wasn't extra special, is he gay????" He went to my hair dresser and she swears he is gay. Says he mentioned a gay guy and immediately said, "But I'm not gay". she said her gaydar went up---over protective and deffensive==gay. So that just adds another worry----finding out he wasn't Mr. Abstinent(he claimed he was sexless for over 2 years)guess I should go be tested huh.

better off's picture

Mine was exceptionally

July 30, 2010 - 12:39pm — better off

Mine was exceptionally defensive about not being gay, and that always made me uncomfortable. He made more comments about NOT being gay than anyone I have ever met. In fact, EVERY straight guy I know kind of think it's, um, ASSUMED that they aren't gay. It would be like a white guy saying, I'm not black. Well, duh. haha

Susan32's picture

Homophobic and flamboyant

July 30, 2010 - 9:10pm — Susan32

My ex-N boss was openly gay... and mocked other gays, all in good humor. He had a sense of humor, and was honest about having a boyfriend. He didn't date women to have a heterosexual facade. He was a narcissist, he could be a bully... but he was honest about things like that.

On the other hand, my ex-P professor was incredibly homophobic. A paradox, since his favorite philosopher, Ludwig Wittgenstein, was openly gay for his time and had boyfriends. My ex-P lambasted gays/drag queens as freaks, yet found homosexuality immensely fascinating and radiated LOTS of gaydar.

When I told him he should watch the late Derek Jarman's "Wittgenstein" (which is quite openly homoerotic, Jarman was gay-one of the scenes has Wittgenstein cuddling in bed with his boyfriend), all my ex-P would say was that it was "weird." He condemned Ray Monk's "Wittgenstein: Duty of Genius" because of it being "gossipy" and "focusing too much on Wittgenstein's private life." Wittgenstein was gay in the UK back when it was against the law. He could've been imprisoned for it like Oscar Wilde;one of his brothers belonged to a gay rights group in Vienna and eventually killed himself. Wittgenstein was out and proud--something my ex-P found extremely discomfiting.

helldweller's picture

better off

July 30, 2010 - 1:02pm — helldweller

That was one of the maddening things. He would not speak up to defend himself about anything, so I'd say "Are you gay" or "All of the parents at school think you're gay because you don't come around me and you and your brother and your foster child are the "family"" or "Are you gay or why won't you have intercourse with me or look at me during sex?" He would never say anything at all. But he never said anything about anything. His car would be gone overnight and he'd let me go on for a week crying about how he left town again without telling me before saying, "My car was in the shop. See how you accuse me of nothing?" MADDENING. My ex husband just looks at him and says, "LOOK AT HIM, HELLDWELLER! HE IS SO GAY!"

narcdx3's picture

Family thinks he's gay

July 30, 2010 - 1:07pm — narcdx3

Yeah my nephew is 16, a football player and gym buff. This guy always went to the gym and prided himself on his "guns". He was of the shorter side but was built nice. My nephew refers to him as the queer. I said hey he's not queer just look at his guns. He of course said so what--look at the rest of him he's queer. I think now he's just not sure---either way it's somewhere I've never been.

narcdx3's picture

Gay

July 30, 2010 - 1:00pm — narcdx3

Guess your right. I mean I have never felt like I had to tell ppl I was straight---it seems to speak for itself. He has a lot of gay friends both male and female. There were several lesbians where we work--2 were his greatest friends. The same 2 was all over me cutting up all the time but never did I have to say look your not my kind---they knew I was straight as a stick! Guess he does have tendencies and mayb his women hunting is his way of dealing with being in the closet--his last attempt to prove he is a man.

hitandrun's picture

His own father thought he was gay

July 30, 2010 - 9:33pm — hitandrun

He told me his father was questioning if he was gay for a long time. And he does have a "special" relationship with one of his friends from high school. The ex even has a bit of a lisp..very very subtle. But isn't effeminate. He will get mad if you ask if he's ever been with a man or if he's gay. I asked a few times after I heard about his father. His Dad must've been glad when I came on the scene.

Before I stopped looking at facebook, I saw a picture of him with his "special friend" I never met before. Boy, it was easy to guess who was the bottom b*tch!

I wonder...

Maybe I was just his beard?

almostlydia's picture

This is one subject I know a

July 30, 2010 - 10:26pm — almostlydia

This is one subject I know a WHOLE lot about. I think gay men are a great supply to the somatic N who is all about getting adoration with their bodies. Plus, there are sooooo many living in the closet behind wives and girlfriends they keep your secrets because they have to. There is a whole culture of men out there that absolutely do not consider themselves gay or part of the whole efeminate (sp?) gay world - they just like fu*king men. Look on Craigslist -its a shocker. And who else will give all the blow jobs in the world that all these N's demand? Not to mention the availability and easy accessibility. Being in the design profession, I have been surrounded by gays forever and never had any bias necessarily. Live and let live. But now, having found that the OW was actually a OM, I have my ill feelings to put it mildly. I have never seen a less discriminate species in my life. And I hate it. I know it's much the same way I naturally hated all the OW's and that hate eventually may ease up, but for now, I am sick of it all. It doesn't help that I live in the number ONE gay town in America.

Mine did the same thing, denied being gay more than any straight man would ever even consider necessary. Was completely homophobic but had many gay clients. One day in the car just out of the blue, he said 'I am not gay!' and i thought 'duh?' where did that come from. I almost expected him to say 'did I say that out loud?' because it just came out of the blue. Another time he said ' some of my clients don't know if I'm straight or gay'. Now what straight man says these things? NONE. Nor do they stretch their asses and flex for the gay guys on the beach to deter their attention away from the young pelvis walking down the beach. How humiliating - to watch them laughing at us - at me. I was watching the whole thing from behind my book thinking WTF??? The real kicker was our trip to Mexico as I sat on the beach for hours alone knowing that he was hooking up with the large group of guys from the night before. Words can not describe the state I was in.

I decided that perhaps they needed their own group name since they refused to be gay. The only one I could come up with so far is 'closet cowards'. Maybe as a group we can do better.

I do find this incredibly interesting that many of them have this in common. I thought it was just me.

Susan32's picture

I was my ex-P's beard

July 30, 2010 - 9:47pm — Susan32

To quote one of my friends, he was "using me to LOOK HUMAN."

Some men use women to look straight;others use women to look human.