Register and join our discussion in the Message Board
i have high lighted another legacy from my time with my narc and its to do with taste and choises with decoration .
I have brought my boats lovely ladys , its a 50 foot narrow boat , the inside is all sound it has everything in place to be beautiful it just needs painting and pretty curtains that kind of thing , so i am looking at intreior design and i cant seen to make the simplpist choises , The reason why is after 2 years with a narc ALL my choises where ridiculed , i would buy a new dress and he would laugh at it , he would laugh at anything i brought for my house , he would laugh at my choise of music , tv ,friends , phone , car ...oh everything was bleeding laughed at it has destroyed my ability to trust my own taste . It took me a week to decide on what duvet cover to by for my bed , i went back to the shops all week not being able to choose .It became a running joke with my friends that i doing my head in over it . i chose in the end and it is lovely .
I know on the whole sceam of things its a small problem but i wonder how deep it goes and "duvet gate " was just the tip of the iceberg .
Anyone else having this problem
Scoop x
Mine never critized my
August 3, 2010 - 1:37pm — hopefuljmsMine never critized my tastes, quite the opposite. Probably because our tastes were the same. That was one of the things he told me that was different from him and his ex-w. She made him dress all preppy and I preferred more city chic. He was sooo complimentary in the beginning and then as soon as things went south all of the compliments stopped and no matter what I did it never made it any better.
I have read that these guys are stuck in the romantic phase of a relationship and as soon as that ends, and reality sets in, they go looking for that romance again with someone else.
Mine found it in a girl 17 years younger than he is. Boy is she in for a rude awakening!
I know this all to well
August 1, 2010 - 11:21pm — betty2020I know this all to well Scoop. Living life constantly on shaking ground and never trusting your own judgment for fear of disapproval. Well i can assure you honey, i have all the up most faith in your decisions. In fact, your ability to make sound choices was always there. Your Narc did everything he could to make you think otherwise and distroy that but thats over now. Trust and have faith in yourself. I know what ever your choices are they will be what is right and good for you. I would love to see what you pick out....im sure it will be perfect!
only one way to go...Forward (tm?)
Fear of disapproval
August 2, 2010 - 8:12am — Susan32That is so validating. When I was with my ex-P professor, I never felt comfortable with him. My body would instinctively tense up. My body would say one thing, and somehow I convinced my conscious mind that he was OK and looking out for my best interests. He'd say "you're defending yourself" (as if it were a bad thing) and that I was using "defense mechanisms." Well, in retrospect, I was defending myself from an emotional predator (at an unconscious level)
His constant negativity and criticism... I sure don't miss that.
As I told my mother at the beginning, it's really odd dealing with a man who can't take criticism, yet has no opinions/beliefs of his own.
Why would a man be unable to take criticism, when he didn't have his own beliefs to defend?
I know how you feel
July 30, 2010 - 12:42pm — ClusterFI think I may have had one bf who wasn't a narc, and with my upbringing, my taste hasn't had much of a voice over the years. Even when people would come into my house and say how much they like it, I'd always denigrate it because I thought it wasn't what I SHOULD like. Ridiculous.
On the other hand, I recognize now that I do have somewhat expensive taste and when making a decision about something I have to live with every day, I don't want to get stuck with something I get sick of quickly. That's just practical.
You rock with a boat, that is so great--this may be something as simple as not wanting to mar the rest of your experience with it by decorating it in a way you might tire of soon.
I'd also suggest no mustard-color anywhere! ;-)
Scooop
July 30, 2010 - 8:34am — helldwellerOnce again first off, I am so freaking proud of you and your BOAT for god's sake. You are too cool for words!
Ugh. EVERYTHING I did was about whether he was going to like it. If he was coming to dinner, it had to be a gourmet, Food Network feast. If he wasn't it was Hamburger Helper. If He was coming for cocktails it was his brand of vodka, otherwise whatever was on sale. Everything I wore was to please him, everything I listened to was to please him, everything I talked aobut was to try to interest him.
He never ever criticized anything, but I was always on the offensive about it, dreading the day when he might. He always used to come over to my house and say, "It's so beautiful here. You have such a knack for decorating." But whenever I chose lighting or paint or anything else for "our new house" he hemmed and hawed and installed something else behind my back. Gee, now I know why!"
I will never forget last spring, the day my daughters and I were leaving for New Orleans. He came over to say goodbye and have a drink and I was wearing this very pretty lace dress which I'd had many compliments on. He looked me up and down and said, "Is that what you're wearing?" And then he said, "I like some of your other dresses better." Well, you would think he had said I had three boobs, I was so upset. I actualy burst into tears!
Now I think, Who gives a crap what anyone thinks of my dress? I remember that book, "Men Who Love Bitches," which was the first book I read when I thought it was ME that was the problem. It talked about this: If a man says he doesn't like what you're wearing, say: "Ok. Next time I wear it I'll make sure I don't see you that day!"
Scoop, it will all come back to you. It helps me to think about myself at a certain time of my life, before all of this, when I was in grad school, discovering the subjects I like, doing the things I like because I didn't have kids yet, spending time where I liked, and dressing MY way and decorating MY own apartment. I kind of channel that girl, you know? It does help a bit.
I'm sure your boat is going to be fantastic. If you aren't sure of yourself yet, just have a friend with good taste that you like help maybe right now, with the basics, until you get your footing back.
The thing my narc would do
July 30, 2010 - 3:56am — ScoopThe thing my narc would do is say "im only teasing you " when i would get upset , he would bellitle the abuse and there for make me out to be the one not being able to take the "joke " ...lord he was an insidious POS .
I made a start yesterday by buying a cusion , i took the advice and just felt what i liked , i used my eyes and heart , there was no one else present in my head laughing at me. The cusion is pistachio ,while and pale pink which i think is the theam for the living room ... bring it on !
I just posted something
August 1, 2010 - 7:41am — awayfromhimI just posted something about the lack of a sense of humor on a different post. At first, it's difficult to just choose what you like because the darn N is still circulating in your head. The things I did or said while with the N were completely based on what I thought his reaction would be. I was never looking for niceties when I thought of what he would do, I was making sure I avoided his nastiness. I did not want to rock the boat and it encompassed everything I did.
When I was two weeks away from leaving the marital home I went shopping. I chose colorful paints, furniture, and artwork. ALL of it he never would have liked, but these things and the colors were me and my home feels like MY home.
Good luck with the boat. I am quite sure when you are finished you will be skipping around with a big smile on just loving what you've done.
Funny how they have no sense
July 30, 2010 - 12:13pm — better offFunny how they have no sense of humor at all when it's directed AT THEM.
Did you ever see Sling Blade, and Dwight Yoakam played the mean boyfriend who would say horrible things and then go, "I's just kiddin'." Then in the end, Carl put an axe in his head. Best.Movie.Ever.
sling blade
August 1, 2010 - 11:31pm — aceoneladyYeap my favorite movie.....Dwight Yoakam got it coming....
"You're not supposed to make fun of Mr. T"
July 30, 2010 - 6:37pm — Susan32No, I don't mean Mr. T of "I pity the fool" (tho that phrase applies SO WELL to Ns/Ps)
During the first year of our "relationship",my ex-Psychopath professor wanted me to be the "enforcer" and make sure students didn't mock him behind his back. Which meant he got mocked EVEN MORE. All of the professors were mocked--but my ex-P was the target of the crudest ones involving masturbation and homosexuality. And this wasn't a homophobic group.
"They have no sense of humor when it's directed AT THEM"-Wow. In the first year with the ex-P, I did confront him. I said "you don't want me to mock you behind your back, why do you mock me behind mine?" It turns out he was saying nasty things about me not only to the other students in my freshman lab class (of which he was the teacher) but the other professors... and they (the professors) did NOT like that.
I told my ex-P "I know I get made fun of behind my back, but I'm not paranoid about it."
My ex-P was EXTREMELY paranoid. He must live in constant paranoia in regards to students. He's afraid of them mocking them;he gets new supply every autumn... and when they graduate every summer, they're going to talk about him behind his back! A teacher who's afraid of his students--shouldn't he look for another line of work???
"Run away!"-Monty Python and the Holy Grail
What makes you happy? I've
July 30, 2010 - 2:03am — almostlydiaWhat makes you happy? I've been designing spaces for people for more than 25 years and it is always a matter of what makes them happy. I surround myself with what makes me happy and that is all that matters. I am comfortable, I love it and I am happy as a clam. What else matters?
But if it's you goal to impress, hire a professional. God knows we need the business.
I agree....
August 3, 2010 - 1:13pm — happydaysaheadGotta do what makes YOU happy. My N would always complain about my decorating, but you know what ?? When any of my friends are doing any type of remodeling, they call ME to help with the furnishings !! One of my college degrees is in Design (my other is in psychology--go figure). And something else, it's MY house that I am decorating and the lazy ass N was living here rent/expense free, so as far as I was concerned, SCREW HIM !! When he helps pay the bills then maybe he could have a say !! And I have seen how he did things at his Ex's home ( his marital home that he had ALL the say in decorating) and YEAH, I don't think so buddy !! Red and green are fine for Christmas but not an everyday living room--WHATEVER !!
Don't ever second guess your tastes, decisions, NOTHING !! They have caused us to doubt everything. Just another part of us we need to get back !!
I'm sorry, that last remark
July 31, 2010 - 10:00pm — almostlydiaI'm sorry, that last remark was just a very late night joke because we do need the business. But I know exactly what you mean. He chose the area that he could attack successfully and did so. Mine couldn't attack me in that place because I was way to confident in my taste and they were so superior to his he didn't have a chance. But he did find other areas, my body, my age, what all the drinking because of him was doing to my skin etc... he would just make these small gestures or comment during sex as to 'what areas I should be working out more' when I took my clothes off. So I quit taking my clothes off in front of him from that point on. This came after I had dropped 3 sizes to a unnatural size for me -less than a 4- from all the stress of dealing with his 'secret life'. My face was drawn in and aged looking and all my bones were sticking out. So when I began to put some weight back on and fill my face out again, he began to make his subtle but deathly comments that made me completely self conscientious about myself.
He couldn't get me on the taste department but he could kill me on being comfortable with my body. Ironically it was because of him that I was doing so much damage to myself physically.
My original post is still what I would advise - surround yourself in the things that you love and fu*k anyone else's opinion. You're the one that lives there. You will be happy with the things you love.
almost lydia
August 1, 2010 - 11:38pm — aceoneladyMine ex N always attacked my physical side,specially my Best points....and he hated when we were for example doing groceries and somebody made a comment about how nice i was looking he would say óh please don't tell her that ,now she will never get off her high horse....and walked away,would sit in the car in the parking lot and would give me the silent treatment.....
Almostlydia big love xx
August 1, 2010 - 5:45am — ScoopMine never made comments about my body or face , he would attak my "emotional issues " which he had caused but he never saw that he would say "I am trying to help you with your problems " but would never say what my problems where .he is such a looser .
So im going for pale green ,pink and white for the living area . Im the bedroom its duck egg blue and white ,im off to laura ashley to get the curtian fabric today , the kitchen im still not sure about the units are very dark brown so need to be painted to lighten them up and i will need new tiles for the fire place and the units .Narrow boats seemed to be kited out in lots of dark wood but im painting it all out white .I have seen where people have done this and it looks amazing .Its going french country to the extreem , its prob not what i would do with my house but i figgered a narrow boat you can go to the extreem ! imagin my little cat asleep but the stove in the winter .. im so excited .. xx
Good for you !!
August 3, 2010 - 1:15pm — happydaysaheadLaura Ashley ROCKS by the way !! :) Your ideas sound awesome !!
And this was suppose to be
August 2, 2010 - 12:16am — almostlydiaAnd this was suppose to be the 'love of our life'? Amazing isn't it. The colors sound wonderful... personally i loved Laura Ashley from many many years ago. I still have all these huge catalogs. But as far as I can tell, she is almost nonexistent in America now. Cheers to you. It's so exciting to have plans even with the bouts of sadness they get us thru. I can not describe what a relief it is to not have that constant awful subtle or blatant judging. There is never any peace in it. I am finding such a relief in just being me again. I look forward to the day of hearing the same from so many here that I think about daily in the struggle I knew so well. Not that it isn't still a struggle for me but so much more manageable now. Thanks to all of you. You have and continue to make such a difference in my strength everyday.
A sidenote: in the texts that have been coming in lately, the KeN is so sure I'm seeing someone else and it's killing him. Keeps eluding to what happened on june 3rd for some reason and 'just tell me truth' is that when you slept with someone else, blah blah, blah. He had said that he heard all about me being with someone else etc... Which just proves he knows nothing at all. I have been with no one at all and on June 3rd I went out of town to see my old college roommate who had just lost her husband. But am I going to let him believe his stories - you bet your sweet ass I am.:)
I think it's super important
July 29, 2010 - 5:30pm — better offI think it's super important to realize that he would have criticized your choices NO MATTER WHAT YOU CHOSE. It had nothing to do with what you chose. It was just an abuse and control tactic.
If you picked black, he'd say white, and vice versa. For one thing, THEY are the ones who don't have a personality or a style or taste. They simply absorb other people's.
So you could have picked ANY dress in the store, any duvet, anything at all, and he'd criticize it to hurt you. Their criticism has no meaning. Just like their compliments.
never agree
August 1, 2010 - 1:51pm — Usedi relized after a while, if he would say do you like such and such, if i said no, he said i love it , if i said yes he said he hated it, so i began saying i didnt like so, when i realy did, and then saying i did like so anso when realy i didnt ,so in away we ended up on the same page lol, funny thing tho, when i was drawing away from him,he went the other way, when i said one day ,i didnt like a movie star he realy liked, he said no i dont like him anymore b/c i so respect your judgement, vomit ,vomit.good luck with your narrow boat scoop, my cousion had one i realy loved it, and biegn on the water, if i had ever told n that, he would of hated water i suppose, EVEN THO HE THOUGHT HE COULD WALK ON IT, lol
used
August 1, 2010 - 4:51pm — Scoop"he would hate water i suppose ,EVEN THO HE THOUGHT HE COULD WALK ON IT" just spilt my tea tha was so funny ..... funny how in the hover they love everything of ours , i agree pass me the sick bucket , mine use to become the pitcure of compliance when he wanted somthing , he would even change his voise to this "pleasing "tone ...lol yuck yuck yuck .
I wonder now if he ever knew how oblivious he was , even at the time when he was being all nice i was rolling my eyes at him , but somehow it use to work on me , i think i was just greatful the abuse had stopped for a day or two .
One thought keeps comming back to me and it "why did i stay with him for so long ".. i dont feel ashamed because i remember at the time screaming at my self that he is sick , im just baffled that it took me so long to go,i guess i just have a high pain threash hold , and a strong believe i could change him through love .
Lack of criticism
July 29, 2010 - 7:50pm — Susan32My ex-P CONSTANTLY criticized how I couldn't "manage my feelings",the way I ate, my friends, my family, my religion... but there was ONE thing he NEVER criticized.
He'd be in personal attack mode... but the one thing he didn't criticize was my writing. Very weird.
Could be seen as withholding/flattery/stonewalling, wouldn't it?
I did the exact same thing!!
July 29, 2010 - 5:22pm — BriseisI did the exact same thing!! I would go into such a complete and utter DITHER. My taste and choices were systematically crushed out of existence, it was too much work to have an actual SELF.
I go through fits and spurts, still (three years later!!). I just have literally forced myself to choose. Forced. Headlong into it. Telling myself that my reluctance and fear is a bunch of bullshit and I got rid of HIM and don't need to rent free space to his nonsense in my head.
Don't give it any "power". Like Lisa describes with managing obsessive thoughts, counteract them with indifference, and "Oh, shut the hell up" or whatever works for you. It won't stop them altogether, at first. YOu have to work new grooves into your brain that override your brainwashing/conditioning. It's not easy work, but it's very doable. Just effort and self talk, "undoing" a bunch of total bullshit and getting on with your life :)
Your new boat is symbolic of your new life. It is a perfect place to practise a new way of thinking.
The stuff I choose now is so much more MINE than what I chose before the exNarc ever came in and fcked with my life. I have a new appreciation for what is "mine" and "my choice". Like I appreciate it more. Hope that makes sense! It's worth the work, I promise :)
Taste and Control
July 29, 2010 - 11:53am — Susan32My ex-P was ALWAYS critiquing my food/portion size. He'd give weirded out looks and say things like "you're eating THAT?" He always mocked what I had for lunch when we went out to lunch together... but he never really told me what his tastes were. He'd tell me I'd get fat if my meals were certain portion sizes. He had ways of making me lose my appetite... then command me "eat your food."
Nothing could please him. He'd always bash the concerts/lectures we went to together. Couldn't find anything positive about them.
He claimed he liked jazz... but he never really talked about music.
It's not so much that his tastes governed my own, but his lack of taste(?) left me baffled. It's like telling someone "I don't like your route" but then not giving them a map to show them the alternative.
In the past 8 years, I realize how fortunate I am that I can make choices on my own. I no longer have to fear disapproval. I can eat weird things like raw vegan food at Cafe Gratitude and ENJOY it. I can savor exotic food at home without the fear that I'll be drubbed on it. I no longer have that running commentary... thank God!
Susan32: Eat your food!
July 30, 2010 - 8:40am — helldwellerLOL. What weirdos. Mine always did that, too. Criticize what I ordered and then force me to eat it. He would actualy feed it to me, not romantically, but as if I were a child. Even when I'd say, I'm trying not to eat this or that or not drinking for awhile, or not smoking, he would force me to.
Yes, total lack of taste is right on. I'd ask him what he wanted for dinner and he never cared. Didn't particularlly like anything, be it food or music or clothes or cars or artists or writers. Except he loved "To Kill a Mockingbird," because I think he fancied himself as Atticus. As if! He had a framed letter from Harper Lee on his piano, who had written back to him after he sent a fan letter. Ugh.
And he liked movies with Renee Russo and Sandra Bullock, because of them. So weird. Like a high school girl or worse: only liked movies because the stars were dreamy. So weird!
Weirdos
August 3, 2010 - 11:31am — Susan32My ex-P was judging my tastes on account of his father being diabetic (yes, it's true) He was acting as if he had REAL concern for me. He feigned real concern when he didn't have any at all.
It was all about control.
My ex-P baffled me because we really couldn't talk about anything. He knew lots about me, but he wanted to remain enigmatic. He was also a Gwyneth Paltrow fan... for the same reasons as a high school girl(!!!)
Helldwellar
August 1, 2010 - 5:11pm — ScoopI remember a time when my narc put on some music that i loved and i closed my eyes and realy enjoyed it . When i opened my eyes he was staring at me and at the time i thought he was studying me and my expression so he could "bank it " for future refrence so he could wheele out that expression himself when he was trying to pretend he apreciate music .eeewwww .My narc had no taste in anything or if he did he would never let me know about it, even food , i guess that way he couldnt be critisized and he could maintain his god like status .What must it be like to have no sence of self ... it always blows my mind .
Creepy... I remember during
August 1, 2010 - 10:59pm — better offCreepy...
I remember during the luring phase, he was trying to impress me with fantasizing about a dream date in Paris, with fancy food, blah blah, and I said Oh, I'd be happy enough with a cheeseburger in a blues bar. Oh, he loved blues too! :-) (Can I puke over the emoticon?)
Funny how later I can never remember him referencing or listening to any kind of music like that, ever. He liked stuff like Elton John and Supertramp. Which I found a bit gay, lol.
betteroff
August 2, 2010 - 1:45am — helldwellerElton John and Supertramp. Check, check!
betteroff
August 2, 2010 - 1:45am — helldwellerElton John and Supertramp. Check, check!
this says it all Susan
July 29, 2010 - 11:57am — wholeagain>>It's like telling someone "I don't like your route" but then not giving them a map to show them the alternative.<<
YES! Story of my life. All I'd get was that patronizing look. Way to keep me on my toes I guess.
Patronizing
August 1, 2010 - 11:53pm — Susan32I'd ask my ex-P about his tastes. It got nowhere, other than "The Simpsons" and the Terminator. My junior year was spent mostly gabbing about movies seen over the weekend. He claimed to like art films, such as "Shakespeare in Love" (he ended up teaching an unpopular class on the sonnets the following year, because apparently the main activity was wine drinking instead of discussion) The one I believe however is "The Spanish Prisoner"... a David Mamet film about con games. I think he also liked "House of Games",another Mamet movie about con artists. How fitting.
My ex-P reliably shut down whenever I asked him about himself. He was like a computer going into screen saver mode. Except screen savers are more interesting. If I showed interest in HIS interests (like Wittgenstein),he'd get incredibly dismissive.
It's a shame when you can't hold a coherent philosophical dialogue with a philosopher... or a wannabe one in this case.
Congrats
July 29, 2010 - 11:07am — wholeagainon your boat! And the fun part is making it the way you want it, or should be. I've had the same problem, anything I'd look at would be evaluated not on what I liked but what the exN might like. Because if he didn't there was all the passive aggression or covert disapproval.
For a while it just took me a little longer to choose things is all, and that improved over time. I had to be patient and listen--first his opinion came up, then I mentally scratched over that with a big black pen and started over.
It also helped to write down lists of things I like or don't like, from food to clothes to hairstyles to movies to books. And another list of what I don't like.
I moved into my own place earlier this year and had a ball setting it up, once I got that voice out of my head. I don't give a s**t if something isn't cool, isn't fashionable, isn't "the best". I have an eclectic mix of things I like and I'm the only one who has to like it.
Hang in there, soon enough you'll be happily adorning your place with things you love.
Same here
July 29, 2010 - 11:24am — Amy" anything I'd look at would be evaluated not on what I liked but what the exN might like."
Same here! Every article of clothing, down to the underwear! It's crazy - but it is part of the gaslighting process I think. The like to make us dependent on them for everything. :(
Scoop
July 29, 2010 - 6:03am — NancyMCongratulations on the boat, that is such a positive act for moving on,and I can sense your joy in it from here. As for being indecisive, it is something I always struggled with, but learned to manage it by always going with how something feels to me. Using this approach really does work for me and makes me much more decisive.
it's so strange
August 1, 2010 - 6:48am — alma25My exN was doing the same things. When I was eating something, he was telling me: you'll eat all that? I didn't know you can eat such a big portion. How can you drink that?
You come a cropper all the time, honey.
Your nails are strange.
How can you watch that?
When I was angry because of his comments, he looked satisfied and was telling me: it was just a joke. I'm joking. If you want me to stop, just tell me.It's only my sense of humor.When I wasn't angry, he was asking: why aren't you mad. I like so much when you get mad.
When I went NC one of the most horrible things was that I didn't even know who I am and what I like. sometimes I still don't know it. I was listening to the radio station which he liked. He was claiming to likejazz and rock but he didn't know the most famous jazz and rock songs. One day I went to the bookstore to choose a book for me and I bought a book of his favourite author. I even started reading it but I stopped completely terrified.
There is also one thing. I don't know if it hapenned to you or not. When I met him I loved many things: I was keen on cinema, film festivals, dance classes and he took it from me.He knew nothing about it and as I loved him I wanted to show him the things I liked.I remember that I wanted to go with him to the dance classes in couples. He went on his own.Without me.When I told him how I felt because of that, he was furious.
It's been a year since I've seen him the last time and I still can't start my dance classes.