Lisa E. Scott

Are all Narcissists also Sociopaths?

Are all Narcissists also Sociopaths?
Posted Wed, 03/10/2010 - 17:02

I was talking about ex-N today with one of his ex-friends who also got burnt by him. He believes ex-N is definitely a sociopath and sent me this link. Ex-N has every single one of the characteristics.. this is HIM.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

In the early 1800's these people were labeled "Moral Insanity"!

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the food chain............

Fri, 03/12/2010 - 11:41 — narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)

-----ALL Psychopaths/Sociopaths are NARCISSISTS...but not Narcs are Psychopaths/Sociopaths.....but ALL Narcs,Psychopaths and Sociopaths are ASSHOLES....
My blog

LOL well put!!

Fri, 03/12/2010 - 22:22 — wallaby

Yes perhaps there should be an AXIS 3 personality disorders category where all three could be grouped under the "A**hole Personality Disorders"

there already is

Sat, 03/13/2010 - 01:04 — Barbara

CLUSTER B:
Histrionic
Narcissist
Antisocial (Sociopath & Psychopathy)
Borderline

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

baddream

Wed, 03/10/2010 - 19:07 — Barbara

NO!

this is EXACTLY why I beg people to please please troll around ALL the pages of the message board as this has been discussed many many many time before.... sigh

All Socio/Psychopaths are Narcissists
NOT all Narcissists are Sociopaths...
the spectrum only runs in ONE DIRECTION
the more exploitative they are - the closer to sociopathy they go.

a sociopath is usually much less socially adept and has problems with people than a psychopath.

it's an even thinner line than the one between Ns and Ps for sure.

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/06/22/narcissist-or-sociopath-whats...

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/06/09/strange-narcissistic-psychopa...

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/05/06/60-million-persons-u-s-negati...

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/08/06/mary-jo-buttafuocos-new-book-...

the moral insanity moniker has all been discussed NUMEROUS times too.

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

Not so clear.-Barbara

Thu, 03/11/2010 - 21:34 — baddream

I am sorry if I did not notice this had been posted before, it did not come to my attention.. The original post was 39 weeks ago and I did not have recollection of it.

Clearly this is a topic that is still of interest. If we have had this discussion before, does that mean there is not anything to add to it and it should be considered a closed matter and not put forward again? Perhaps there are new members of the forum who did not see the original discussion, or have something new to add to it.

I am asking, so I will know in the future, not to post anything that is related to anything posted before.

I did go on to read the links you attached to your post, and do not agree with your statement that it goes only one way.. Specifically the statement

"All Socio/Psychopaths are Narcissists"

The reason I disagree with this statement comes from Steve Becker's article that you attached which attempts to distinguish the two, specifically:

"The less validating you are, the less worth you have for the narcissist.

The less exploitable you are, the less worth you have for the sociopath."

There are many traits that narcissists and sociopaths have in common which is why in some cases it is difficult to make a distinction. There is one key difference-- narcissists require their victims to validate them, and sociopaths are often in it only to exploit their victims (for the game). Neither narcissists or sociopaths feel empathy for others, but narcissists feel their own pain (and emptiness) deeply, whereas sociopaths feel nothing.

When you stated that all sociopaths are narcissists you implied that they need the same supply-driven validation and this is not true. They only require that their victim is available for exploitation. This is not the same as NS (narcissistic supply)

I would think the reverse statement "narcissists are sociopaths" is closer to the truth--- it would be impossible to use a victim for constant supply-validation, without (either directly or indirectly) exploiting them at he same time.

Sorry for the ramble (sigh....!), but I felt this was an interesting and relevant subject.

bad to worse

Fri, 03/12/2010 - 13:47 — Barbara

first - if you had looked around the message board more deeply - you would have seen this post.

second - that's not a statement - that's fact from the American Psychiatric Association. Cluster Bs only run ONE WAY. Narcissists can get worse and became Socio or Psychopaths... dragging their Narcissistic traits with them. Additionally Socio or Psychopaths have all the traits of a Narcissist PLUS PLUS PLUS the things that move them up that scale.

Socio/ Psychopaths can NOT back track to be just Narcissists. Ever. Once you have moved up that scale, you've changed not just your behavior but the pathways in your brain. Science has proven this. Clearly.

The spectrum goes one way. bad to worse

the problem lies in that there are clinicians who are loathe to diagnose Socio- or Psychopathy and just call them Narcissists. There are victims who refuse to see that their Narcissist/ abuser is much worse than they thought (I was one of those people for a long time). Then you have clinicians who believe Narcissists are just "ambulatory Socio- or Psychopaths."

Any way you slice it there is no way to "deal" with these turds other than putting as much distance between you & them.

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

Barbara can you clarify

Wed, 03/10/2010 - 23:43 — wallaby

the sentence above where you wrote:

a sociopath is usually much less socially adept and has problems with people than a psychopath.

Maybe you meant narcissist in one of these spots? If so which one?

wallaby

Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:07 — Barbara

I was not talking about Narcissists...
the cluster B line is VERY fine

Narcissists are IMMATURE
Sociopaths are socially "bizarre"

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

thanks

Thu, 03/11/2010 - 22:10 — wallaby

I get it - we had three diagnoses in discussion -Sociopaths Psychopaths and N's. In my mind I was alternating between sociopath and psychopath thinking they were the same. From my days way back in clinical psych I did not recall a diagnosis on Psychopath on Axis 2. I know what you mean though having worked with Axis 2 diagnoses in therapy (training in psych clinics). It is hard to know where the lines between them are - especially the charming snakes we discuss on this site. They all get blurry. I distinctly remember, though, the drama of Borderline PD and can "feel" that in someone the way I can pick up classic narcissism now. The narcissists always felt brittle and laughably haughty to me, with the borderlines I knew I would be getting calls in the middle of the night, suicide attempts, cutting etc.

and Psychopaths?

Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:13 — The Girlfriend ...

...are dangerous and may have a history of violence (or not)...but perhaps even more dangerous because they are narcissists AND psycho's...AND can be socially adept and appear as a "Prince Charming" Mr. Great Guy, without any RED Flags initially...(they may not stand out in society as 'weird'...but instead appear like 'the boy next door' sort...with a possible positive role in a community...or even the workplace, etc. (think Ted Bundy, ETC.)

Is this right Barbara?

girlfriend

Thu, 03/11/2010 - 08:19 — Barbara

exactly.

For instance - Bundy, Gacy, Rader, Peterson - blended right in: Psychopaths

Dahmer, for example? Sociopath - socially retarded... a strange loner.

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

Add My EX Psycho BF's Name to the List

Thu, 03/11/2010 - 10:26 — The Girlfriend ...

He hasn't killed anyone...yet...but I recognize an element about him deep within his psyche that makes him capable of it.

I think if he didn't value his 'image' as 'Prince Charming' so much...he could be a rapist and serial killer...It is scary to say..but I have seen moments and flashes of that level of rage & ability to kill in him.

And the only thing that makes him 'stand out' in a crown...is how friendly, social, professional, charming, tall and attractive he is.

The BEST disguise of all for a psychopath.

Wish I could post his picture here...it would blow everyone away...because he is very good-looking and appears so stable (looks like a model from GQ magazine, tall dark and handsome...devastatingly CHARMING, and cultivates a 'ladies man image'...little would anyone EVER know that he has been arrested for violence, and even recieved a letter from the Minister of Justice deeming him an aggressive/violent and unstable personality with potential danger to society as well as a threat to the health and wellfare of his own little boys.! (I have a copy of that letter! :-)

My ex psycho

Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:52 — rache

RAGES at the drop of a hat

Red Zone Rage

Sat, 03/13/2010 - 12:38 — ForeverLearning

Mine too - he self admittedly goes into a "Red Zone" where he feels no pain and can't hear or see anything else but his target of rage. Like a raging bull or bear or whatever.