All those Rule Books

Kelly

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1 year 2 weeks

All those Rule Books

Posted March 7, 2010 - 1:31am

Just have to rant a little about them. I've read just about all of them and the only thing I agree with is setting boundaries. Aside from that, I adamantly believe these authors to be propagators of the misogynistic ideology. They are perpetrating the lie that woman must succumb to abuse in order to catch a man!

Hide your feelings, your too emotional, men don't like emotional women. They want a strong, independent woman who doesn't "need" him. Oh, but, you should show you "need" him by letting him fix things for you. Don't be too nice to him, but make sure you compliment him . . . IT"S MADNESS!!!

Women read this crap at their most vulnerable moments too. Just after a breakup! You want to search through all the rule books to find out how YOU messed up! What did I do wrong, because it couldn't possibly have been him. He was so into me at the beginning - - - what oh what did I do wrong?

Then you read the book and your thinking, "oh, I should'ov done this or that. Of course he lost interest."

OR, women pay ridiculous money to go to workshops to have someone explain to them "the rules."

ENOUGH! These people should be truly ashamed of themselves! It not your fault - - - IT'S HIM!!!!! He was a JERK and you are better off without him!!

There, I've said it. Whew!

Rache

March 8, 2010 - 12:55pm — seancunningham

I'm 54, and have been around the block a few times ;). I try to see the good in people. But sometimes we're wrong. It was pure luck that I saw where my situation with him was going. Looking at his past behaviour, was a good indicator. I kept hearing what he told me at the beginning.

Once a cheater....Always a cheater. A leopard never changes his spots. His words stuck in my head, and luckily I saw it unfolding, just like the one he got out of.

Narcs hate routine relationships. They hate to be faithful, it bores them. I was deemed boring and he needed to be free of that. I'll take boring anytime!!

Sean

March 8, 2010 - 5:26pm — rache

I'll take boring too.The old psychopath i married had been married 4-5 times ,and,claimed they all didnt want sex hardly-2-3 times a week,but,they had ALL cheated on him.Very conflicting stories and he has ED big-time.

Manchild

March 7, 2010 - 11:19pm — seancunningham

Are most men narcissists? I tend to think so. Gay or straight, I find that most guys run at the thought of a long term situation. I was totally self sufficient before this mess. Most of my relationships were like this one....DYSFUNCTIONAL. Seems as if I'm a magnet for this B.S. How does one break the cycle and find loyalty?

I find that most men will disappoint, can't keep it zipped, and will succumb to any temptation. I'm not perfect, but I mate for life. I was told last week that monogamy is dead, and that open relationships are the key to a lasting relationship. Maybe that's the ticket. Don't ask -Don't tell and you won't get hurt. I have a friend that says "as long as he comes home, I'm happy." I couldn't live my life that way. To me, that's playing dumb. Putting my head in the sand was never my style. What are your thoughts?

sean

March 8, 2010 - 12:43pm — rache

I have a son who says he is gay(32 years old)He is the only other gay guy-other than you,who,i KNOW is committed type.He is a gourmet chef(cooks better than me)cleans house like a pro,and,lives with a psychotic a..hole! The guy cheated on him and put my son at risk,but,thank GOD i have prayed for him(constantly) and i know God is protecting him and tarrying with him.I have read that most gay men are NOT monogamous and i tend to agree...but,there are straight men who are philandering cheating bastards-they put their wives at risk for STDS! My daughter who is a nurse sees AIDS all the time in married men who do not tell their wives and by law the nurses and doctors cannot say anything either according to her.....its so sad,sick,demented the way these freaks do others.

commitment

March 8, 2010 - 7:50pm — Barbara (not verified)

I have always had numerous gay friends...

when I was in my 20s they all seemed to flitting from man to man

now, those I know between 45-58 are all the committed type. Some in long term relationships. In fact I have seen more commitment in the gay community than I have with us heteros it seems.

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

sean

March 7, 2010 - 11:41pm — Barbara (not verified)

No. Most men are emotionally immature to some extent but do not have NPD

However, the NPD population is 75-80% male.

Sexual Narcs tend to be "ANYSEXUALs" - ie they are not gay, straight or bi... they will screw anything they can when they can as often as they can. Since we are objects to them they don't care - any warm orifice will do. Sick aren't they?

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

Barbara

March 9, 2010 - 8:27am — BlueMoon

I agree...emotional immaturity is evident in many men, but not NPD. I have two sons who are emotionally immature for their ages, but in no way developing NPD traits.

I want them to be loyal, kind partners, and I talk about this with them constantly. I think it is important for mothers to instill this in their sons.

They will screw anything...

March 8, 2010 - 4:56pm — quietude (not verified)

Even chickens! (snort!)

sean

March 7, 2010 - 11:41pm — Barbara (not verified)

No. Most men are emotionally immature to some extent but do not have NPD

However, the NPD population is 75-80% male.

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

That Is A Philosophical Question

March 8, 2010 - 9:17am — ForeverLearning

So hard to answer these type questions. No one knows the answers for sure.

Sort of, do you see the glass half full or half empty?

And what is your view of mankind (humankind) as a whole? Overall, positive or negative?

Does good triumph over evil in the end?

Does karma exist?

Maybe it's more like boundaries - if I set some and enforce them, well then maybe I will begin to get the treatment I insist on, for myself.

The old saying is that you teach people how to treat you.

That old "monogamy is dead" could be somewhat true, amongst the 'clubbing' type 20-something crowd! Who are hellbent on sowing their wild oats non-stop whilest trying to find themselves.

But certainly not true for everyone. I think most non-personality disordered people desire a loving, loyal monogamous relationship.

And, if one's self esteem is strong enough, one will stick to their guns and insist on it.... (monogamy). Of course when you're being 'gaslighted' and lied to, you don't know which way is up and what the whole truth is, regarding whether or not you're actually in a monogamous relationship!

Honesty and Integrity beats "The Rules"

March 7, 2010 - 7:20pm — ForeverLearning

I have to agree with you, the silliness which are known as "The Rules" are too much like playing head games.

It seems to me that the Golden Rules work best in all situations -

treat others as you would want to be treated,

be yourself,

and honesty and integrity are the best path in life.

These 'rule books' are for the birds. Just confusing head game playing.

Excellent observations, NarcMagnet!

Oh I know Narcmagnet!!

March 7, 2010 - 2:11am — Jessika (not verified)

I think those type of works do more harm than good.

I spoke to one therapist (not in a patient/ doctor relationship- she is someone I know personally).

She had the audacity to tell me that my relationship ending has more to do with me and my behavior than him. Told me that I must have been too eager to please him. That I didn't remain a challenge and that men get bored and so it was inevitable. She blamed me in all kinds of ways.... from telling me I am searching for my daddy in men and my ex felt my neediness (Ughhhh whatever) to you probably didn't give him what he needed (whatever THAT means).

I even told her that my ex is a narc so how in the hell is HIS abuse MY fault. She stuck with her frame of thinking- You Jessika, should have behaved differently and that's why you couldn't keep a powerful successful man". UGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH

So yes, Narcmagnet- reading crap that discuss how the woman needs to do XYZ and putting the blame on her is just maddening!

Jessika

just awful

March 7, 2010 - 3:08am — Barbara (not verified)

the minute someone mentions CODEPENDENCE or it's somehow MY FAULT TOO? I tell people RUN, do not walk in the OTHER DIRECTION.

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/04/blaming-victim-of-narcissism.html

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/03/nonsense-check-on-codependence.html

narcnarcwhosthere and I used to belong to a couple forums for abuse that preached that sh*t up down and sideways and if you didn't swallow it wholesale you got ABUSED BY THE MEMBERS THERE UNTIL YOU DID. Hello???

Very early in this journey, when I was first married to exNH I believed the codependence bull.... I was in my late 20s and still trying to figure out what was wrong with my mother (she was a Narc btw) and I thought since all my relationships & most of my friendships got f-d up... it MUST be me. I spent years trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.

One therapist, who I saw for over 3 years, got me to write some looong letters to my fiance from high school, a SERIOUS Narc who slept with anyone & everyone - lied to me - and whose family, ex girlfriend and even the pieces of crap on the board at the small town high school I went to caused me untold pain, pregnancy, suicidal thoughts and (I now realize) PTSD because of him. Well, she went and mailed all those letters to him... and when he didn't respond - she told me to write more and she read, analyzed and mailed those too!

What happened? He, his wife and a mutual friend of his & mine wrote and told me to NEVER CONTACT THEM AGAIN. They went to a high school reunion - WITH my letters - and convinced people who knew me & my sibling I was certifiable and stalking him (he lives on the other side of the damn country! LOL and cyberstalking wasn't yet an issue in 1990-1) He also went to my parents!!!! Can you imagine how my NarcMother just LAPPED THIS ALL UP??? This same therapist had me reading R. Burney's B.S. like it was gospel.

I was DEEPLY re-traumatized by all this and my exNH didn't help matters and made fun of me. Then, this SAME therapist forced me into a group with a bunch of other women and used me a catalyst and sat there while in the last session I ever attended - these girls screamed and threatened me because I was too "maternal looking" and they wanted to vent their anger at their mothers on me. The therapist did NOTHING... I left and NEVER went back knowing I'd wasted 3 years of my life and she'd only screwed it up more.

Anyway... one of the writers of the Rules? Is NOW DIVORCED. That book was so full of nonsense. Almost as BAD as the horrible "RULES OF ATTRACTION" B.S./ Cult crap that was pushed by Oprah (ugh) a few years back.

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

I am almost traumatized by your life story

March 7, 2010 - 7:15pm — ForeverLearning

OK that sounds a little ridiculous but that's how I feel sometimes when I read about your life Barbara.

I am so glad you have come out the other end of the tunnel of pain that was your life for so many years, - so wise, so wonderful, and so willing to selflessly share your knowledge and experience with others. In a firm but loving, no-nonsense manner.

God bless you!

sorry

March 7, 2010 - 10:52pm — Barbara (not verified)

my life has been one big 'party'... a lot of people think I should just GET OVER IT!

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

That therapist

March 7, 2010 - 3:21am — wallaby (not verified)

you saw should be "taken out to the shed". God how awful when damaged people are traumatized and screwed up even more by someone who is a mental health professional. Being a psychologist myself (got a Ph.D in clinical psych with focus on assessment)but do not use it as couldn't handle being in that field) I got to see first hand how messed up most therapists are! So few of them have any common sense whatsoever. And they play out their issues with their clients.

That's why I enjoy your comments so much - so clear and common sensical! You call a spade a freaking spade!

wallaby

March 7, 2010 - 3:35am — Barbara (not verified)

this therapists' day job was as a GUIDANCE COUNSELOR FOR A HIGH SCHOOL IN THE BRONX. I reported her to the Board of Education when I was able to catch my breath from the devastation.

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

Barbara

March 7, 2010 - 3:55am — wallaby (not verified)

I shudder to think of all that good advice she gave those high school kids.

Finding a good one

March 7, 2010 - 1:39pm — Kelly

You see Barbara! This is exactly what I'm afraid of with therapists. They all have their own agenda and they can especially f@$% you up and confuse you even more than you already were! I'm exactly that age you were with all of the same confusion!

It's like teachers. I would say that most of the teachers I had were only teaching to either A) stroke their own ego's and preach their own B.S. B) Have a steady paycheck with summers off C) They are big kids who couldn't make it in the "real world" and wanted to stay in school for the rest of their professional lives.

Very few of my teachers became teachers with a genuine desire to help their students. It's like finding a needle in a haystack. I'm convinced that I can't do math because my math teachers were awful (or overworked - - too many students to pay attention to.)

I'm straightening out my health insurance now and I want to find a new therapist, but I'm going to really be careful in selecting one this time. I have a feeling a lot of them are preaching "The Rules" and playing the game.

BTW . . I had to vent about this one because a gf of mine just had a scumbag break up with her. She's a few years older than I am with extremely low self esteem. Much much worse than I had been and from what she has said to me, she's getting really bad advice from her mother (who seems to be the one to have driven her self esteem way down in the first place.) She's a very sweet girl, but she's so down on herself and is constantly getting kicked by people she trusts only to apologize to them and ask to be kicked again AND SHE KNOWS THIS!!!!

I can't solve her problems and I'm not her therapist, so I told her that I support her, she can talk to me and what she is feeling is normal. I suggested she check out this site and I sent her a few articles. Instead, she tells me her internet is spotty, she decided to read these rule books and her mother says she should apologize to the ah#$#$% and she should have felt lucky that he was treating her like such a princess! (princess treatment=sweet talk and a few nice dinners.)

Oh, and the apology why? Because she called him out on a lie early on and refused to drop it. He lied to her about where he was and she was smart enough to figure it out. She should have dropped him right there, instead she wants to apologize to him for being accusatory!

narcmagnet

March 7, 2010 - 4:15pm — Barbara (not verified)

YOU STILL NEED A THERAPIST OR YOU WILL NOT GET BETTER!

I went through a handful before I found a good one. Make an appt and start going.
http://ptsd.factsforhealth.org/help/searchclinic1.asp

my NarcMother told me to put up with it too. she was desperate to marry me off - and horrified when I left exNH. Those rules and looking the other way - are bullsh*t

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

Looking The Other Way - A Recipe For Heartbreak

March 7, 2010 - 7:23pm — ForeverLearning

Ignoring dishonesty in a relationship is just asking for more dishonesty to be served up to you. I agree - to look the other way and ignore, is to be very stupid and 'aid and abet' in your own abuse.

Rules

March 7, 2010 - 1:15pm — Nothanx

Funny thing about "The Rules" is that I followed them to the T with my narc! I had just gone through a divorce (not a narc) from a 14 year marriage, and I felt totally clueless about dating. I was not a "skilled dater" before I got married, when I was in my 20', and now in my late 30's I really felt out of the dating loop. I bought a copy of the "Rules", and I never called him first, I waited a day before I got back to him, I turned down offers for dates if he had not asked me by Wednesday night, etc...! THE RULES do not apply with a narc, because they will play along and be patient. They love a challenge more than a non-narc. On a side note, I do agree with the idea that you should be busy with your own life, and not engulf yourself in a man's interests and schedule. That is not something you can fake! You are either busy, healthy, happy, interesting, or you are not, and no amount of pretending will make it true. You need your own interesting life to complement your partner's life. That is what I am trying to figure out at this time in my life: WHAT THE HECK DO I LIKE?

Right on!

March 7, 2010 - 1:48pm — Kelly

That's where I'm at as well! What do I need (that a man can't give me.) Turns out, I don't really need a man for much of anything, so I'm done making myself crazy trying to "win a man." Lol!

So far, this is what I've come up with:
1) I need to be healthy
2) I need to be happy

Yoga, journal writing, focusing on my career, going to the gym, eating well, hanging out with my friends, looking my best, reading good books, taking nice vacations, watching films and great television - - CLARITY AT LAST!

Yes, clarity at last! I am

March 7, 2010 - 10:30pm — narcsurvivor

Yes, clarity at last! I am trying to do the same things. Just take care of myself. Figure out what I used to like to do that I slowly stopped doing as the N sucked all my energy away. And just live life in a healthier and happier way...still finding the way though.

A Manchild

March 7, 2010 - 1:47pm — seancunningham

Their rules seemed to be made up as they go along. When I broke up with mine, he was furious. I was subjected to a whole litany of bull that made no sense. I was co-dependent, I depended on him for my happiness, I had no life of my own until he came along...yada, yada, yada. Was it me who was bringing gifts, unannounced visits, sending emails saying how excited he was that I was in his life, or my personal favourite: You make me feel so very safe. BLAH!!!!

In translation, you found me out, I hate you, and you are now on my enemy list. How does one pacify a manchild?

Excellent Translation

March 7, 2010 - 7:07pm — ForeverLearning

I love it, you nailed it, you are one smart cookie Sean. I am so glad you are here to share your upbeat wit and insight with us, I love it.

On how to pacify a manchild

March 7, 2010 - 8:11pm — Amazed

Get away. head for the hills..they are not ready for a relationship nor will they ever be.

They are in a constant state of flux. All they want is supply and for your attention, other than that they are not there for you

pacifying a manchild

March 7, 2010 - 10:54pm — Barbara (not verified)

find a way to stick his own "d*ck" in his own mouth...
self-love will keep him occupied forever...

sorry MY BAD - ROFLMAO

~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims

10% Of Men Can Do That

March 7, 2010 - 11:26pm — ForeverLearning

Just FYI - that is a true statistic.

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