What is the difference in the Socialpath,VS.Psychopath?

What is the difference in the Socialpath,VS.Psychopath?
cynthia's picture

What is the difference in the Socialpath,VS.Psychopath?

THE SPELLING.

MsVulcan500's picture

LOL!!!

LOL!!!

girlfriday's picture

That STARE

That all sounds very much like my ex NS/P (The "Pradators Among Us" post)

After everything started to fall apart and I started researching WTF happened, I came across information about the "psychopathic stare." It really hit me because my ex had this bizarre stare I had never experienced before.
I read that this stare is predatory and how it "melts and freezes" you at the same time. Mine would do this to me when he was trying to gain control of me. First on webcam. Then on our first date (man, was it intense!) Then after I tried to break up with him. And it always worked for him, too.
I even liked it because I mistook it for sexual energy, but now I see it was about control and predation. Like a wild cat about to pounce. Or like Dracula...

Has anyone else here experienced that?

angelgal's picture

Oh, the eyes and the intense stare...

Fireguy had this fixated stare! Like nothing I've ever seen before. When we were together, he would always look at me so intensely with his dark brown eyes...it use to make me feel uneasy at times...but also mesmerize me to a point of making me want to fall at his feet.

In the bedroom, his eyes would get real big...I thought it was the strangest thing...it was like he was someone else at times...it almost frightened me. He would tell me how he liked to be in "control". When I think about his stare/look, its very eerie for me!!!!!

Amazed's picture

The stare, yes girlfriday

That is a perfect way to put it, their stare, piercing, both freezes, and melts you...very true, and accurate description. Yes I have experienced this, and they use it, as you say, as predatory, and to manipulate you.

There is something in the subconscious I think that makes someone feel this way around them..

It is so good to have him out of my life, you have no idea.

narcnarcwhosthere's picture

The Snake Eyes

I'm very familiar with this one. The Psychopath's eyes would turn completey black when he was in a raging attack. And he had the snake stare. He could stare and glare at me for ten minutes without ever blinking. I started watching him, and he seldome blinked his eyes at all. Ever. They're not human.

baddream's picture

The Strange Eye Thing

I remember early on my ex N's eyes would change color during intimate moments. They would turn blue, and he had hazel-brown eyes. It was crazy and when they would turn like that I would melt. He controlled me.

Truly reptilian! He was a lizard!

Amazed's picture

Wow,,the change of eye color

My exN also used to tell me "my eyes change color" and he was right,,they would change on the day, and what he was wearing, but mostly on his mood,,,eerire!!!

rache's picture

My dads eyes

and this is no lie or joke=turned red -pupils when he got mad.They used to call him jim(RAGER)-true story,people that knew him called him jim rager.

itreallyisabouthim's picture

Oh YES. That was the FIRST

Oh YES. That was the FIRST thing I EVER noticed about my STBX. The stare.

I've seen it on a few other men before - slightly different varieties on the theme but with the same effect - and I think they were N's too. One, a long time ago, was a P. I know that now. At the time I just knew my life was perhaps in danger and I had to get away.

cynthia's picture

yes

all the time I got that stare, its a stare of control they CANT control, they probably dont even know they are doing it and how strange it looks, mine did it when he was excited before and during sex so what does that tell ya.... Watch out for anyone staring like that at you from now on, not a good sign and I doubt they have an eye disorder, lol

Barbara's picture

the "Reptilian Gaze"

it's been discussed on the boards here many many times.

The pathological’s stare has its own allure and may be effective in the early luring stages. Many women, before they knew he was a pathological, thought it was sexy. The stare has its own connection to trance induction. Even trained hypnotists say “Stare into my eyes.”

The early parts of the luring and honeymoon stage are a great time for eye gazing with the pathological. There really is something to the pathological’s stare. Dr. Reid Melloy, in his book, 'Violent Attachments' says that women and men have noted the pathological’s unusual and unnerving stare. He referred to the stare as a “relentless gaze that seems to preclude the pathological’s destruction of his victim or target.”

It’s also often referred to as The Reptilian Gaze because of its primitive predatory look.

Dr. Robert Hare, author of 'Without Conscience' and primary researcher on pathology referred to the pathological’s gaze as “intense eye contact and piercing eyes” and even suggested that people avoid having consistent eye contact with them. Other writers refer to it as a “laser beam stare” or an “empty hypnotic look.” Our women labeled the gaze, “intense,” “sensual,” “disturbing” and intrusive.”

Women have also described his look as invasive, intimidating… looking them up and down like an animal. Women mistook it for a sexual once-over when in all likelihood it was more predatory than that.

Eye gazing as trance induction means that the words that follow the induction are seared in her mind with much more meaning and lasting power. Eye to eye locks, in which the pathological strokes her face and leads her into a slight trance state saying, “You are the most giving woman… you have given me what no one else has given. I know that you will always give to me this way and that we will be together forever. I know you would never hurt me, or leave me, or lie to me, or cheat…” are the hypnotic handcuffs that keep her locked to him.

Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

Kelly's picture

"You are so beautiful"

That is what he would say when he gave me the "stare."

When I think about it now, it gives me chills

girlfriday's picture

wow!

Wow! There it is. Thank you, Barbara.

My own therapist, after I told her about the stare, suggested that there was some mind control going on. I did not know that that existed in this type of situation.
I now know for certain there was deliberate mind-control happening too. He used several techniques. All very effective...But that's another post.

rache's picture

I'd love

To know how to do that stare! LOL.

Barbara's picture

rache

we normals can't

its just NATURAL for them... not "do-able"

by the way - there's a picture of me on Lisa's Facebook in her photos... of me & Lisa. I couldn't do that stare for my life.

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

rache's picture

OUH,i want to see you!

Whats the link?

Barbara's picture

link

http://www.facebook.com/lisaes#!/lisaes?v=photos

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

rache's picture

Barbara!

You are very pretty and you have gorgeous big teddy bear brown eyes!and your skin is flawless.There are plenty of GOOD guys out there who'd love to have someone like you.Do not close your heart off.....we aren't washed up yet kiddo.

Barbara's picture

rache

My eyes are gold/hazel but thanks...

I no longer date - I have issues because of my complex PTSD that caused me to make a decision. Besides I have 2 children that mean everything to me to raise.

But hey... more for you!

yes I am very particular about my skin... I inherited it from my Nana. thank you.

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

rache's picture

eyes

i know my weird eyes do not photograph swell-they are green,blue green,brown/gold mix.circles of each.i have a problem with decision making too.what do you use on your skin-products etc?Its lovely.I'm talking to a couple of guys close to home but nothing serious-friends first,lol....i got two girls left at home=14,7.So,i'm really taking it slow now.

Barbara's picture

rache

I wash my face with soap & water every day. Morning & evening. I moisturize immediately after. Always.

Currently I am addicted to Olay Regenerist MicroSculpting Cream. Every day. This is my latest secret weapon.

About 3 times a week I use Clinique Redness Solutions Cream to help with my Rosacea.

Since I don't work any more I don't wear makeup much - but when I do:

Foundation: Clarins
Blush: Tarte Cheek Stain
Eyeliner: Sephora Brand (its very soft, easy to apply)
Mascara: Almay or Lancome
Lipstick: Benefit

and I stick to very neutral earth tones since I am over 50 now. And I don't wear a lot of eyeshadow...

and I drink at least 8 glasses of water day to keep hydrated.

NO sun in the summer. I garden but I use SPF 50 when I am outside.

There's my secret... LOL

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

rache's picture

skincare

It sure works for you-your skin is beautiful!

Barbara's picture

rache

thanks

only thing on me that is... ;)

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

Barbara's picture

Predators Among Us

by Kathy Krajco

The jury is still out: not all narcissists may be psychopaths, but all psychopaths are definitely narcissists. In view of the disappearing distinctions between NPD and ASPD in the literature, you should find this article in Psychology Today, Predators, by Dr. Robert Hare helpful. It is so valuable that I quote extensively from it (adding a couple inline comments, followed by my initials - KK), but I urge you to read the whole article because of the examples it gives:

There is a class of individuals who have been around forever and who are found in every race, culture, society and walk of life. Everybody has met these people, been deceived and manipulated by them, and forced to live with or repair the damage they have wrought. These often charming—but always deadly—individuals have a clinical name: psychopaths. Their hallmark is a stunning lack of conscience; their game is self-gratification at the other person's expense.

...

Not surprisingly, many psychopaths are criminals, but many others manage to remain out of prison, using their charm and chameleon-like coloration to cut a wide swathe through society, leaving a wake of ruined lives behind them.

...

To put it simply, if we can't spot them we are doomed to be their victims, both as individuals and as a society.

...

Psychopaths are often voluble and verbally facile. They can be amusing and entertaining conversationalists, ready with a clever comeback, and are able to tell unlikely but convincing stories that cast themselves in a good light. They can be very effective in presenting themselves well and are often very likable and charming.

...

Psychopaths have a narcissistic and grossly inflated view of their own self-worth and importance, a truly astounding egocentricity and sense of entitlement, and see themselves as the center of the universe, justified in living according to their own rules.

...

Psychopaths show a stunning lack of concern for the effects their actions have on others, no matter how devastating these might be.

...

Many of the characteristics displayed by psychopaths are closely associated with a profound lack of empathy and inability to construct a mental and emotional "facsimile" of another person. They seem completely unable to "get into the skin" of others, except in a purely intellectual sense.

They are completely indifferent to the rights and suffering of family and strangers alike. If they do maintain ties, it is only because they see family members as possessions.

...

With their powers of imagination in gear and beamed on themselves, psychopaths appear amazingly unfazed by the possibility—or even by the certainty—of being found out. When caught in a lie or challenged with the truth, they seldom appear perplexed or embarrassed—they simply change their stories or attempt to rework the facts so they appear to be consistent with the lie. The result is a series of contradictory statements and a thoroughly confused listener.

And psychopaths seem proud of their ability to lie.

...

Psychopaths seem to suffer a kind of emotional poverty that limits the range and depth of their feelings. At times they appear to be cold and unemotional while nevertheless being prone to dramatic, shallow, and short-lived displays of feeling. Careful observers are left with the impression they are play-acting and little is going on below the surface. [Yup - KK]

...

Psychopaths are unlikely to spend much time weighing the pros and cons of a course of action or considering the possible consequences. "I did it because I felt like it," is a common response. These impulsive acts often result from an aim that plays a central role in most of the psychopath's behavior: to achieve immediate satisfaction, pleasure, or relief.

...

Besides being impulsive, psychopaths are highly reactive to perceived insults or slights. Most of us have powerful inhibitory controls over our behavior; even if we would like to respond aggressively we are usually able to "keep the lid on." In psychopaths, these inhibitory controls are weak, and the slightest provocation is sufficient to overcome them.

As a result, psychopaths are short-tempered or hotheaded and tend to respond to frustration, failure, discipline, and criticism with sudden violence, threats or verbal abuse. But their outbursts, extreme as they may be, are often short-lived, and they quickly act as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened.

...

Although psychopaths have a "hair trigger," their aggressive displays are "cold"; they lack the intense arousal experienced when other individuals lose their temper. [I bet that's why they can turn it off like a switch if you surprise them by getting right back in their face instead of backing down -- KK]

...

Psychopaths have an ongoing and excessive need for excitement—they long to live in the fast lane or "on the edge," where the action is. [Reminds me of Hitler unable to keep himself from provoking war with Great Britain, while terrified of the risks at the same time - obviously tempting fate for nothing but excitement at Munich! - KK]

...

Obligations and commitments mean nothing to psychopaths. Their good intentions—"I'll never cheat on you again"—are promises written on the wind.

Horrendous credit histories, for example, reveal the lightly taken debt, the loan shrugged off, the empty pledge to contribute to a child's support. Their performance on the job is erratic, with frequent absences, misuse of company resources, violations of company policy, and general untrustworthiness. They do not honor formal or implied commitments to people, organizations, or principles.

Psychopaths are not deterred by the possibility that their actions mean hardship or risk for others.

...

But not all psychopaths end up in jail. Many of the things they do escape detection or prosecution, or are on "the shady side of the law." For them, antisocial behavior may consist of phony stock promotions, questionable business practices, spouse or child abuse, and so forth. Many others do things that, though not necessarily illegal, are nevertheless unethical, immoral, or harmful to others: philandering or cheating on a spouse to name a few.

The most important part of this article is the last part, the "survival guide":

Know what you are dealing with. This sounds easy but in fact can be very difficult. All the reading in the world cannot immunize you from the devastating effects of psychopaths. Everyone, including the experts, can be taken in, conned, and left bewildered by them. A good psychopath can play a concerto on anyone's heart strings.

Try not to be influenced by "props." It is not easy to get beyond the winning smile, the captivating body language, the fast talk of the typical psychopath, all of which blind us to his or her real intentions. Many people find it difficult to deal with the intense, "predatory state" of the psychopath. The fixated stare, is more a prelude to self-gratification and the exercise of power rather than simple interest or empathic caring.

Don't wear blinders. Enter new relationships with your eyes wide open. Like tile rest of us, most psychopathic conartists and "love-thieves" initially hide their dark side by putting their "best foot forward." Cracks may soon begin to appear in the mask they wear, but once trapped in their web, it will be difficult to escape financially and emotionally unscathed.

Keep your guard up in high-risk situations. Some situations are tailor-made for psychopaths: singles bars, ship cruises, online dating, foreign airports, etc. In each case, the potential victim is lonely, looking for a good time, excitement, or companionship, and there will usually be someone willing to oblige, for a hidden price.

Know yourself. Psychopaths are skilled at detecting and ruthlessly exploiting your weak spots. Your best defense is to understand what these spots are, and to be extremely wary of anyone who zeroes in on them.

Unfortunately, even the most careful precautions are no guarantee that you will be safe from a determined psychopath. In such cases, all you can do is try to exert some sort of damage control. This is not easy but some suggestions may be of help:

Obtain professional advice. Make sure the clinician you consult is familiar with the literature on psychopathy and has had experience in dealing with psychopaths.

DON'T BLAME YOURSELF. Whatever the reasons for being involved with a psychopath, it is important that you not accept blame for his or her attitudes and behavior. Psychopaths play by the same rules—their rules—with everyone.

Be aware of who the victim is. Psychopaths often give the impression that it is they who are suffering and that the victims are to blame for their misery. Don't waste your sympathy on them.

Recognize that you are not alone. Most psychopaths have lots of victims. It is certain that a psychopath who is causing you grief is also causing grief to others.

Be careful about power struggles. Keep in mind that psychopaths have a strong need for psychological and physical control over others. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't stand up for your rights, but it will probably be difficult to do so without risking serious emotional or physical trauma.

Set firm ground rules. Although power struggles with a psychopath are risky you may be able to set up some clear rules—both for yourself and for the psychopath—to make your life easier and begin the difficult transition from victim to a person looking out for yourself.

Don't expect dramatic changes. To a large extent, the personality of psychopaths is "carved in stone." There is little likelihood that anything you do will produce fundamental, sustained changes in how they see themselves or others.

Cut your losses. Most victims of psychopaths end up feeling confused and hopeless, and convinced that they are largely to blame for the problem. The more you give in the more you will be taken advantage of by the psychopath's insatiable appetite for power and control.

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

Kelly's picture

Without Conscience

Almost through reading this. . . such a good book. Mistake bringing it in to work today. It sparked a debate and I think it outed a sociopathic coworker. Or maybe the guy just has some other PDI, but he got so offended at the idea that there are ways to diagnose psychopaths. He refused to believe it. I dropped the subject immediately. I was just reading and suddenly four coworkers were debating with me about the existence of sociopaths!

Kelly's picture

oh and . . .

From what I understand so far, there is no difference. It's the same thing.

Psychopath=Sociopath

The only thing is, there is a social stigma associated with the word psychopath. People automatically think of serial killers, which is not the case. Most psychopaths do not kill - not because they couldn't - - they could, but chose not to because it does not interest them.

Sociopath is a word that was created more recently that actually defines the same disorder.

For a while psychologists thought there was a difference, but I think they now classify it as the same disorder.

Carolyn's picture

A sociopath tends not to do

A sociopath tends not to do crimes of violence and is just a lesser version of a psychopath. It is a bit like a civil case vs a criminal case. The sociopath has no conscience and will steal, swindle, fake he is someone else, be an imposter, marry a lot of women at the same time. They don't have any capacity for guilt or any conscience. The psychopath takes all of this to another level. He will murder, torture, serial kill, and do violence to women and children of a deadly sort. The movie "the Great Imposter" with Tony Curtis is a good description of a sociopath. It is about a man who posed as different people, a doctor, a navy officer, and it was all false. he went to jail and got into the imposter business as soon as he got out. he actually did an operation when he was posing as a doctor. The Hanibal Lector movies are a good example of psychopaths. I think one of these was "Silence of the lambs". A more recent movie than the "Great Imposter is "Catch Me if you Can" about Frank Abegnale who posed, in uniform, as an airlines pilot and stole and made airline paychecks. He started when he was only 16! he was caught, jailed but was so talented at check fraud the FBI put him to work for them.

All of these labels carry certain criteria for the diagnosis but they are not rigid and exclusive. It is possible that the person in question is a sociopath with traits that belong to other 'categories'. What ever he is exactly he is bad news and you need to get away. Both of these conditions are brain function problems and have no solution.

ForeverLearning's picture

Brain Function Problems With No Solution - Well Said

Right on the money - brain function problems with no known solution. Right to the point and right on the money.

Sinead's picture

Not a lot

In general, what I understand is that a sociopath has become the way they are due to events in their life, a psychopath is more the way they are due to biology. I think that is one point of view that has been expressed by Dr. Robert Hare. Some people use the terms interchangeably, some use sociopath for a psychopath as people confuse psychopath with psychotic.

The traits of both are very similar, although I would have thought a psychopath is more dangerous as at the extreme end they are serial killers and rapists, but I haven't read enough to say that for certain.

Hopefully I'll be corrected if I am wrong :)

rache's picture

It seem's

That it is the case with him=show's both traits.His N rages are so bad that he once threw a water bottle half full across the room in dentist office because they didn't get him in early enough,as,he got there early and demanded to be seen early.

Sinead's picture

Saying that though

I think I read something a while back saying that a psychopath hides the rages in public more and a sociopath doesn't, again I could be completely wrong, my ExP wouldn't really rage in public unless he was trying to get sacked from a job (to claim benefits by whatever false name he was using at the time), but he would be terribly violent behind closed doors to me.

rache's picture

Thats interesting

Mine definitely explodes at a moments notice(talk about eggshells!)

Barbara's picture

rache

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-psychopath-and-...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_a_narcissist_an...

Narcissism and Socio/Psychopathy exist on a continuum. Narcs are at the "lower level." The more they EXPLOIT and harm (EMOTIONALLY, PHYSICALLY, etc) the more up the scale to full blown socio/psychopathy they go

A Socio/Psychopath is ALWAYS ALSO a Narcissist
A Narcissist is NOT automatically a Socio/Psychopath

They can be a "Narcissistic Sociopath" but
they can NOT be a "Sociopathic Narcissist"

The line only moves one way. Bad to worse.

I'd say yours is a full blown sociopath; if I had to guess.

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

time_to_move_on's picture

question on rages...

I can't remember if I've asked this before.

Some of the posts I've seen and articles seem to suggest that narcs (and sociopaths) will back-down if you rage at them.

There is no way my ex would have done this, if I'd raised my voice, reacted to him, I know he would go beserk if we were in the same place. He'd usually threaten, shove, threaten to throw things at my head then run-off.

I'm pretty sure he had a personality disorder though, he fits the criteria as constantly put the focus on himself, blamed me for relationship breakdowns.. and did seriously injure someone once (supposedly in self-defense), as well as carry replica firearms when younger.. among other things.

Does he sound personality disordered? Just bit confused as he would not back down with me. I get angry at times but was too scared to raise my voice by the end.

agnesmurphy17's picture

Mine too

If I stood up against him & tried to draw boundry lines . . . it just got him going even more. A few times I flew into a rage after being provoked. But, this was just turned against me. With my N, there was no way to win. There was no setting limits to his bad behavior. Truly the meaning of a roller-coaster relationship. I was so traumatized because I was so out of control. Nothing made any sense any more. I had no ability to influence the progress of events. I was just caught in the vortex of his rages, manipulations, and tantrums. He controlled virtually every detail of our lives, & he conrolled me. And he did this without inflicting a beating. But I was physically afraid of him. Actually the threat of violence is very frightening. Always waiting, wondering if & when he's gonna attack. Also a lack of control. Trauma = loss of control.

Barbara's picture

time to move on

only SOMETIMES do they back down

some just ramp it up or turn your justifiable anger around on you.

While these guys follow a pattern there are millions of variations on the pattern

If he exploits without remorse, has no empathy and treats you like a THING rather than a person. HE'S got a PD

While I don't personally agree with everything here - this is a great list of characteristics of the Personality Disordered (DOES NOT have to have ALL to be PD!!!)
http://www.outofthefogsite.com/CommonBehaviors.html

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

Sinead's picture

Mine never backed down either

This is how I ended up in ICU, I fought back with words, then physically, I ended up beaten near to death, a lot of them don't back down as that would be seen as loosing and they just can't lose.

rache's picture

I agree!

Whew!Barbara, you are amazing girl.Thank God for you and this board.I am learning like a fiend.

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

Excellent Information

just wanted to bump it back up to read again.