Signs Your Narcissist is Cheating

Signs Your Narcissist is Cheating
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I was asked recently 'why' do I NEED to know the signs and to 'catch' my N BF in the act and I have contemplated this for a few days...I have caught my N BF before...I KNOW he cheats and lies and know that it is a common trait/behavior of a large number of narcissists, especially a somatic narcissist...

...but 'why' do I need to know with certainty, to have the 'evidence' to hand him so I can walk away????

One of the most important reason for me is to be able to trust MYSELF again. Not only do Narcisissits deny their bad behavior, but go to great lengths trying to convince you that YOU are the crazy, deficient, untrusting person. And sometimes we deny it to ourselves too. They will work VERY hard to convince us we 'are seeing things'...'that they did not cheat...and sometimes, because we need to believe them, as otherwise would hurt too much, we allow them to convince us they aren't cheating...

This robs us of even the ability to trust our own intincts and we learn not to listen to our 'gut feelings' or 6th sense that we are born with...in order not to rock the boat, or be blamed or abused.

I think one of the reasons, for me at least, is that my N BF has blamed me for his behaviors and the things he does for a long time. He also denies things, even when confronted with his lies and has only partially admitted to 'being a real bad boy' when there is some proof of his secret sex life....sometimes even when I ask him an innocent question not even related...such as 'How was your lunch today"?'...he acts like I am accusing him of something, and he will twist things around to somehow be my fault for 'not trusting HIM'...you guys pretty much all know the drill...as Narcs all twist things , lie, deny...do whatever it takes to cover their ways...whether it is in their serial cheating...etc.

So I guess I DO need some advice here about how to catch them cheating or how you found out about your N having another hidden secret life with OW? And what did he do when confronted?

This last Thursday night I stayed downtown at my apartment as I had been in a late meeting...and there was also a snow storm, so it was just more convenient. I called my N BF to let him know before he left his office. The next morning when I went home to our house where we live together there was an empty 'delicate wine glass' on the counter, not the kind he would ever use, and he NEVER has wine alone...only rarely drinks a beer with the 'guys'...he acted 'funny about me seeing it...and actually has been acting secretive again...but he is being more careful at hiding things...

I just want to restore and heal my own ability to trust my own instincts, I have had to squelch them for so long just living with him for the last 2 years (and being with him for 3)...I am tired of being told that the very things I SEE and KNOW in my heart...are not true. I'm tired not only of his ability to lie to me and hide his cheating...but also of my own ability to lie to myself.

What are some of the tale-tale signs your N did that gave him away? Did he deny cheating...even though you knew he was? Did he make promises to you to stop?...What did you do?

helldweller's picture

Signs he is cheating

That was a big one: when I came over and all of the photos of my daughters and I were gone. He said, "they must have fallen behind the dresser." ????????
I found them underneath everything in his underwear drawer. I thought about super gluing them to the wall.
I kept bringing photos over, in frames, in magnetic holders for the fridge, photos of him and my daughters, photos of our three kids together, photos of him and me. He would say, "Oh, those are great. Honey, I have NO problem putting these up. Thank you!" and the very next time I was over they would be gone. Every time. I also know now, sickeningly, that he stopped letting me be near his foster child because the child would innocently tell me about stuff they had done with other women. The first time it happened I said, "Narc, the first lesson in "Parenting for Assholes" is: if the baby is old enough to talk, don't bring him around your girlfriends." And he laughed. Yep. Laughed.

Lisa E. Scott's picture

Puhleaze!

He said, "they must have fallen behind the dresser." ????????

Give me a break. Do they really think we believe their bs?!$#!!

happydaysahead's picture

HAHAHA ......

Parenting for Assholes. Made me laugh. Thanks, I needed that !!

Narcd Out's picture

All Narc'd Out:) My exN's

All Narc'd Out:)

My exN's secretiveness would increase when he was "grooming" his next victim. Suddenly, he had to hide his cell phone. In hindsight, he would make comments or ask questions that were related to the OW, though I had no idea at the time (such as, "So you would never get a tattoo?" when OW had...."You should get a sundress, you would look awesome"....meaning some OW he'd hooked up with had one on).

The biggest predictor I learned was that he would slowly start criticizing me - everything about me. If it was a woman he didn't want a relationship with and was just planning on having sex with her - he would be overly nice and would start doing things for me. Otherwise, he was verbally abusive - and was preparing for the discard (but not until he had his next victim secured).

I, too, felt for the longest time I had to "prove" he was lying. He demanded proof as well. One of the things that struck me...if I was in a healthy relationship and brought up concerns that my partner was cheating, they would act genuinely concerned, would want to know why you felt that way and would do what they could to ease your fears. That is not the case with the Narcissist. They get defensive and really, could care less about why you feel that way. That is a HUGE RED FLAG.

Those gut feelings - those little hairs that stand up on your neck - those are god-given gifts and we have them for a reason. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT. The fact that he seems to non-chalant about the wine glass, alone, shows a utter lack of regard for your feelings and fears.

My ex-N lied right to my face, repeatedly, without even batting an eyelash. He would continue to deny even if I had "proof". You will NEVER get validation from a Narcissist - even AFTER the relationship has ended unless of course, there is something for THEM to gain from being honest. Honesty is something that use only when it benefits them; otherwise, it is just as easy and convenient for them to lie. You will NEVER get validation from a Narcissist - even AFTER the relationship has ended and you will drive yourself crazy trying to find cold, hard evidence. And when you do, it will not change WHAT they do or WHO they are. I know that is hard to hear but it is the truth.

LISTEN TO YOUR GUT - it's shouting at you for a reason.

helldweller's picture

The open relationship

is NOT what we had. This is the guy that went across the country for eight days and slept in bed with another woman and "our" foster child--and then lied to me about having cancer so I wouldn't keep seeing the new man in my life. God, how many times I TRIED to say, "Obviously you are seeing other people, so let's just agree to see other people!" No, no, no, no, no. He would not agree to ME seeing anyone else.

helldweller's picture

wholeagain, amy and others

I am so, so sorry you were debased by these demons. What kind of creatures are these? Being treated like crap by a man with a four-year-old's brain is one thing, but that whole sickening culture is another. I am so very sorry. You are beautiful, wonderful, good hearted women, and I hate them for doing that to you

helldweller's picture

Compartments

The best line was when I found out he went to visit another woman in California for a week and took "our" child with him. He said, "I had a right to lie because it's a private relationship. It has nothing to do with you."

When he moved into the new house, next door to his old building, his best friend came to pick him up for dinner. The narc WENT NEXT DOOR A FEW MINUTES BEFORE HIS FRIEND ARRIVED AND CAME OUT OF THE OLD BUILDING SO HIS BEST FRIEND WOULDN'T KNOW HE HAD MOVED!" The narc had been working on this house for FOUR YEARS and never mentioned it to his best friend, on purpose.

The day before he moved in, I asked him, "When do you think you'll move?" and he said, "Who knows?" The next morning the moving crew was there at 8am. I honestly think he was hoping I'd be gone and wouldn't know he had moved in NEXT DOOR TO ME BECAUSE IT WAS PRIVATE INFORMATION!

When he got his foster child, about SIX WEEKS LATER we went to his house for dinner and the narc went into the kitchen to make us drinks. After a few minutes, his best friend confusedly asked, "So is this your little boy?" because he had met my daughters many times before already. My mouth fell open and I asked, "You mean you don't know who this is?" The narc had not only NOT MENTIONED not having a foster child to his best friend, but had left it to ME to tell him the news.

When I was pregnant, I demanded that he discuss it with me. "What?" I asked him. "Is your own baby going to sleep in a crib in my kitchen while your foster child has his own BATHROOM in your house?" He was completely insane about my having a baby. He just kept denying I was pregnant. I think he honestly wanted one so badly, but the thought of someone KNOWING he had a relationship with a woman or that he'd had sex with me or THAT A CHILD WOULD LOOK LIKE HIM was so much a freak out impsosition on his personal space and secretive nature that he could. not. handle. it.

janine's picture

Does cheating get worse under stress?

There's something else I wanted to ask you. While the somatic narcissist is always keen on new supply,have you also noticed that he gets worse,when other things go wrong in his life?Like problems at work or a financial crisis. Meaning that when supply gets less in one area it must be stepped up in another?

Narcd Out's picture

Yes - worsen with stress

All Narc'd Out:)

WAY worse when under stress and/or when other things go wrong in their life. My experience with my exN was that he would start projecting like there was no tomorrow during those times and all the ugly traits he had that caused all the stress and crisis in his life, he suddenly tried to make all about me.

loveofmylife's picture

Ugly Traits

Yep, sickening isn't it? When things don't go according to their master plan in life, they get very, very ugly and start blaming those closest to them (us) for everything that went wrong! I have never been falsely accused of something in my life, but in the couple of times when things went bad with N, I was accused for all of it!!! Apparently I was plotting secretly for months to do these things to him...unbelievable when I would have practically chopped off a finger for him!

He somehow came up with these devious little conspiracy theories that involved me....but it really helped me see into his head, because I would never imagine someone doing such devious things....but apparantly since they can do such devious things it comes into the rhealm of possibiliites for them!

loveofmylife's picture

One more thought

I view it like a drug addict. When things get bad in their life, they just increase the drug usage....same thing with Ns....things get bad and they try to crank up the supply to "kill the pain".

wholeagain's picture

Definitely

Was always the case.

loveofmylife's picture

Yes,

The day after I turned him down at work and told him I no longer wanted to work together (we would communicate at least 20 times/day and see eachother, lunch together, laugh, talk hours/day)....the day after, he put a post up on match.com.

narcdx3's picture

Working together

Yeah the day I told mine no more he started a campaign to get rid of me. He turned all his little women against me(I was their supervisor) and now I'm without a job--even though they knew there was more than me and he was retaliating against me. Stupid me---it took this to see he was a womanizing pig!

janine's picture

Signs your narcissist is cheating

Reading through what others say about their open relationships I have to add,yeah,they still lie,no matter how tolerant you are. In strange ways. Example:He placed an ad in the local paper to find a woman for a three-some.I see him putting a letter into his pocket,when we go out.He asks me "Did you see today's paper,was the ad there?"Later I look at the letter,and it's a reply to that ad.
That chap kept lying to everyone,about everything,he got mixed up not remembering what he'd told people.Easy to see through,but what is the point? Some lies of course are to gain something,hide something,maybe even provoke some reaction from you to feel in control. Some,as the above,makes no sense at all. Or does it to their twisted minds make some sort of sense we fail to see? Do they even know any longer what is the truth,half-truth or a lie?

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

That's what I Mean, Helldweller! Exactly!

We learn to deny the signs to ourselves...and that combined with their lies about virtually everything big and small...really adds up to throwing us off the 'scent' (truth)Add in their 'childish behaviors' and acting out...all the manipulations they do to keep you from figuring out the truth about them...and voila!...They seem to have an advantage at keeping us from knowing what we are really dealing with...in all respects. I learned to turn the tables on my pathological BF...'Man about Town'...'Prince Charming'..who is really a lying/cheating TOAD!

When I would find out about little signs and clues...I learned to ask myself questions like this: Why would *I* send a man a text message that says "Where R U, Honey?"....HONEY??? Would 'friends' who txt 'friends' really be using terms of endearment? (we girls text each other this way, but another woman to a man?...he isn't '*Honey* to her unless he is MORE than a friend...or it's from his mother!)

It is with these very telling clues like this, coupled with the 'little lies' they tell us to distract us from 'knowing what we know'...that we learn to discount our own inner gut instinct.

You don't want to believe what you really know...and HE doesn't want you to believe what you KNOW either!

This all works VERY well for these SNAKES!

Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

helldweller's picture

Cheating

Gosh, I still don't know. There were women he lied to me about seeing, but claims they are old friends from law school. He gets texts saying, "Where are you honey?" and "I'm thinking about you" but claims they are just friends. He is so compartmentalized, cannot have two friends in the same room together, so maybe it's just that? Maybe he is just so obsessively compartmentalized he can't handle our life overlapping with his life with someone else? He is such a little boy and so secretive I still almost believe him. He lies about seeing guy friends of his, too, about what he had for lunch, about everything. So with me, it was impossible to tell. Maybe that was his M.O.: lie about everything to throw her off! Or maybe he's a lying, disgusting, cheating son of a bitch.

Your post reminds me: what must it be like to live in their world, with all of these lies to maintain, the phone and computers to protect, the stories to keep straight, etc etc?

loveofmylife's picture

Over-compartmentalizing

My N over-compartmentalizes too. And he uses the word "compartmentalize" like it is a virtue and he has always told me that he "specializes in boundaries". But this is not a virtue the way they do it. They do it because they have many, many secret lives where one woman cannot find out about the other, and they do it because they lie so much and they can't keep track of who they told what, so they can't risk people sharing stories.

A person of true virtue has no reason to compartmentalize because they live their life well and live their life as an open, honest book. There is nothing to hide....

I was going to start a new thread on compartmentalizing or "boundaries" as mine calls it - as I think I"m starting to get this better!

when I saw his emails, he got this very wierd look on his face and said "you invaded my personal RELATIONSHIPS!"

Ok, first of all, notice how he used the word relationshipS - when he told me he was in a committed relationship. And notice how he acted like we had no personal relationship, which is not what had been going on for the last 20 or so years. It was like I was a complete outsider to him.

The web of lies and deceit is amazing.

almostlydia's picture

that's exactly what I came

that's exactly what I came to see - they had to keep people separate because they had so many secret lives going on and he could never remember what he had told the other. I had two of his OW's ask me if he ever said things to me about things we had done or talked about that you had never done or heard before? I used to say all the time, 'think you got the wrong girl'. Eventually,I was so jaded I could just say sh*t like, 'must be an incredible amount of work to keep up with all those lies'. This has got to be a huge part of the reason that fear is there greatest emotion. Lying so much and being exposed.

I love that comment: The brain thinks, the heart feels, but the gut KNOWS! So so true. Listening to my gut is my new number one goal, right after keeping my boundaries!

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

What a Private Investigator Told Me

There often isn't a 'smoking gun'...but we KNOW instinctually when they are messing around. I had spoken with a private detective for a free consult, and he told me that the very FIRST sign and 'evidence' of a man cheating is that you have to ask that question in the first place "Is He Cheating?'

He said that nearly 100% of cases he takes...by the time someone finally consults an investigator...it nearly ALWAYS proves later that their gut instinct was right, and that their BF/husband was definitely cheating on them.

He also said that a cheater will nearly 100% of the time DENY, DENY, DENY...and then turn things around on their mate for 'not trusting them'...if this occurs...he said it is also a sure sign your mate is cheating. (a defensive behavioral sign like this is evidence, but not *proof*) He had a number of 'funny' stories about what some of these cheaters said when confronted red handed in the middle of the act! He said that even THEN...when a Cheater is butt-naked and caught actually 'doing the deed'...the will actually be denying what they are seen doing...while they struggle to get dressed!...and then get mad at their GF/wife for 'spying, or checking up on them'...

Also, there is a big difference between aman having a 'one time affair'...for which he feels remorse later...and does not repeat this behavior...and someone who 'serial cheats' and is always looking for validation via sexual encounters/affairs...the later is a sign that the person is NOT a 'Player, Romeo, Casanova...or just sowing his 'wild oats'...it is a sign of a man with a personality disorder and character flaw...things that cannot be cured...

Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

girlfriday's picture

good info

I once heard this:
The brain thinks, the heart feels, but the gut KNOWS.

My gut knew, despite DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL.
And he was so good at denying and gaslighting, that I used to say that even if I found him in bed naked with underaged twins, he'd deny what was going on, spin it somehow, and I'd probably believe his innocence. Ugh.

janine's picture

Signs your narcissist is cheating

The lies may seem like the worst part,because you cannot trust a liar and may stop trusting your instincts. I had a long relationship/affair with a narcissistic guy I wanted strictly on sexual terms (not that this pleased him). Having picked up from hints that his many former relationships had ended because of his affairs,I told him to go ahead long as he was discreet. Since I'm pretty new here maybe I should add that this was during a very bad phase of my life, I am not normally that shallow. Anyway, in this unusual arrangement, I have seen far more than many women here may just be guessing at. And there is absolutely no limit for a somatic narcissist,in numbers and variety, and it does not matter how open-minded you are sexually. The stuff they crave needs to get hotter the longer they live,because they have tried out just about everything.
It has nothing to do with you at all. Just another way to keep their precarious balance same as any success they need at work, with people,projects. Admittedly it is more painful to us than all others. As I watched that man hunting for prey I realised that it often is the phase of managing to get someone new into bed that provided the ego-boost. Afterwards he mostly seemed as discontent as usual. The actual bad part are not the lies nor the cheating,but that being so empty inside they are desperately needy and greedy. Such a person is not worth the huge health risk and suffering.

wholeagain's picture

Yep

My relationship was "open" for a while, at first by agreement then because he couldn't stop looking for supply. He had all kinds of arrangements, sometimes it wasn't as much about getting sex as getting a woman to admit she wanted it. He'd make blood pacts where he'd get the woman to agree to do whatever he said, and all sorts of stuff that's just embarrassing now. Mr Svengali, oh brother!

And as well, there seemed to be no limit. Always another mountain to climb.

Anyway, even when we had an open relationship he couldn't tell the truth. In my heart and gut I always knew when he was lying, always. He'd rub his nose or yawn when he wasn't telling the truth, and he'd give too much detail. If I pressed it, he'd pitch a fit to see if that would get me to back off. If that didn't work he got weary of my trust issues (it was my fault).

I can relate to wanting a big fat smoking gun, but even when I had it I barely acted and was easily sucked back in by his grand apologies and promises to change. So...I guess I'm saying that looking for that concrete proof may be just another way of putting off having to act.

girlfriday's picture

wholeagain

Hmmmm...I think we had the same N. I could have practically written everything you wrote. Not the "blood pacts" per se, but he LOVES to see how much of a puppet he can turn a gal into.
He would also rub his nose or sniff when lying. And give way too much detail. He would make up detailed stories on the spot that were completely fabricated.
And yes, the fit-pitching. And then it was my "trust issues" that I had to work on.
And even when you think they've finally come clean and you can deal with their ways and rules, they still lie. It's a way of life.
In my case, I could not rest until I got the smoking gun. I got it. Sadly, even when you have that smoking gun, sometimes it's still not enough to finally say, "Enough."

narcdx3's picture

Cheater

I divorced my N for cheating---I knew it for a long time in my soul but he denied it to the death. When I got the call saying your husband is messing with my wife I confronted him by saying, "is there anything you need to tell me, like who you've been doing" He went off and said there you go again your crazy. When I said her name he started begging like a big idiot. Uh not I think I need to get away from you for now. But 3 days later I was back on his porch like a lost dog. It makes me sick to think about it. So I finally go thru with the divorce only to hook back up 3 years later to find myself reliving the entire saga again. Secretive, never giving answers for where he was going, when he would be back, cell phone calls, texts and hiding the phone, he even slept with it in another room--slept on top of it. He had surgery and even took it back with him. Here I was saying well I don't have hard proof he's just got friends and he doesn't want to anger me blablabla. Due to my religion I wouldn't divorce except for adultery---finally I found him on facebook---he wasn't doing her on there but his talking sure was nasty and I said to myself--no way a man that aint giving it up at home for over a year is talking to a chick like this and not getting it somewhere. I still doubt myself in getting the divorce since I didn't catch him red handed. I mean he has 2 hands, a computer and an imagination--he could have took care of himself all that time right???

Amy's picture

Sounds familiar

Mine got me to go to swinger's clubs with him. We never swapped, but I did do things with other women in front of him - to turn him on. While he started out saying he didn't want another woman, he started asking me to bring home another girl so he could get us both to give him a BJ (I never did that though). He pushed for dirtier and dirtier sex. It was part of the reason I left him last February. We would go on a Saturday night about once a month, and I would be so hung over on Sunday I was vomiting. Drinking profusely was the only way I could cope with being there. And then we went more often - almost to the point of every weekend.

When we got back together this March, I told him NOT doing that anymore was a condition of the relationship. Every once in a while he said I was not "fun" anymore.

I began to suspect he was cheating - hiding his phone, sensitive when I asked what he did that day, etc. I too wanted a "smoking gun" but never got one.

I would be a fool to believe he didn't cheat just because I didn't have proof.

wholeagain's picture

Ugh, Amy

That was my story too. Those horrible parties! He met the founders of Fling/Tryst online, while he was no doubt trolling for whatever else. We had to go do a personal interview with them to make sure we were "cool" enough, and pretty enough, before we'd be granted a spot on their invite list.

Might I say, at those parties they usually police the men to make sure *they* behave, but somehow the rules don't apply to how women approach other women. I was pretty aggressively woman-handled a few times, did they ask permission before touching me? No way.

Those parties were scary as hell for me. I too drank way too much and just prayed for them to be over, and hoped that no one would take too much of an interest. Never did go to a Tryst party which sounded like it was some seriously hardcore stuff.

Anyway, no matter what rules we carefully agreed to beforehand, he invariably broke them. That was the story with our open relationship too. It's like *hello*, I'm giving you more freedom than any man I know has, and you still can't follow the rules? Sick.

That was part of the mindf**k about cheating--he could always point to the fact that we had an open relationship and it seemed like that made any line cross-able somehow. How could I get upset about the fact that he didn't use a condom when I was allowing him to go out and have sex with someone else anyway? Didn't I know that was part of the risk of that lifestyle? That messes with your brain.

Now I have pretty hard and fast rules. You talk inappropriately to a woman online, you're out. Anything beyond that, you're out so fast you won't know what happened. I know people make mistakes but I'm fresh out of understanding about that--every man I've ever been with has cheated on me and I won't go through that again.

Just the way it has to be for me.

Amy's picture

I am sorry

It is such a horrible situation. We never had an "open" relationship, but if someone is pushing you to participate in sex clubs, swinging, etc, they are definitely looking for some other satisfaction on the side.

I will NEVER be with a man who asks me to do anything like that again. It is a sensitive topic for me. It is unsafe and unhealthy. Don't get me wrong - I LOVE sex. But I don't have to compromise myself. Being with someone who only wants me is healthy and normal (everyone is tempted, but a normal person does not act on it).

I agree with the earlier poster who said a private investigator commented that if you even have to ask the question, he is probably cheating.

better off's picture

It's not only normal to want

It's not only normal to want only your mate (random thoughts and temptations aside), it's even MORE normal for a man NOT to want other men touching you. "Sharing" your mate with other men is not normal.

wholeagain's picture

I agree Better Off

I was so sucked into the myth I actually believed it was normal to have an open relationship, more normal than a traditional one. Now that I'm with someone who in fact *is* normal, I'm horrified by what I lived with. If new man said any of the things that exN did I'd be out the door so freakin' fast. I've at least learned that much.

And if he wanted to share me with other men, I'd be completely and utterly heartbroken.

whatever2009's picture

If he's breating he's

If he's breating he's cheating, or finding a way to cheat, or finding ways to have numerous sources of supply. He wont stop it EVER. I use to think I wasnt enough. I use to think if I only had sex with him more then he wont go anywhere.

He would actually tell me that, keeping the sperm out of a man is how to get them not to cheat. He use to say it will
build up in them and then they just look for somewhere to get it out. Nice eh!

I use to run circles trying to figure out, why I wasnt enought, what did I need to change. I found out NOTHING!

He's incapable and its a game to him. They dont hide things because they dont care if you find them or not. No one will tell a Narc how to behave, they do what they want when they want. The more I stayed and the more back and forth I did ruined me.

Im now numb. I can sleep with a guy and then never talk to him again and not care. I dont try and get close to
anyone cuz there is no point. Im too damaged. And im terrified of being hurt again.

GET OUT while you can, he will never change, and you cant make him!!!

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

You Are Right...They Will NEVER Change!

And there is nothing we can DO or BE that will make them NOT cheat. You can be beautiful, gorgeous and sexy as hell and give them all the sex they demand...you can be the BEST in bed he ever 'had'...and a perfect lady in public...you can cook, clean and bend over backwards...every which way till Sunday....makes NO difference! They will ALWAYS cheat. Most women never even have a clue about how often they cheat...how much and how many they have cheated with...

...the very worst part of their cheating, for me anyway...is his LIES...all his lying...

Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

Here's a REALLY Big Wake-up that He is Cheating

You can pretty much bet that IF your Narc/Psychopath BF or husband gets an email at his personal WORK address from a pretty young single woman, asking him to create a separate facebook using his 'work email address' and connect with her on her facebook so she can show him some of her latest personal pics...you can pretty much KNOW he has something going on...

...especially if he SAVES that email and forwards it to his 'hotmail' from his work email...so he can log on and connect with her on the home computer...when you are asleep...and when you find he has been searching google for every little bit of info on her that he can find..you got a cheater on your hands!!!! Oh JOY! Here we go again, what a predator he is...he is SO dishonest...

Forget it when he tries to tell you the email was sent from some 'client' that he doesn't really know...(yeah right buddy-boy!...like you save all the personal emails from your clients and check them all out on facebook and google...REALLY? You want me to believe you would do this if she had been 60, unattractive and overweight???...or would you have ignored an email from someone like that?...Yeah! thought so!...)

Trust your gut instinct girls...especially if this OW wants to connect with him on a new 'more private' facebook...and not use the one he already has that she already knows about(I know she knew he already had a facebook profile because she included a pic of him from his other profile in her email)

...When I looked up who she was, I found out that she does professional Make-up/Hair for Brides/Weddings, and Engagement photos....

I remember that I had found a water bottle and business card 3 months ago in the trunk of the car my BF & I share with some nice 'Bridal Beauty' Logo on it, that you don't buy at the store. He told me THEN that he had found it laying in the street next to the car one day like someone had just tossed it & littered...so he put it in the trunk to recycle the water bottle (with that company logo on it)...I bought that story THEN...until the email he got recently from her, and then I had peeked at her company website and saw pics of her logo and even some photos of these same water bottles that she passes out at 'Bridal Conventions' as a way to advertise...When I saw THAT...and remembered the water bottle in our trunk from a few months ago, along with his story about it from THEN, (it had seemed innocent at the time, then)...well, I was utterly speechless for about 20 minutes...just sat there numb when I saw those same water bottles on her website with her company logo...the SAME ones! And I realized he had lied to me 3 months ago...and had probably been seeing her since at least that long ago...

I 'innocently' made a little call to her company and left a very sweet message requesting to make an appointment and consultation to get my make-up and hair done for my engagement photos with my fiancee (and gave 'his name' :-)....and wondered "if she could please call me back to schedule a time for me to come in as I was just so excited that he finally popped the 'question'...since we have been living together for that last 3 1/2 years". I also sent a request to add HER to MY facebook...so she could see all the phtos of HIM & ME together...as I was 'so thrilled about our plans to get married and we have been looking for a house together'. I made sure to mention HIS name a couple of times in 2 very nice, polite, innocent emails too, along with a cute pic of us attached.

I knew that IF, by some chance, the email she had sent him at his work was some innocent mass mailing inviting him to see her pics on her facebook (as he tried to get me to believe...while he stammered and had a red face and acted 'caught'), along with others she had in her email address book...and she really didn't know him...then she would have cared less who we were (wouldn't have mattered what our names were, wouldn't ring a bell...wouldn't really know me or him...and she would have called back and made a consult appointment for my 'bridal beauty' hair & make-up consult as requested...coz that's what she does for a business...and making money and doing business would be the point...right???

Guess what,...I also knew that if she knew him personally, as I suspected she did (and that he was lying/cheating again, the yellow bellied SNAKE)...then when I mentioned his name, she would know he had been lying to HER too, and she would be pretty upset and mad at HIM...and she would NOT call me back or add me or reply to me...and if she didn't reply (or even have one of her other workers or receptionist call back)...it would prove she knew him all along! Right?

Guess which one happened??? THAT'S RIGHT! She never replied to my voicemail (left 2 very nice ones), nor to my facebook friend request (though she did look at my pics of me and him I am sure...and she would see I was a pretty blond too and that we look very happy)...and she never replied to the 2 very nice innocent emails either.

HE has been acting very strange and moody since then...almost sad and very quiet when he gets home from work since that day I sent those voicemails and emails to HER...yep! You can bet he got an earfull from HER! The BAST*RD!!!

So, there's my answer! And I never had to yell or get all upset or accuse or anything (no private detective necessary)...just a few 'nice little voicemails and emails was all it took' to mess up his 'good thing' on the side. Actually I suspect he was cultivating a relationship with HER as she is more like me...and someone who he might just try to replace me with...which is what these guys ALSO do. They usually NEVER leave a relationship...unless they have someone else waiting for them. By the time your BF/husband is D&Ding YOU and it feels like he is preparing to dump you...you can bet he already has another victim all lined up!

I HATE the stuff he does. This gal lives in another province...but travels here frequently for weddings. How convenient. I wonder if she even knew about me before now? Possibly it was a shock to HER too. Or maybe she DID know...and he told her I was a wicked B*tch or something else untrue...or that he was going to leave me...whatever...These guys often have OW in long distance relationships who don't know about one another...let alone the GF/wife he has at home.

This man has totally derailed my entre life in just about every way.

Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

hitandrun's picture

The Girlfriend...

You are brilliant!!!

I hope I NEVER have to use your tactics, but I am filing them away just in case : )

Yes, they do derail us in every way. Scary.

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

HA! Thanks HitandRun! I also just might send a follow up email..

with a copy of HER email that she sent to my Psycho BF 'Prince Charming' *copied & pasted* in it to let her know I had seen it...along with this message...

"Hmmmm. didn't get a reply from you after mentioning the name of my BF, well, now I have my answer...GOTCHA!!! Please do not keep sending emails to my BF's place of work inviting him to add you to his friends list so he can see your personal pictures, or for any other reason. And please note that this man is NOT the 'Prince Charming' he first appears to be. Take it from me...I live with the lying cheating selfish cheap TOAD...and it's been a wild ride. You don't want this one...believe me...and also check him out on 'womansavers.com/search a guy section by typing in his name....read what some of his OW have to say about him too."

I probably would never send her this type of email or any other email(but it is fun to think about all the things I would like to say to her)...unless she continues to actively persue him...in that case...if she wants another woman's man that badly...I might just wrap him up in gift wrap and ribbons and deliver him to her personally! She would deserve what she gets!...and good luck/good riddance to both of them.

BTW, I noted that some of the gals mentioned something about their Narcs/pathologicals insisting they participate in an 'open relationship'. I do not have an open relationship with my psycho BF... He is just a serial cheater. He thinks the world at large is his playground and that he is the greatest gift to all womankind. Lock your doors ladies! :-)

Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

I am SO Blown Away by How Good They are at Cheating/Lying

The OW who sent my NP BF the email to be on her *Facebook Friends list* (she keeps her profile hidden and on private so you cannot find it via a search...she only 'invites' certain people to link with her) so he could see all her recent pics of herself...NEVER wrote back to me or answered a voicemail to make an appointment with her or another hairdresser/cosmologist at her company. If she didn't know my BF...she would have just thought I was another potential client...and replied...or had her receptionist reply to make an appointment for a consult to get my make-up and hair done with her 'Bridal Beauty' business...right?...So am I right for figuring out her non-response to me is because she knows EXACTLY who I am...and has now figured out my BF was stringing her along and lying to HER too?

Anyway, just kinda wondering if I was drawing the right conclusions from all this.

Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

almostlydia's picture

It was my experience that

It was my experience that depending on the status of the relationship some OW's wanted to know everything and would call to find out, esp the ones that were scratching their heads in confusion, then some were so enamored that they would confront him and then believe everything he said, and another just didn't want any more to do with the fu*ked up situation at all.

So you'll have to wait it out and see what, if anything happens. Unfortunately this is the worst part - the curiosity and the waiting. Be careful not to play into his game of being the 'crazy ex gf'. Mine used that all the time and I played into it very easily in the beginning because he had made me crazy. What person doesn't go crazy when she finds out she's being cheated on? I swear you can never win for losing with these MF's.

almostlydia's picture

Somatic N or Sex Addict

Several years ago when I first started looking for answers as to how a person could have absolutely no concept of trust, just not get it at all, and could cheat so much when he was so absolute about not losing me, the first info I came up with was about sexual addiction. I read, read, read, and it all fit my life with him exactly. Eventually, I saw the word narcissist associated with sexual addiction and begin reading about that. But it wasn't until about 3 yrs later when I first found this site (recently) and listened to Lisa's radio show talking about somatic and cerebral N's did I even know that it was typical for an N. In all the reading I had done before there was never any mention of the somatic N.

Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering what IS the distinction between the two? Or is there one? I would swear mine was a sex addict because his entire focus in life, everyday, was lining up his next pursuit and making sure he had it in place. He used the same people over and over again but I think he was always mindfu*king them so it was always a challenge to get them to succumb time after time. When he was trying to keep his promises, he actually tried to use me to fill in for all the nights he would've been with them. That only worked for about 2 wks at most. What I learned about sex addicts is that the experience has to get more and more risque and eventually spirals out of control. Most often they eventually lose everything.

I'm just curious, did any of yours just seem to have to have it? Did their world revolve around the next pursuit? Mine wouldn't even go on long vacations because he couldn't be away from his pursuits that long. It was very similar to me going off for a week without my cigarettes- you know - that anticipated panic of withdrawal.

Maybe it's not important but I'd like to know if this was how anyone else's N acted as far as all their cheating.

wholeagain's picture

Yes yes and yes

Exactly my experience. ExN was heavily sex addicted (intrigue being his biggest rush). And I've wondered about the differences, but I think he was just both and that sexuality was the biggest manifestation of his narcissism. But if you think about it, there are usually plenty of other areas where their N-ness shows up.

He did go through recovery to some extent. When he went cold turkey it was awful, he was sick for a week.

The thing is, even though he was better...there were still leaks and I still couldn't trust him. So much horrible damage was done, I thought I could get over it but I couldn't.

He needed attention and admiration from pretty much everyone in one way or another. He loved male followers--that was ultimate dominance.

almostlydia's picture

wholeagain

Yes, there was no doubt about the N-ness elsewhere. However, having read so many stories here as to the verbal name calling and abuse, mine did very little of that. Certainly no more than I called him out of the insanity of the constant lying and betrayals. He would do all kind of 'little things' that, in his mind, was 'treating me right' if I could just ignore 'what he needed on the side'. Enough that I often wondered if I could have worked around the rest if the lying to betray didn't exist. But it did and it would never go away so there was no point in even considering it. And when thinking rationally, I knew he made me a much lesser person for all that I had to give up in order for everything to 'be about him'.

After what I have read here, I almost feel like I got off easy in comparison. Just the same, the suspicion and doubt and knowing that he had to cheat and would do so was unbearable. Knowing that he was lying to my face and setting me up for the next 'booty call' was gut wrenching. He would go completely aloof when in the throes of one of his pursuits as if he completely forgot who I was and what I was to him. It outraged me in THE worst way. Then the next morning all was back to 'normal' except it wasn't for me.

In the end it was the male followers that ultimately won out, for a lack of better words. There was definitely an underlying hate for women but there was also a definite homophobia. I wondered if he just 'hated' everyone and was out to dominate and have his will over everyone. I had never met a man in my life who demanded and needed blow jobs more than this man. I see it as quite common thread here amongst many of the exN's. I wonder if it was some ultimate form of domination in their minds. Which is funny to me because I always saw it as the complete opposite - I could end your sex life right here if I so decided to and take your ass out completely (if you know what I mean).

Anyway, he found his ultimate supply in men. He was a powerful body builder and found himself to be quite popular among men. He actually told me one day that he had never considered himself all that attractive until now - and I knew what he was talking about. There is an endless supply of closeted gay men out there hiding behind wives and girlfriends who will keep his secrets. He hit the gold mine. He actually thought this was not cheating as most all of them do.

I guess now its more of just a curiosity than anything else. A fascination with the depth of the disorders running rampant out there.

Susan32's picture

Emotional affair

I never got physical/romantic with my ex-Psychopath professor. We "went out" to things like concerts, lectures, and lunch, but it was definitely an emotional affair.

"These guys often have OW in long distance relationships who don't know one another"-My ex-P professor had a long-distance relationship with an LA curator who I didn't know existed till I met her at a concert. He beat a hasty retreat, with the poor lady having to catch up with him. She had to run down the stairs to catch up with him;he didn't even wait for her, nor did he introduce her to his fellow professors after she introduced herself to me. I told his fellow professors, "He didn't tell me he already had a girlfriend."

Yeah, making a quick retreat gave me the upper hand. Really classy.

My ex-P NEVER told me he had a serious girlfriend in LA. He hoovered me and acted romantically interested in me AFTER I met the OW (so yes, I went NC, then skipped town)

After I left, my ex-P married the OW and she had his kids.

Whether or not they're still together, I don't know or care. My friends thought my ex-P gave off strong gaydar, so they were shocked when the girlfriend was revealed.

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

The Need to Know

Thank you to everyone for your advice and information.

Here's somthing else my N BF does that 'clued' me in that something was up...besides his extreme moodiness. He will watch a hockey or football game and turn the sound up really loud (if I am in another part of the house)...and then sneak with the phone in the bathroom and talk softly. After he talks to whoever he doesn't want me to know about...he then dials either his parent's number or his kids phone #...that way when I check the phone ID (which he has programed to only hold 1 # at a time) it appears he was talking to his parents or kids..I KNOW it is NOT his parents or kids he talks to first though...because he doesn't need to turn up the TV and go hide in the bathroom with the phone(and he doesn't call them at 10pm at night or 3 times a day)...I keep trying to catch him with who it is exactly...I figured out that he will usually encourage me to go downstairs (we live in a 3 story townhouse) and check my email while he watches the game...now I know to sneak upstairs when he suddenly turns up the volume. HATE this!

I know people keep asking me 'why' do I need to see proof of what I know...it is a common question...but actually most women/men who have been cheated on have a need to visualize what their intuition 'knows'...probably to make certain it is real...as it hurts so much and we don't want to believe it. I know my N BF is abusive and does bad things at least every other day...or more...and I already have reason to leave him...guess I truly want to catch him and have my 'moment' too where he KNOWS he has been caught...and can no longer pass everything off on me...and I can give him an ugly look and walk away. If you don't have the evidence in some form...you are NOT armed and informed and therefore have less power over him (he can continue to deny and make you out to be the 'untrusting' one)...I want to reclaim some of my own power and dignity.

Think of Elin Woods. Surely she must have 'suspected' something before she was able to prove it...exhibited by her going through his phone records and calling suspicious numbers...money, fame, position aside...no matter who you are...there IS a need to KNOW and have proof of what your gut is telling you. It's human.

It is easy for people to tell each other...he's a rotten guy and you know that...so WHY do you need to know? Just walk away!...but you are always left wondering if the things he says about YOU are partially true...such as "you are just a jealous person" (NOT!!! BTW never have been jealous of any other woman)...you just can'trust me"... (umm NOPE! YOU just can't be trusted Buddie!)..."You are causing me to cheat with all your accusations I might as well DO it anyway) ...stupid thing to say as an excuse...and I have NEVER even accused him of cheating...

I KNOW what he IS (lying cheating, abusive Narc)...but there is a fundamental need to see the TRUTH...as it gets lost among all his acting out behaviors...his denials, his abuse...and even his 'promises'...and obviously his lies. I know it will hurt to have the proof in front of me...it hurts worse for me 'knowing' what I know and him being able to deny it and call me names and put the oneous back on me as if suspecting what he is really up to is a very bad and wrong thing and that I am somehow a bad person for ever mistrusting 'such a wonderful amazing incredible man as he' thinks he is. He is always telling me how 'happy' I should be and how 'lucky' I should consider myself to have him as my BF...as there are so many women out there who would be 'happy' to have him...(yeccchhhh!)

Perhaps it is also that I prefer absolute clarity and truth (evidence/proof)...something that is always lost in a relationship with a Nearcissist is TRUTH!!!...perhaps even MORE so than with any other type of person, because their whole lives are 'acted' out and a Narc is a walking LIE. His true self doesn't even exist.

It's not so much that I don't want HIM to be able to lie to me, as I know he lies and always will...I want very much to no longer be able to LIE TO MYSELF!

Barbara's picture

Once you get away and go

Once you get away and go TOTAL NO CONTACT... you'll be surprised how EASY it is to STOP LYING TO YOURSELF

YOU NEED TO GET AWAY FROM THE BRAINWASHING & NLP/ HYPNOSIS before you can really take in ANY sort of reality here.

~~~~~~~~~
The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem

Visit My Abuse Website

Marina's picture

The need to have evidence

Hmmm, you remind me of myself so much. I knew in my gut he was cheating. The signs were everywhere. Somatic narcissists (like mine) cheat in a massive way. There's only so much you can hide. Besides, they're so numb to the guilt of cheating that they don't bother to hide it as much as a normal person would. You can't help but know. That is what your gut is telling you.

I knew even months into the relationship that something fishy was going on. Yet I reigned myself in, silenced my doubts, second guessed myself all because I wanted to be an "understanding" girlfriend. I didn't want to act like the crazy girlfriend. However, my gut refused to be silenced. I suffered from internal conflict. I knew he was cheating, yet I stopped myself from believing he was. I tried to make sense of everything he did and said. It drove me crazy. Mental rumination, or should I say mental ruination. Trying to make sense of anything about them will drive you CRAZY because they simply DON'T MAKE SENSE. Please for your sake, don't even attempt the impossible.

Perhaps like you, I needed evidence. I tried to get evidence. My mental ruination led me down the wrong path.In search of evidence, I made some mistakes I didn't think I was capable of. I realize now that immaturity is contagious. Sure,I did get my evidence. Then I dumped him. But what did I get out of it? NOTHING. NOTHING. NOTHING. I already knew way before having evidence that he was cheating. That should have been enough. Just cut your losses and move on. The undeniable proof of a betrayal is too painful. Why do you want that?

You'll never feel safe with a narcissist. Life is too short to waste time with someone you can never really be free with. I just want to let go, be happy, and completely TRUST and TRUST IN my partner. Trust his words and actions as well as trust in him (his character and morality). Imagine what a healthy and mutually fulfilling relationship will be like It sounds like heaven doesn't it? Then why the hell do we struggle against losing the Ns??? Something somewhere loves us enough to free us from the pathological. I know it's not easy. I know sometimes it seems impossible. That's why we need to fight a good fight so we can be free of the chains that bind us and direct us to what is good for us. Someday we'll feel whole and happy again if we commit to recovery enough and if we CHOOSE to be free and happy.

I'm learning to be happy on my own. This helped me realized that despite my thinking I loved him, I was miserable the entire time I was with him (except during the idealization phase).

I JUST WANT TO BE HAPPY. No bullshit. No drama. No trust u

TexN's picture

USE Your Woman's Intuition...

We are wired to have that in us...trust it!

agnesmurphy17's picture

Why are you with this guy?

You don't trust him. You believe he would lie to you. You believe he would have another woman. Isn't that enough? What's he got that you want so badly to live which such doubts? And if you had proof, what would you do with that information? Confront him? Why bother? He may deny & come up with some reasonable explanation & you would still think he was lying. You don't trust him. Without trust there is no relationship.

alfrebob's picture

I caught him cheating loads of times

There are a few times that come to mind. We had been together for 5 months at this stage. We went for a drink and then I had to go home. He gave me the keys to his house to go and get my dog who had been left there while we were out. The dog had emptied his bin over the floor and there were copies of emails from a woman with a raunchy picture. They were lovely dovey emails. I went back to the pub, threw the keys at him and told him to check his bin.

I got home and signed into his email account and found that they had been exchanging loving emails for several weeks and were planning to meet. I then emailed her and told her to keep away from my boyfriend.

I confronted him about it. He went beserk. WAIT FOR IT........ He said that he had been recruited by a television show to infiltrate a Russian Bridal Internet scam and now because of me they had cancelled his contract and he had lost £5000!! and NO he did not have a copy of the contract and NOW he had lost £5000!!!!!!.......... I stayed with him!!!!!

On another occassion I joined an internet dating site under a false name and made arrangements to go on a date with my own boyfriend!!!!!..........He said he knew it was me!! .... I stayed with him!!!!

I could tell you loads of stories like this. There were loads of them.

Yet I still got engaged to him, bought a house with him and had his baby.........HOW STUPID AM I???

The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

Forgot to add...

Forgot to add...that on Friday morning, after I had returned home after being apart for one night on Thursday, our bed was made as if he hadn't slept in it...almost too carefully...like a woman made it...as I have lived with him for over 2 years now and know how messy he makes the bed...he just plops the pillows on and semi-pulls up the comforter...but leaves things all wrinkled and hanging crooked...the bed was made evenly and without wrinkles and things a little too much in their place...like someone else had been there...

If he is cheating again, it must be with someone who doesn't mind that he is in a relationship, as his & my photos are on the fireplace mantle and in our room on the dresser...and my girlie things, make-up, etc. is in the bathroom. So she must be aware he lives with a GF...how can she do that? Be with a man who she knows is cheating on another woman? It is so hurtful.

Last year I came home after being gone for a weekend, and found a pink razor in the shower that was not mine. (I don't have a pink one). His excuse? It was an 'old razor' left by his 'old' GF and he 'must've left it there in the shower when he had to use it. (I had been living with him for almost 6 months when this occured, and there was NEVER a pink razor ANYWHERE, not in a drawer or anywhere else before WTF??? Nothing left behind by some 'old GF'...unless it was the old GF who had been there when I was away for the weekend. He NEVER shaves in the shower...NEVER...and he has his own Gillette Razor for 'manly men' (the BOZO) in the BR drawer....that was just one of the 'clues' as to what he was probably up to.

If you read my story you can see there have been MANY clues! I feel like I have been so stupid and foolish. His cheating has actually caused me to feel embarrassed...as if I am less than the OW he cheats with. And it has hurt SO much!

Lim's picture

Cheating

I, too, was the OW. Not only did he have his wife, he had his mistress (me), and he was pursuing other supply sources all along. I had proof. One of the women even verbally told me they had s*x while we were together and I still forgave him! He could sell a drowning woman a glass of water. They want you to believe that you are the one and only and will say whatever it takes for you to believe it. They slowly erode you of all of your dignity and self-worth and make you believe that what your gut is telling you isn't real. In reality, they are the fakes.

Lim's picture

Cheating 2

In fact, his wife walked in on us at their house (in the middle of the day in the middle of nowhere) having lunch and she still didn't believe anything was going on. She told him "if something were to have happened, it would by now." Had she showed 15 minutes earlier, there would have been no denying it. I was on top of him n@ked in her bed!

He has her so brainwashed and void of any confidence or self-esteem. I was the lucky one and got out. She still has him.