Register and join our discussion in the Message Board
Dr. George Simon (In sheep's clothing) sheds a new light on the character disordered among us...:
Some professionals (and non-professionals) insist that disordered characters actually do feel guilt and shame but that they effectively utilize — or perhaps over-utilize — certain “defense mechanisms†such as “denial†and “projection†to assuage the emotional pain associated with that guilt or pain. This is because they continue to accept the tenets of classical psychology (i.e., that everyone is neurotic to a greater or lesser degree) and because believing that all individuals are fundamentally similar makes it hard for them to imagine how anyone could behave in a manner that appears so shameless unless they were in fact defending themselves against real pain underneath it all.
My work has taught me, however, that being embarrassed at being uncovered or found out is not the same as being ashamed of oneself. Shame is one of those mechanisms that makes a person think twice about doing something wrong in the first place. Moreover, a person who truly feels ashamed of himself is certainly not likely do the same shameful things over and over again. Character-disordered people will sometimes claim they didn’t come clean with themselves or others because they were ashamed. But this is often a lie they tell because they know a neurotic person is likely to find it plausible.
Individuals overly invested in the classical explanations of human behavior might also tend to believe that those who commit criminal behaviors in a manner that is so careless, reckless, impulsive, and thoughtless, do so because they have a subconscious desire (arising out of pangs of conscience) to be caught. There has never been any empirical support for this notion, but that has not kept many from adhering to it. In fact, there is mounting evidence that some of the most seriously disturbed characters act the way they do because they experience few if any pangs of conscience. A very renowned researcher, Dr. Robert Hare, has aptly titled his very revealing book about the most seriously disturbed character — the psychopath — Without Conscience.
Stop being manipulated!
http://www.drgeorgesimon.com/drsimonsblogarchives.html
if these disorders are
July 15, 2009 - 2:41pm — Carolynif these disorders are genetic and involve a low emotional intellence they don't know what you are talking about and just bounce from victim to victim leaving a trail of heartbreak, economic disaster, and destruction.
insecurity
July 14, 2009 - 5:08am — Barbara (not verified)The Narc probably is but because of their pathology - their being so far out of touch with reality - their false self - their believing their own lies... I doubt they are even aware of their insecurity.
For me, even thinking that - someone might give them another chance. And to truly BE insecure you have to, at some level, be SELF-AWARE - something they simply CAN NOT BE. (not WILL not - CAN not)
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily
Online Coaching for Victims of Narcissists/ Psychopaths
Shame Vs Guilt
July 14, 2009 - 11:13am — JamesAfter reading the book No Place To Hide by Michael P Nichols, Ph. D. One of the things I have learned from this book is about guilt and shame.
“What’s Wrong With Meâ€
We may speak, incorrectly, of being ashamed of certain actions, but is about who we are, not what we do. We feel guilty about breaking the rules, ashamed of ourselves for doing so. Shame is closer to identity then action; no single act is seen as wrong and, therefore reparable.
If you lie to a friend and feel guilty, you can confess and apologize. If you lie to a friend and get caught before you can confess, you may so ashamed that you can’t even face that friend. In shame, it is the self that feels worthless. If you are bad, you can make amends. If you are worthless, there’s nothing you can do about it.
What is it about the self that is so unacceptable? What is the basic content of shame? According to Leon Uurmser, one of the most astute psycholanalytic students of shame, human being are ashamed of three things above all else: weakness, dirtiness and defectiveness. (3)
pg: 33
What was so important to me personally in this book is how it points out that guilt is what we do but shame is who we are.
http://james-personalitydisorder.blogspot.com/
Buried deep down
July 14, 2009 - 12:07pm — GhostBusterI think Ns are insecure, but it's burried so deep they would never see it or own it (like barbara said, no self awareness). After I broke off the engagement with my recent ex N, I talked to his mom one last time. The very last thing I said to her was that I thought her son was deeply insecure. I hadn't yet even thought of him in terms of being an N, but I had sensed insecurity him.
And I think being "shamed" by his strictly religious mom about sex at an early age could have lead to his objectification of women and inability to perform unless he could degrade/objectify his partner.
I may be wrong but I think there is something to this. Of course, thinking this way does, as barbara implies, tug on our sympathetic natures. If we buy into this as a rationale for their behavior, it could lead us to think that if we provide a safe environment for them to discuss their insecurities and shame...and try to help them through it...that they could get better. I firmly believe they won't change so whatever underpinnings drive their N-ness--shame, insecurity, oedipal stuff--it can be counterproductive for our recoveries to dwell too long on it.