It is so true that unless you confront the pain of seeing yourself as someone who was duped and manipulated , you will never be free. That can be a hard pill to swallow;it is humiliatating,embarrassing and so sad to see it for what it was.
The truth may be hard but the alternative is worse..i have been 12 days nc after 4 years of thinking ' it must be me'....it took a dose of 'flu and the typical 'not interested as you aren't useful' reaction for me to wise up.
BTW everyone, this site is such a support. When tempted to contact, remember the trigger will pass and you will have got through it. Be strong.
This is right on, and a great blog that I've enjoyed reading.
One thing that struck me with some book recommendations I initially received, was that some authors were of the opinion that it's possible to work with 'your narcissist'. Even though I was just learning, I knew that just didn't sound right. The things they discussed, I already tried over and over. It's just not really possible...sad but true.
Thanks for posting this; this really validates the anger issue.
I've read here and there that we should forgive, or that our anger gives the abuser more power. Pffftt!
I say, nonsense!
Getting angry has given me power to express myself, I can actually do that now!
One thing (among many) that makes me really MAD - he didn't really take anything in and LEARN a damn thing...all my efforts day in and day out, trying to build the relationship were only for one reason - for the sake of trying to keep peace. That's a hell of a lot of work for such a stupid reason.
Remember: Safe People are people who draw you closer to who you were meant to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. They encourage you to be your most loving, growing self.
The most important thing to keep in mind is that your relationship with yourself is the most important relationship you have.
The same things can damage it that damage your other human relations. The deal-breaker is BETRAYAL.
Have you ever felt betrayed? If so, then you know that it is the blackest feeling a human being can have. It is devastating. It is what makes people want to just turn their face to the wall and die.
Because it shows you what you and your suffering mean (are worth) to your betrayer = nothing.
Betrayal severs any human relationship. It puts the betrayed through Hell.
Just think what this means in terms of your relationship with yourself. If you betray yourself to abuse, that betrayal severs your relationship with yourself.
How can this be? Easily. We are composite beings. We are a combination of true inner self and ego. The ego views us as others do. It's that little voice in the head that takes the viewpoint of bystanders and berates you IN THE SECOND PERSON, by saying such things as, "Why can't you hit a stupid backhand in? You are pathetic! Here you are, choking again in a big match!"
That's you (if you're a tennis player having a bad tennis day) talking to you. But why aren't you saying, "Why can't I hit a stupid backhand in? I am pathetic! Here I am, choking again in a big match!"
Answer: You address yourself as "you" instead of "I" to distance yourself from yourself. Because you don't like yourself at the moment and are disowning yourself, relating to yourself as though talking to a different person.
See what's happening to your relationship with yourself? You're not on your side, are you?
This happens to everyone, and it should serve as a strong warning of how easily our composite personality can breakdown, split.
Don't go there. Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment. You sin against yourself when you do, and the act WILL destroy your relationship with yourself.
Unfortunately, if you are the victim of a narcissist, it is safe to say that you have already done so.
THIS is what threatens the victim's mental health. You have allowed yourself to be abused. You see that for what it is - bending over for it, laying down for it. No matter how blessed people say that is, you know it's not. You know it is abject. You are profoundly ashamed of doing that.
You hate yourself for it, no matter how hard you work to repress awareness of that to live in denial of it. So, you have committed an offense against yourself (your human dignity). You can never be friends with yourself until you make peace with yourself.
Repair that relationship with yourself. The fruit of forgiveness is reconciliation (ask any theologian).
1. Admit that you have allowed the narcissist to abuse you.
2. Admit that it was wrong to do so, though be fair with yourself and consider the reasons why you were driven to do so.
3. Be sorry that you betrayed yourself to abuse.
4. Make whatever amends are possible and appropriate.
5. Most important - repent = promise to never betray yourself again.
You may recognize those as the 5 formal steps of repentance. They make you forgivable. They allow reconciliation to take place.
Indeed, how can you be reconciled with any offender who doesn't at least stop offending and give you some assurance that he won't keep right on doing it? It is absurd to to think that you can.
And just because it's 3AM and he is sound asleep, unable to offend at the moment, doesn't mean that a state of war doesn't presently exist bewteen you. What he did yesterday counts. What he has always done and never promised to stop doing COUNTS.
"Forgive and forget" is a line penned in Hell, not Heaven.
It is absurd to think you can have any but a hostile relationship with someone offending you in any way, especially when they have refused to stop it.
Hey, if the offender stops doing it, you can be friends again. But ONLY if he stops doing it. You don't have to be friendly to people attacking you or stealing from you in any way. It's called the human right to self-preservation, self-defense. It's a Law of Nature. The very idea that you should like and be nice to someone doing things hostile to you is bizarre and absurd.
To the contrary: You stay away from people like that. You build walls between yourself and people like that. You answer their attacks to make their attacks cost them dearly, so as to deter future aggression that you might live in peace instead of under constant attack by them. This is just common sense.
And it holds just as true in your relationship with yourself as in your relationship with others. Simply say, "I betrayed myself to abuse in the past, but I will never do so again, so I am no longer a doormat to be ashamed of."
Be on your side.
Take those 5 steps to repair your relationship with yourself - especially the last one in which you establish a firm purpose of amendment to never betray yourself to abuse again.
Now you are forgivable. So, forgive yourself. Embrace yourself.
YOU are the one who deserves and needs your forgiveness. And chances are that you are the only one who deserves and wants it.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about and reading about forgiveness and I just didn't get it. I thought that you were supposed to forgive someone who hurts you over and over again. That is what I tried to do with my N. I really tried to forgive him for the unforgivable.
Now my understanding of forgiveness is to forgive myself, forgive the other person BUT DONT LET THEM HURT ME AGAIN! That is what boundaries are for. You don't allow someone to hurt you over and over again and continue to forgive them for mistreating you. That is insanity and very destructive.
Here are some questions I now ask myself.
1.Are they truly sorry for what they have done?
2. Have they apologized clearly and without saying "I'm sorry but....
3.Is this behavior ongoing? Is it a recurring behavior?
These questions help ME apologize when I have hurt someone too. I have learned from my children that we all hurt each other sometimes, but usually it is unintentional, you apologize, your apology is accepted, you forgive and move on.
This was never the scenario with the N. I wasn't allowed to be mad at him, ever. He demanded INSTANT forgiveness. He did the same things over and over again, even after apologizing and swearing that he wouldn't. His words meant absolutely nothing. He was always just saying whatever he needed to to get what he wanted.
I have turned him over to God, I no longer have to forgive him. It is between he and God now. That doesn't mean that I don't hold him accountable and that his behavior doesn't affect me. It does affect me a lot less because I dont have to deal with his crazy psycho behavior on a daily basis. I do have to deal with the fallout from it with the kids after they have been with him.
I am having a difficult time talking with my oldest daughter about him. I have explained to her that her dad is mentally ill, that he has a personality disorder and that he needs medication and treatment. She is very hurt and angry, and wants nothing to do with him. I feel so protective of all of my children, it is extremely difficult to let them go with him. He has done so many crazy, cruel, stupid, and thoughtless things to them. How do you make sense of that to a child?
Wow, is right. These are powerful words. Thank you so much for posting. You have no idea how much I needed to hear this today. As always, thank you for being here and thank you for your wisdom.
All I can say is wow! Thank you for posting this, truly amazing article; so puts things in to even more perspective for me. I've run out of words for now. I'm getting on with my day and I know I will be relecting on this as I do. I also know this has changed some of my thinking.
Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment. You sin against yourself when you do, and the act WILL destroy your relationship with yourself.
Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment.
Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment.
Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment.
NEVER!
or better, never more!
Remember: Safe People are people who draw you closer to who you were meant to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. They encourage you to be your most loving, growing self.
I began to realize that if I stayed in that relationship, I was dis-honoring myself. I said to myself that if I stayed, I obviously didn't like myself very much. If I didn't get out and STAY out, I would be subjecting myself to more humiliation, pain and dissappointment. I had to love myself enough to leave. I had to take myself by the hand and lead myself away from the torture. This post makes PERFECT sense! Thank you!
Me too. Despite feeling stuck to him like glue and knowing it would possibly kill me to leave, I knew I had to love myself more than he loved me, so I left and now have shattered. But putting the pieces together very, very slowly.
I too asked my boyfriend to leave. I said "This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do, but it's harder for me not knowing what you are doing on a daily basis" and he just......walked out. No regrets, no 'lets talk about this', no "but i love you and want to be with you"....he simply left. we had been together for 2 years adn although i can look back in my journal and see red flags, i remember i didnt' know exactly what they were.
Now i have been away from him for 2 months. i know i will never be with him again, but just feel as if he died.. Ther is no closure. I am struggling daily with it. 80% of my day is spent thinking about him and the life he lead me to believe we had. My friends are tired of hearing about my sadness and i just don't know how i can go on.
get into therapy IMMEDIATELY with a trauma counselor
- PLEASE go through ALL the pages on 'Message Board' as I have loaded it with articles and your questions have probably already been asked and answered many many times. Click through the pages and read what interests you. You'll get up to speed and learn a LOT. PLEASE do this BEFORE asking questions.
- PLEASE read the stories of others. This alone is one of the most validating things you can do. Far too many become completely wrapped up in their own drama... which just makes it all worse.
Remember this board is NEVER to be used as a replacement for therapy. Please find a therapist and start going as SOON as possible for whatever level of PTSD he's left you with!!
~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein
Like yourself and move on
December 16, 2009 - 4:37pm — peaceatlastIt is so true that unless you confront the pain of seeing yourself as someone who was duped and manipulated , you will never be free. That can be a hard pill to swallow;it is humiliatating,embarrassing and so sad to see it for what it was.
The truth may be hard but the alternative is worse..i have been 12 days nc after 4 years of thinking ' it must be me'....it took a dose of 'flu and the typical 'not interested as you aren't useful' reaction for me to wise up.
BTW everyone, this site is such a support. When tempted to contact, remember the trigger will pass and you will have got through it. Be strong.
trying to understand
June 28, 2009 - 2:06pm — Barbara (not verified)see top post
Good read!
May 26, 2009 - 3:24pm — quietude (not verified)This is right on, and a great blog that I've enjoyed reading.
One thing that struck me with some book recommendations I initially received, was that some authors were of the opinion that it's possible to work with 'your narcissist'. Even though I was just learning, I knew that just didn't sound right. The things they discussed, I already tried over and over. It's just not really possible...sad but true.
"understanding" them
May 26, 2009 - 8:30am — Barbara (not verified)bumping this up
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
anger & forgiveness.
April 24, 2009 - 7:37pm — Barbara (not verified)I don't believe in forgiveness. At all. For Narcs or Ps. Nope.
1. You can NOT forgive the unforgiveable.
2. You can NOT and SHOULD NOT forgive an ONGOING CRIME!
Anger is very healthy - it shows your self-respect is coming back and you can channel it to positive use!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
anger
April 24, 2009 - 3:22pm — quietude (not verified)Thanks for posting this; this really validates the anger issue.
I've read here and there that we should forgive, or that our anger gives the abuser more power. Pffftt!
I say, nonsense!
Getting angry has given me power to express myself, I can actually do that now!
One thing (among many) that makes me really MAD - he didn't really take anything in and LEARN a damn thing...all my efforts day in and day out, trying to build the relationship were only for one reason - for the sake of trying to keep peace. That's a hell of a lot of work for such a stupid reason.
Barbara, you are precious
April 25, 2009 - 2:34am — MarilineAnger saved both my life and dignity.
It's a lot to be grateful of.
Remember: Safe People are people who draw you closer to who you were meant to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. They encourage you to be your most loving, growing self.
(Emotional Abusers- Heartless Bitches International)
Forgiving the One Who Deserves Forgiveness
April 25, 2009 - 10:18pm — Barbara (not verified)by Kathy Krajco
The most important thing to keep in mind is that your relationship with yourself is the most important relationship you have.
The same things can damage it that damage your other human relations. The deal-breaker is BETRAYAL.
Have you ever felt betrayed? If so, then you know that it is the blackest feeling a human being can have. It is devastating. It is what makes people want to just turn their face to the wall and die.
Because it shows you what you and your suffering mean (are worth) to your betrayer = nothing.
Betrayal severs any human relationship. It puts the betrayed through Hell.
Just think what this means in terms of your relationship with yourself. If you betray yourself to abuse, that betrayal severs your relationship with yourself.
How can this be? Easily. We are composite beings. We are a combination of true inner self and ego. The ego views us as others do. It's that little voice in the head that takes the viewpoint of bystanders and berates you IN THE SECOND PERSON, by saying such things as, "Why can't you hit a stupid backhand in? You are pathetic! Here you are, choking again in a big match!"
That's you (if you're a tennis player having a bad tennis day) talking to you. But why aren't you saying, "Why can't I hit a stupid backhand in? I am pathetic! Here I am, choking again in a big match!"
Answer: You address yourself as "you" instead of "I" to distance yourself from yourself. Because you don't like yourself at the moment and are disowning yourself, relating to yourself as though talking to a different person.
See what's happening to your relationship with yourself? You're not on your side, are you?
This happens to everyone, and it should serve as a strong warning of how easily our composite personality can breakdown, split.
Don't go there. Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment. You sin against yourself when you do, and the act WILL destroy your relationship with yourself.
Unfortunately, if you are the victim of a narcissist, it is safe to say that you have already done so.
THIS is what threatens the victim's mental health. You have allowed yourself to be abused. You see that for what it is - bending over for it, laying down for it. No matter how blessed people say that is, you know it's not. You know it is abject. You are profoundly ashamed of doing that.
You hate yourself for it, no matter how hard you work to repress awareness of that to live in denial of it. So, you have committed an offense against yourself (your human dignity). You can never be friends with yourself until you make peace with yourself.
Repair that relationship with yourself. The fruit of forgiveness is reconciliation (ask any theologian).
1. Admit that you have allowed the narcissist to abuse you.
2. Admit that it was wrong to do so, though be fair with yourself and consider the reasons why you were driven to do so.
3. Be sorry that you betrayed yourself to abuse.
4. Make whatever amends are possible and appropriate.
5. Most important - repent = promise to never betray yourself again.
You may recognize those as the 5 formal steps of repentance. They make you forgivable. They allow reconciliation to take place.
Indeed, how can you be reconciled with any offender who doesn't at least stop offending and give you some assurance that he won't keep right on doing it? It is absurd to to think that you can.
And just because it's 3AM and he is sound asleep, unable to offend at the moment, doesn't mean that a state of war doesn't presently exist bewteen you. What he did yesterday counts. What he has always done and never promised to stop doing COUNTS.
"Forgive and forget" is a line penned in Hell, not Heaven.
It is absurd to think you can have any but a hostile relationship with someone offending you in any way, especially when they have refused to stop it.
Hey, if the offender stops doing it, you can be friends again. But ONLY if he stops doing it. You don't have to be friendly to people attacking you or stealing from you in any way. It's called the human right to self-preservation, self-defense. It's a Law of Nature. The very idea that you should like and be nice to someone doing things hostile to you is bizarre and absurd.
To the contrary: You stay away from people like that. You build walls between yourself and people like that. You answer their attacks to make their attacks cost them dearly, so as to deter future aggression that you might live in peace instead of under constant attack by them. This is just common sense.
And it holds just as true in your relationship with yourself as in your relationship with others. Simply say, "I betrayed myself to abuse in the past, but I will never do so again, so I am no longer a doormat to be ashamed of."
Be on your side.
Take those 5 steps to repair your relationship with yourself - especially the last one in which you establish a firm purpose of amendment to never betray yourself to abuse again.
Now you are forgivable. So, forgive yourself. Embrace yourself.
YOU are the one who deserves and needs your forgiveness. And chances are that you are the only one who deserves and wants it.
http://narc-attack.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Forgiveness
May 26, 2009 - 3:21pm — FawnI have spent a lot of time thinking about and reading about forgiveness and I just didn't get it. I thought that you were supposed to forgive someone who hurts you over and over again. That is what I tried to do with my N. I really tried to forgive him for the unforgivable.
Now my understanding of forgiveness is to forgive myself, forgive the other person BUT DONT LET THEM HURT ME AGAIN! That is what boundaries are for. You don't allow someone to hurt you over and over again and continue to forgive them for mistreating you. That is insanity and very destructive.
Here are some questions I now ask myself.
1.Are they truly sorry for what they have done?
2. Have they apologized clearly and without saying "I'm sorry but....
3.Is this behavior ongoing? Is it a recurring behavior?
These questions help ME apologize when I have hurt someone too. I have learned from my children that we all hurt each other sometimes, but usually it is unintentional, you apologize, your apology is accepted, you forgive and move on.
This was never the scenario with the N. I wasn't allowed to be mad at him, ever. He demanded INSTANT forgiveness. He did the same things over and over again, even after apologizing and swearing that he wouldn't. His words meant absolutely nothing. He was always just saying whatever he needed to to get what he wanted.
I have turned him over to God, I no longer have to forgive him. It is between he and God now. That doesn't mean that I don't hold him accountable and that his behavior doesn't affect me. It does affect me a lot less because I dont have to deal with his crazy psycho behavior on a daily basis. I do have to deal with the fallout from it with the kids after they have been with him.
I am having a difficult time talking with my oldest daughter about him. I have explained to her that her dad is mentally ill, that he has a personality disorder and that he needs medication and treatment. She is very hurt and angry, and wants nothing to do with him. I feel so protective of all of my children, it is extremely difficult to let them go with him. He has done so many crazy, cruel, stupid, and thoughtless things to them. How do you make sense of that to a child?
Barbara
April 26, 2009 - 7:08am — Lisa E. ScottWow, is right. These are powerful words. Thank you so much for posting. You have no idea how much I needed to hear this today. As always, thank you for being here and thank you for your wisdom.
Wow
April 26, 2009 - 4:55am — fairy wingsAll I can say is wow! Thank you for posting this, truly amazing article; so puts things in to even more perspective for me. I've run out of words for now. I'm getting on with my day and I know I will be relecting on this as I do. I also know this has changed some of my thinking.
Never, never, never betray
April 26, 2009 - 2:14am — MarilineNever, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment. You sin against yourself when you do, and the act WILL destroy your relationship with yourself.
Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment.
Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment.
Never, never, never betray yourself to bad treatment.
NEVER!
or better, never more!
Remember: Safe People are people who draw you closer to who you were meant to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. They encourage you to be your most loving, growing self.
(Emotional Abusers- Heartless Bitches International)
I Must Not Like Myself Very Much
May 26, 2009 - 1:44pm — neveragainI began to realize that if I stayed in that relationship, I was dis-honoring myself. I said to myself that if I stayed, I obviously didn't like myself very much. If I didn't get out and STAY out, I would be subjecting myself to more humiliation, pain and dissappointment. I had to love myself enough to leave. I had to take myself by the hand and lead myself away from the torture. This post makes PERFECT sense! Thank you!
Goes for me too
May 26, 2009 - 3:35pm — EchoMe too. Despite feeling stuck to him like glue and knowing it would possibly kill me to leave, I knew I had to love myself more than he loved me, so I left and now have shattered. But putting the pieces together very, very slowly.
How are you Now?
March 27, 2010 - 12:01am — lostmysoulI too asked my boyfriend to leave. I said "This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do, but it's harder for me not knowing what you are doing on a daily basis" and he just......walked out. No regrets, no 'lets talk about this', no "but i love you and want to be with you"....he simply left. we had been together for 2 years adn although i can look back in my journal and see red flags, i remember i didnt' know exactly what they were.
Now i have been away from him for 2 months. i know i will never be with him again, but just feel as if he died.. Ther is no closure. I am struggling daily with it. 80% of my day is spent thinking about him and the life he lead me to believe we had. My friends are tired of hearing about my sadness and i just don't know how i can go on.
Advice?
lostmysoul
March 27, 2010 - 1:33am — Barbara (not verified)get into therapy IMMEDIATELY with a trauma counselor
- PLEASE go through ALL the pages on 'Message Board' as I have loaded it with articles and your questions have probably already been asked and answered many many times. Click through the pages and read what interests you. You'll get up to speed and learn a LOT. PLEASE do this BEFORE asking questions.
- PLEASE read the stories of others. This alone is one of the most validating things you can do. Far too many become completely wrapped up in their own drama... which just makes it all worse.
- PLEASE read through our WHOLE blog: http://www.lisaescott.com/blog - chock full of articles about Ns and healing
PLEASE read the Rules prior to posting. Thanks
- listen to our free radio show - archived at:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/allabouthim
Remember this board is NEVER to be used as a replacement for therapy. Please find a therapist and start going as SOON as possible for whatever level of PTSD he's left you with!!
~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein
Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
"understanding" them
October 26, 2009 - 8:25pm — Barbara (not verified)SEE TOP POST
'Understanding' a Narcissist
March 26, 2010 - 5:09pm — Barbara (not verified)READ WHOLE THREAD
~~~~~~~~~
The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein
Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims