Register and join our discussion in the Message Board
I beleive I am dating a narcassist, I am completely addicted and afraid to walk away. Im afraid about the seperation from him, what if I never find anyone else, he does do some nice things for me. I beleive he manipulates me threw things I never had and he knows it. He does all the little things I love in order to keep me around. Its almost like he studys me, he try to learn what makes me tick/pisses me off, so he can do those things to me and then make it better. We do not live together, but we spend quite a bit of time together.
Him and I started out as strictly sexual, at this time he insisted that he doesnt date, and only has sexual relationships.
He told me he is a sex addict and I am not his gf, we are just good together and not labelling our realtionship is the way to go.
But treating me like a gf the whole time. He refers to me as his "girl" or that we are "dating". We have been "dating" now for over a year.
Basically.....his ex left him 3 years ago, and he is still trying to figure out why anyone would leave him...so I assume, by not admiting Im his gf, this will save him the embarrasement, when I leave....he can say, "she wasnt my gf anyway". Im guessing he uses this ego to mask his self esteem. Until all of the sudden, he joined the same sports team as me....(totally his idea) and we start spending a lot of time together.
I have met his family, been to family functions usual gf things.
I think he wants me to be his and only his, but is afraid when I realize I can do better, I will run away and he will be alone again?
He knows I had a rough childhood and im completely emotionally damaged....Im also guessing he uses this to his advantage.
I am currently in therapy trying to understand why it is so hard for me to leave, what do I do, it is taking over my thought process! He is not bad all the time, he just keeps me sucked in. HELP!
Confusion is a component of
May 19, 2009 - 4:50pm — Barbara (not verified)Confusion is a component of the PTSD complex almost all Narc/Psychopath victims end up with:
Some good must reads:
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2007/08/intense-attachments.html
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/narcissism_checklist.html
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2007/11/should-i-react-this-w...
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2007/09/am-i-pathological-too...
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2007/08/grieving-pathological...
Of course Narcs foster and USE confusion to debilitate us:
http://changingminds.org/principles/confusion.htm
http://ezinearticles.com/?Advanced-Covert-Hypnosis-Confusion-Technique&i...
http://instanthypnosishelp.com/
And don't buy it when Narcs say THEY are "confused" (the only thing that confuses them is why the whole world doesn't buy their B.S.)
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/mail-we-get-mail-whe...
Confusion - It's real, it's a symptom
May 19, 2009 - 3:02pm — theotherbedI searched this site in the hopes of finding others who have experienced sometimes debilitating confusion--not just about the N, or leaving, but literally, not to be able to complete otherwise normal tasks.
I wrote about this here, because I was really concerned that survivors would not be able to see that this is one result of PTSD, which is what happens when you live with an N. When you've literally been brainwashed for years (decades in my case), you can and do suffer from some forms of cognitive impairment. If you start to notice these subtle behavioral changes in yourself, you are more motivated to GTF out, and kinder towards yourself when you're not operating up to par by your own standards.
Anybody confused? Not about the N, but are you really having trouble focusing and completing tasks?
The Other Bed
May 19, 2009 - 7:27pm — Lisa E. ScottOh, yes. I know exactly what you're saying. They brain wash us to such a degree, that we really need to retrain out brain to start thinking healthy again. It took me three years to figure this out and by the time I did, I had nearly lost my sanity. Thanks to finding Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, I was able to begin the process of retraining my brain. I personally think it's the only thing that works after being brainwashed. Talk therapy does not cut it here. If you haven't tried it, please look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). I cannot recommend it more highly. Hang in there. Big Hugs, L
confusion
May 19, 2009 - 4:20pm — quietude (not verified)Yes, I did when I was with him to a degree. I was confused how a person who was supposed to love me treated me so poorly at times.
They purposely keep you in a state where you're always second guessing yourself. This way, they're able to keep the power and control going.
When he left, the first two weeks - forget it, I was a walking zombie. Now that he's gone, that confusion is for the most part gone too. I have a much more clear picture of what was happening to me. I'm still in a bit of a funk in a way, but I think it's normal and going to take a while to get my old self back.
problem is
April 23, 2009 - 9:30pm — Barbara (not verified)Because they have no real "feelings" or real "emotions" doing to him what he did to you? Has ZERO EFFECT. He won't care.
The only way, I have found, is to expose them so they think twice about doing it to other people. And to educate the public that these soul sucking vampires blend right in.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
whatever
April 21, 2009 - 3:20pm — Barbara (not verified)don't backpedal - I get it.
what you said was a VERY CLEAR AND POWERFUL STATEMENT of your inner negative self-talk. Do the exercise I told you about. Please!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
this sucks...
April 23, 2009 - 9:50am — whatever2009I honest to god picture him leaving me daily. He has been really distant lately and the anxiety I feel is making me physically ill. I know that Im way better and I know he will never change, I just wish I had more of a backbone when it comes to him. I havent been calling him as much either, but only because I am to proud. I dont want to be a sucker, so I just sit back and wait for him to call me.
But when he doesnt I get really sick and incredibly sad. I start to feel myself slip into depression, he is not worth all this pain. But I cant help feeling this way.
I wish, that he would just decide to go, and make this so much easier. I havent felt this pathetic and rejected in a really long time....
whatever
April 23, 2009 - 12:58pm — cassiemaySorry you are feeling so badly. It's like knife in the stomach, isn't it? Literally. As said before those feelings will wane over time. It's just getting through it during that time when things are at their worse. When I find myself slipping back into that space I try to remind myself of what it was REally like being with him when the times were bad. And towards the end it was all bad. Would I be willing to return to that? Would I or could I live again with the emotional abuse? That helps me to stop obsessing and idealizing the good times and snap back to reality. No. I Don't want that. Ever ever ever again. I also remind myself that I did the best I could to make things work. There was nothing more I could do or could have done to change things for the better. Hang in there sweetheart. CM
CM and Quietude.
April 23, 2009 - 1:31pm — whatever2009Thanks for the thoughts ladies...
The only reason I could see him leaving the realtionship, is because i have become quite hostile and have started talking back. The crazy thing is, he is telling people daily how beautiful, and wonderful i am. But he never or rarely tells me. He use to pay so much attention to my needs, and now I feel he is taking me for granite. He knows or is so confident Im not going anywhere, he calls me whenever he wants, and everything is on his terms. It wasnt like this before....
He tells OTHER people how
April 23, 2009 - 4:52pm — better offHe tells OTHER people how wonderful you are to make HIMSELF look good. I also think sometimes they really do think those things are true, but they won't tell us because they are too passive-aggressive and punishing to let you hear it from him.
compliments
April 23, 2009 - 5:23pm — quietude (not verified)Toward the latter part of my relationship, I found I was fishing for compliments.
I needed validation from him, especially since I was not feeling too great about myself. I was too busy reasurring him how wonderful and sexy he was.
One night, when we were about to head out for dinner, I just was kind of 'up to here' with focusing on how HE looked, so I said 'how about me?', he said 'fine'...I said 'is that it'? He made a big fuss about how he doesn't want to say anything anymore because when he compliments me I always disagree, so he doesn't bother....WTF?? I told him, I do not...yes you do...I just let it die because I couldn't be bothered spending yet even more energy on arguing.
well well quietude
April 23, 2009 - 9:32pm — Barbara (not verified)notice how he put YOU on the defensive so you wouldn't have to ask for compliments or validation (which to him is ATTENTION)
All the attention should be HIS - he had you lured & reeled in so the facade dropped and he no longer had time or need to give ATTENTION to anyone but himself.
Typical.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
yes, I dared...
April 23, 2009 - 10:49pm — quietude (not verified)How dare I ask for anything, even a little compliment!
Oh, this reminds me to of - isn't it Sandra Brown who talked about "clingers?" They need constant reassurance about everything including their appearance, and well, pretty much everything?
Mine needed to know that he was the very BEST man EVER, that everyone else essentially was sh** that I dated prior. I can't believe I went along with that. What we do in the name of peace.
I so much hated having to keep up with all of that reassurance crap, how exhausting.
I wont admit he is the best,
April 24, 2009 - 2:01pm — whatever2009I wont admit he is the best, I always tell him to leave me alone, stop asking me stupid questions, it drives him NUTS!
I guess you could tell him
April 24, 2009 - 2:08pm — better offI guess you could tell him he has the BEST girlfriend. ;-)
more 4 u - quietude
April 23, 2009 - 11:20pm — Barbara (not verified)http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/GirlfriendorCarry-on.shtml
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/womenwhoneedmen.shtml
enjoy!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
whatever
April 23, 2009 - 1:35pm — cassiemay"He wasn't like this before."
But darling, he is NOW. :-( Remember that.
sad...
April 23, 2009 - 3:58pm — whatever2009its horrible....I actually thought he would change for me.
how sad.....
Now I have visions of ruining his life....
Altho he still has no idea Im this effected by him (thank god)
I wish I could manipulate him to think Im so head over heals in love with him, and then just cutting him off....
I wish I could actually do it.
Who have I become....
I read somewhere, and now i
April 23, 2009 - 4:56pm — better offI read somewhere, and now i can't find it, a really interesting thing about fears of abandonment. Dr Steven Stosny says we're hardwired like that as evolutionary protection. Because way back when, if you were abandoned you really MIGHT die. So, looking at it that way, it's a survival trait, because even a big asshole narcissitic caveman might still be the only way to feed your cave kids and stay alive. So we biologically panic at the thought of leaving even when we are unhappy.
Thing is in 2008, we won't die without him. Lucky us!!
An interesting thought
April 23, 2009 - 5:26pm — fairy wingsThinking we might be programmed in this way is interesting.I know I fear being abandoned and have always put this down to the fact that my mother had a nervous breakdown when I was three (just after my sister was born); she spent the next eighteen months in a psychiatric hospital (that is a whole other story as she was in and out all the time I lived at home), however my point is that when I have examined this in counselling I could see that at the age of three there may have been a real possibility that if other adults had not been there to look after me I could have quite literally not survived. What I have found harder to understand is why is the fear of abandonment still so strong as an adult? It makes no sense, particularly when I had no children to my abusive partner (the children I ahd had left home when I met him) and I was financially independant. It took me so long to break away and a long time to recover, however what I have never understood is what kept me stuck for so long. It wasn't that I even feared being on my own, but something in me didn't want to admit he didn't love me, maybe because in my mind this equalled I was unlovable and this matched the feelings from my childhood. I used to be very angry with my mum because I reasoned if she had loved me enough she would have kept herself well and fought her depression; the reality was that her needs were always greater than mine and I guess in that she matched my abusive partner so well as his needs also always came before mine! Of course I was well rehearsed in coping with this.
abandonment
April 23, 2009 - 9:37pm — Barbara (not verified)http://www.abandonmentrecovery.com/abando.anon.html
http://www.abandonment.net/faq.frame.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
abandonment
April 23, 2009 - 10:26pm — quietude (not verified)Thanks for this! Abandonment is so...strange. I asked myself...each time, how could he? how COULD he? It's so cruel, so damn cold. Another 'issue' he created for me that I need to overcome. Woohoo.
I still can't wrap my brain around this:
He abandons, literally days later says it was a mistake, followed by a very intense attempts to reconcile. Maybe it's just not for me to understand.
quietude
April 23, 2009 - 10:48pm — Barbara (not verified)you - and your NORMAL SELF are trying to make sense out of a PATHOLOGICAL. Even scientists have a hard time with this. Just look at the shock every time a Scott Peterson or Craigslist Killer happens; when you & I KNOW these soulless vampires walk among us.
They see us as OBJECTS... that's how cold and selfish they are. They are P R E D A T O R S. That's how they can do it. They could CARE LESS how hurt or devastated you are. It means NOTHING to them. Psycho-boy used to 'apologize' to me like yours did -- it was all to suck me back into his sick vortex so I wouldn't tell on him or find out the truth. They apologize because they still want to suck you dry. That's all - they are NEVER remorseful or sorry. EVER!!!
Here you go: http://www.choicesoforegon.com/thinking_errors.htm
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/10/soul-slayer-psycholog...
They are not like us... don't try to judge them the way you'd judge a NORMAL PERSON - because you will end up making yourself sick over it!
~~~~~~~~
The Danger of Ascribing Normal Human Motives to Narcissists
by Kathy Krajco
Narcissists don't act on normal human premises. Which is why their actions blind-side us. That's because, without realizing it, we make certain assumptions about them, assumptions that are safe to make about any normal human being.
In fact, if narcissists looked like aliens from another planet, we wouldn't make those assumptions and would interpret their behavior much differently than we do. As a result, our red alerts would go off as we saw the warning signs that this is a predator almost immediately.
But the wolf wears sheep's clothing to fool us into allowing it to get close. Since narcissists look and try to act like like the rest of us, we make disastrous assumptions without even realizing it. We assume a lot of things about narcissists that we shouldn't.
For example, we assume that they hurt us because they have some personal animosity toward us. But I doubt that.
We naturally assume that anyone who tries to hurt us has it in for us personally. Otherwise, they wouldn't try to hurt us. And this is normally true. But I think it's a kind of anthropomorphism to map this normal human behavior on a malignant narcissist ;-)
If a normal person is out to get you, there is a reason for it. It is because of something about you or something you have done that fills them with a personal animosity toward you.
And their whole opinion of you won't go upside down for no reason tomorrow.
That's all because even this hostile relationship is a normal human relationship. It makes sense. It is natural.
And we tend to think this is what's going on in a narcissist.
But wait a minute. Consider the serial killer who stalks and kills TOTAL STRANGERS. Proof positive that we shouldn't make such assumptions, that they don't necessarily apply to a disordered personality.
I have seen two narcissists change their attitude toward someone literally overnight, just because the circumstances changed to shift the balance of power. In both cases, the narcissist completely rewrote history to "justify" changing their portrayal of that person overnight. Yesterday, he was her hated father, someone she never had one good word to say about. Today, he has always been a wonderful father. She has no end of praise for him and won't tolerate anyone finding fault with him. All because it's suddenly to her advantage to shift gears this way.
That ain't real, is it? It just proves that she couldn't possibly have really hated her father before. And you're an idiot if you then think she loves him now.
I know of two narcissists who tyrannized a school for decades, running one persecution after another by training the other male coaches as their "hunting hounds" in the Ritual Hunt. (By the way, the original meaning of the Latin word for "persecute" was "to set your hunting hounds upon" prey that you would "persecute" with them = chase, baying and biting at the heels to worry and eventually bring down the bunny and and tear it to pieces. A perfect analogy for persecution, eh?)
These guys were so relentless in their persecution of the priest who was principal that everyone assumed he had done something awful to provoke such hatred in them. The Big Mystery around there, which people dared speak of only in whispers, was the big question: What had the priest done to make them hate him so?
Answer. Nothing. Correction: he became principal, that's what. And had a mind of his own. Unlike the coaches, when Killer and Spike suggested that he come to them for guidance, he didn't obey, arriving weekly with his tail wagging at them for a critique on how he'd done his job. Unforgivable!
That isn't personal animosity. It was nothing but a power struggle.
Persecuting a chosen colleague wasn't enough if they didn't show that they were capable of persecuting the principal himself to their hearts' content. THAT put the Fear of Killer and Spike in everyone.
The priest was just an outstanding target of opportunity, that's all. One there was great benefit in persecuting. Indeed, what if you came to teach at that school and saw them persecuting the boss with all those baying hounds of theirs? You'd know whom to please – not the principal, that's for sure.
They were just making an example of him to show everyone else what would happen to anyone they set their pack of hounds on. Read "power play." So, it wasn't about the priest. It wouldn't have mattered who he was: anyone in his position would have "gotten it" from them. (Anyone stupid enough to turn the other cheek instead of just firing them, that is.)
It's the same with your narcissist. It isn't about you. Anyone in your shoes would be getting it, so don't take it personally. Never take an attack by a PREDATOR personally.
They don't relate to human beings humanly. They deny their own humanity as well as yours. The only difference is that they promote their humanity and demote yours in their delusions.
They relate to you as but an object. People don't get mad at objects.
Well, not after their first three or four years, that is. You will often see a little child hit a "naughty toy." That child's mind isn't fully formed yet. And a narcissist is a case of arrested development in this stage. Throughout life they continue to relate to objects, other animals, and human beings as all the same = objects in the playpen of their world.
I think this is why I have seen several narcissists absurdly get mad at animals as though those animals are just trying to make them mad. For example, those cats hanging around the bird feeder are evil. The brain-dead narcissist talks as though cats have a moral obligation to leave his birds alone. He takes what they do personally.
Like that priest once said to me, "They take everything personally."
But don't you take what they do personally. You're just a chess piece. It ain't about YOU - it's about what you can be used for.
You don't take it personally when a snake bites you. That snake is just being a snake. So, don't take it personally when a narcissist bites you either. He or she is just another kind of snake being a snake.
http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/07/danger-of-ascribing-normal-human.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Stosny
April 23, 2009 - 8:37pm — better offHe wrote an excellent book called Love Without Hurt. He rehabilitates SOME abusers, though doubtfully narcissistic ones. They are two different groups I guess. Even if you are out of a relationship it's still very good reading about recovering your sense of your own core value.
Website is www.compassionpower.com
I think Barbara linked it once someplace...it's good. He makes some great points about compassion. That a R can survive without a lot of love, but not without a lot of compassion. Meaning MUTUAL compassion, of course, lol.
whatever
April 23, 2009 - 11:42am — quietude (not verified)I sooo can relate to these feelings! I'm not sure if there is anything I can offer you right now to help other than that.
You say he's distant, is there anything you suspect or forsee as to why he might leave on his own? I totally get not being able to give him the boot. The break up is tough, followed by a few miserable weeks...it's worth enduring to come out on the other side though. Of course, I'm just speaking from my own experience/feelings here.
Sending good thoughts your way...
whatever
April 16, 2009 - 2:07pm — Barbara (not verified)it's PTSD
NO MORE CALLING HIM - NO MORE. The more you do, the more you will have these incidents.
Do this for YOU!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Whatever
April 17, 2009 - 1:51am — Lisa E. ScottI agree with Barbara that you should not call him anymore. The more you do, the more difficult it will be. You are not co-dependent, you are in love with a man who is incapable of love and it takes time to break free from this type of relationship. Don't beat yourself up, that's the worst thing you can do. Be patient with yourself, but stay focused on the truth and the reality of the situation. You will get there eventually and please know we are here to support you every step of the way.
ok
April 15, 2009 - 9:13am — Barbara (not verified)let's hope you are right about the antidepressants.
let me know.
Remember they take a good 4-6 weeks to really notice any significant difference.
Hang tough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
how to,,,
April 14, 2009 - 4:06pm — Barbara (not verified)No antidepressants won't make you strong - you will get that way AFTER YOU LEAVE
They won't help you think clearly - that happens AFTER YOU LEAVE.
What they do is calm the anxiety and when you get to 'the end of your rope' - they give you more rope to hold on to.
Go to a DV crisis center - ask to see an advocate - and then SEE THEM. Sit down and make an exit plan. Then carry it out.
Don't wait for a pill to do this for you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
whatever
April 14, 2009 - 12:16am — Barbara (not verified)I totally agree with Lisa - do this for you.
Maybe you don't wait for your boiling point. Maybe you tell yourself (like I did) that you are disgusted and fed up. Enough is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
your right...
April 14, 2009 - 2:17pm — whatever2009Ladies,
I agree I NEED to do this for myself. I just WISH the anxiety would go away. If it wasnt for that, I would be okay.
It is hard to leave anyone. This should be easier, due to the lack of empathy, but he makes up for that later.
(another thing that has also happened to me my whole life)
Part of me feels guilty. Part of me will miss him (the nice things)Part of me is excited to date. Part of me is excited to do things for me, on my schedule. We dont live together, he suggested it once, but I like my independence as well.Oh wait...he wanted me to move in, "to help me". I didnt fall for that one.
Im just terrified of being alone, which is what I should be embracing. Im just backwards.
I wonder...will the antidepressents, make me more strong? Maybe start thinking more for myself?
whatever
April 13, 2009 - 12:59pm — Barbara (not verified)are you in counseling or coaching?
that would help you tremendously
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
yep.
April 13, 2009 - 1:19pm — whatever2009Yes...I am in counseling and just started an antidepressent. I want to feel better, I just dont have the strength.
no buts about it
April 13, 2009 - 9:25am — Barbara (not verified)You're trauma bonded and brainwashed, whatever...
excerpts:
This seeking of proximity is not the same thing as having bonded with her the way she has bonded with him. That level of bonding would require the full spectrum of connections in the emotional brain, which the psychopath does not have. There are numerous emotions that the psychopath lacks that are required for natural bonding.
However, he does have the ability to “attach.†That level of attachment only requires the desire to be around a “special person†and pleasure from that person. Although psychopaths do not get much pleasure from affection, power is very pleasurable for them. Psychopaths seek others because it is through human contact that they get to experience their Central Three: power, status, and dominance. Relationships are the only avenues from which they obtain the Central Three.
Psychopaths, therefore, do seek out relationships and “attach†to the people who become a vehicle for their dominance.
The love bond transcends hate, so she remains bonded in spite of her loathing.
In one sentence he is likely to say how attached and bonded he is and in the next sentence remind her how disposable she is or how he will leave her or the relationship. Some psychopaths don’t say it out right but “hint†or leave clues lying about that they are thinking of leaving, or they become aloof, detached, disinterested, and distant.
With a complete straight face, he can say one thing and do another, do something and say the opposite, or say and do the opposite of what he did last week. These dichotomies produce serious distress in the women because of the chronic instability in the relationship. As they try to align themselves with his belief system, it shifts. As they try to align with his behaviors or promises, these shift. This constant shifting and moving keeps women off-balance and continuously striving to stabilize the relationship.
This flip/flop of contradictory/opposite behavior and traits are what we refer to as the dichotomies of the pathological love relationship.
The dichotomies represent the existence of both the good and the bad shown at different times in the relationship. They begin when the psychopath can no longer completely function in the mirage he first created.
The more invested she is, the harder it is for her to disengage from her internal relationship reward system and leave the psychopath. Her high relationship investment can do nothing but benefit the psychopath, while his low relationship investment has disaster written all over it for her.
She thinks about leaving or takes steps to leave the relationship and that triggers profound anxiety in her. Without friends and family as support to help her manage her anxiety, she is in need of anxiety relief.
When we wonder why it’s difficult for women to leave psychopaths, the difficulty is connected at least in part, to how trance has affected her state dependent learning of motivation to leave and her actual performance of leaving.
- WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS
Why? Because of his PATHOLOGY.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
wow.
April 13, 2009 - 9:55am — whatever2009I cannot agree MORE. This sentence....She thinks about leaving or takes steps to leave the relationship and that triggers profound anxiety in her. Without friends and family as support to help her manage her anxiety, she is in need of anxiety relief.
This is my problem. The anxiety from the feelings of being abandoned and being discarded are what prevent me from doing so. Its really sad, that I would rather a "fake, loveless," realtionship, then to feel anxious. Its hit a sore spot for sure. I do not have a supportive family. However I have fantastic friends.But they have there own lives, and unfortunaley dont quite understand. This is a horrible way to live, and feel. Sometimes I just feel completely beaten.
whatever2009
April 13, 2009 - 10:22am — quietude (not verified)You may just have to hit your boiling point to make the decision to get out of there. I 'overstayed' mine because of security, familiarity, being part of a 'couple', etc...and those things to me are important.
I admit it's a little frightening being on my own. But it's better now because there is an obvious relief to not having to deal with his daily B.S:
*I no longer have to worry what he thinks or feels, in an unhealthy, obsessive way
*I don't have to be his emotional cheerleader, which some days I still had to even though I may have been having a bad day myself
*I'm not on his time schedule
*I don't have the steady diet of guilt he'd feed me if I don't live up to his idea of how I should act or treat him
*When I ask someone a question, I get an answer - not the silent treatment because they're still pissed off about something that triggered a memory of an incident from a year ago.
*I don't feel like a 'slacker' anymore because I was supposed to give him a massage and got tied up with something else (even if it involved tending to kids), so had to put up with the subtle attitude of nobody cares about him, he comes last, poor him...
*I don't have to watch everything I say, especially anything that sounds like I'm remotely making fun of him, such as sarcasm
*I can look forward to the day when being a relationship means being equal, where it's all about BOTH of us and our needs, not just a one-sided deal
Whew...there's a lot more too. Personally, it's a huge load off my mind. I'm not saying life is easy, but not having to deal with mind games makes a big difference.
In my opinion, you either leave soon and be less damaged, or take years to leave, and endure more damage that you just have to work harder to get through.
WOOOOW! I feel like you were
April 13, 2009 - 11:34am — whatever2009WOOOOW! I feel like you were involved with my N. I constantly worry about what he thinks/feels. I obsess so much. Almost everything you said, I can relate to. I guess part of me, still thinks him screwing up, would make things so much easier to walk away from. Being angry, disappointed, abandon has been part of my life always. I wish I didnt have to come to a boiling point. I want to be so strong, I know I have it in me, I just have to find it.
Try and think of his words
April 11, 2009 - 7:28pm — CarolynTry and think of his words to you and his telling you that he doesn't do relationships as a game like chess or maybe even like marketing. Remember the cabbage patch dolls and beanie babies. they just said they didn't have enough to go around and people lined up for blocks all over the country to get a chance to buy them.In reality it was just a marketing trick to make people anxious to buy one and there were plenty of dolls to sell. they just wanted consumers to be desperate to get one! He is telling you he is not available so you want to do what you can to make him available to you.He is your beanie baby. He is manipulating you to a place where he can control you totally and harm you. It is an intellectualy driven abuse of your emotions.
If he doesn't do girlfriends, is a sex addict, and you have other ideas for what you want just cut it off-take back your power and do lisa's suggestion of no contact ever.
I know....but....
April 13, 2009 - 8:50am — whatever2009This is so crazy. I have NEVER felt the way I feel about him about anyone. I beleive your right, intially I wanted to see if I could "change" him, make him a better person etc...That is what I do. It started to work, he doesnt have any other girls around was always calling me, everything happened so fast. I dont know why, I really dont. But I cannot WALK away. It breaks me thinking about it. Not to mention, even if I were going to walk away, I just cut him off, no explanation.
He's not always bad, this is what keeps me so confused. I also NEVER express how Im feeling, as I fear he will abandon me. I know how pathetic this sounds...TRUST me!
Im really hoping throught therapy and anti-depressents my head will become so much clearer, I will be able to express myself in a productive way. Its like Im stuck in this RUT.I want to start excersing, doing more things for myself, but I feel so tired and lazy and depressed all the time. All I do is sleep.
I also never quite understand what the point of saying things is for them. He said, "he doesnt do gf's" while totally treating me like one. What is the point? If there ego is so big, why dont they just keep doin what there doin opposed to the opposite?
Whatever
April 13, 2009 - 11:31pm — Lisa E. ScottYou have to remember that while you think their ego is big, they really have no self-confidence. Narcissists have a self-inflated injured ego and compensate for it by putting you down. I love what Quietude said about the "relief" she feels not having to worry about his needs or moods anymore. I would so much rather be alone than with someone who wants to control me and put me down to make himself feel better. You don't deserve this either! I know you can do this for yourself. We're here for you!
Stay strong,
Lisa
He has something he knows
April 9, 2009 - 8:41pm — CarolynHe has something he knows you are looking for but he does not plan to deliver! Look at what he is offering and try to find it in someone else. I once wrote down everything I was looking for in a partner-I had a list of 26 characteristics-then I compared my partner at the time to the list and he did not have even one of the things on the list!
Years ago I was standing outside of a bakery waiting for someone and there was this kid looking longingly at a very delicious pastry. he counted his money and he had just enough to buy this french pastry. He came out with the pastry in a bag, took it out and with great expectation took a huge bite, and his eyes showed shock. I was afraid he was chocking so I asked him what was wrong, with tears in his eyes, he handed me the pastry and it was filled with SPINACH!
I went into the bakery with him and we talked to the French owner and we found another one that had a chocolate filling and I bought it for him. the poor kid. the owner marked the spinach pastries in the window so this wouldn't happen again.
The boy left thrilled with his delicious chocolate treat. he just had to get past the spinach to get to the chocalate.
I think you have a spinach pastry! Go on to the next one.
carolyn
spinach pastry
May 19, 2009 - 3:42pm — FawnI love this analogy! I was married to a Spinach Pastry! I thought that if it looked that good on the outside, it must be delicious and sweet and gooey and satisfying on the inside too. Wrong!
This whole co-dependence thing has me a little bothered, I have to admit. If someone really believes they are co-dependent, I don't have a problem with that. I haven't ever truly believed in it myself and I was in Al Anon back in the early 90's BEFORE I married Mr. Wonderful. Melody Beattie had just written Codependent No More and I read it, and I couldn't own it. There was something else wrong, something that I couldn't put my finger on.
I have found my answer now after spending over half of my life with an abusive, worthless momma's boy who is never going to grow up and be the man that I needed him to be. He isn't worthy of my love. I am pissed that it took me this long to figure it out and to believe it and that I have had to go through so much pain to get out of it. No one saved me. I had to save myself.
There were people in my life who tried to tell me, counselors, friends, etc., but I wasn't ready to hear the truth. I went to Al Anon several times for extended periods of time, and it helped me somewhat when I was younger, because it helped me focus on ME instead of HIM.
I went back to Al Anon as a last ditch effort right before h moved out for good and I went to meetings every week, sometimes twice, for about a year. It didn't help. I felt judged, I felt gossiped about. He joined THE PROGRAM too, btw, about 4 months after me. He has been sober since, or so he says. Woo hoo! All of his problems are solved. I think that so much of their advice was crap, or else he didn't get it. Now why would that be a surprise. With counseling, or AA or anything all anyone knows is what you tell them. They can't follow you around 24/7 to see how you really act.
He hasn't made amends to me for even one of the totally rotten things that he did to me. He conveniently forgot them. That is my main issue with AA, they don't deal with the mental illness that many folks in the program have that makes them self-medicate with alcohol in the first place! I also think that it is very male-centered and can even be like prison. Some people go into the program sort of naive and come out with more knowledge about how to REALLY screw someone over, or work the system. I think that is what happened to the N in my life. He hangs out with the dregs of society because he can feel superior to them and they don't judge him for all the awful things that he does and the stooopid decisions he makes.
They didn't get it in Al Anon. I vacillated between feeling like I was suffering from a withdrawal so bad it must be like heroin withdrawal and feeling very much at peace with staying married to him.
It is my opinion that we all have to get where we need to be somehow. My therapist has helped me more than anything else. She gets me. She saw us together in counseling. She gets him. She didn't push me to get over him. She listened to me whine and complain and rant and rave for well over 18 months about him. One of the best things that she told me one session early on when I felt like I couldn't breathe without him was that the marriage was dead and I was grieving it, and that I could stay married as long as I needed to until I was ready to leave. She told me that the marriage as I knew it was dead, but that maybe we could have some other kind of relationship someday. That allowed me to make that leap emotionally and admit that my marriage was over.
I'm stubborn, but not stupid. I knew that I wasn't getting what I needed. He let me down over and over and over again. I didn't think I would EVER get over him. I'm getting there. I feel sick when I see him. I feel sick when I think about him. I'm moving on with my life, without him. So are my kids. I can't even seem to call them OUR kids right now because he has completely abandoned all of us. I read on this site somewhere that part of what makes divorce so hard is that your spouse didn't die. You suffer the loss of death but also rejection.
Rejection hurts. But again, you get over it eventually and walk away, knowing that something or someone better will come along. Your sweet, gooey, chocolate filled croissant or something equally yummy will find its way to you.
caution
April 1, 2009 - 6:13pm — Barbara (not verified)There's a woman on the net who, she and her husband sell a "CURE FOR NARCISSISM" program.
IMHO anyone who says you can cure or cope with an N or P is trading on your "toxic hope" that you can somehow get them back to the guy you first met and keep him there.
That's not possible. Clinicians & researchers greater than I will confirm this to be true. Sorry. Anyone who tells you different is IMHO - committing fraud.
You cope by getting as far away from them as possible. You can feel sorry for them and/ or pray for them: FROM A DISTANCE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Pathologicals only discard the best, the most precious of gems of people... not the worst. They keep fellow abusers, gossips & enabling lackeys close. They despise the principled & honest. Their discarding of you is then their highest commendation!" - A. Valerious
TY for your welcome and messages!
April 1, 2009 - 11:19am — krissyoIt means a lot to me and I have already started to work on not caring so much about his moods and sulking, manipulative fits. We have actually been in counselling for a while, marriage and individual counselling. I go pretty frequently to help me cope but our marriage counsellor was very negative and all he ever talked about was divorce which depressed me even more. But he did do something interesting, he insisted on pressing my husband why he felt it ok to tell me what to wear but not care what I told him what to wear. My husband puts on a very good front/face for counsellors I have come to learn. Ns are beguiling I am learning (or conversely downright disdainful which my ex was). Everyone loves my current husband and thinks he is so nice and wonderful etc and I should be happy I have such a good husband and father. What they do not see is this other side that wreaks havoc on my peaceful sensibilities. But every now and then this side takes control of him when we are out and a few of my girlfriends have noticed it and were pretty alarmed at how pissed off he seemed to be. They've said wow I can see why you say that brings you down. I don't even wanna be around him now when he is acting like that. They are like...why? I'm like... I don't know. Maybe because he doesn't like what I'm wearing, what my daughter is wearing, or how she might be acting, or that his hair did not go quite as well as he wanted. A myriad of reasons to which I never know. It's always something. They say, that can't be good for your daughter. To which of course I agree. So last night, I came home and read your posts. I felt better (and empowered!) and I was very cool and disarmed. I did not go out of my way to be warm and friendly which I normally am, I came in and stated that I did not like how he threw everything around the house and would he please clean up after himself. He made dinner to which I helped but I was distant. I told myself that I don't have to worry about being this way, he never worries about being distant from me. He said wow you're in a mood! I said o no not at all, just keeping to myself kind of like how you always do. He said ok, fair enough. And then I said very matter-of-factly, "o and by the way, you will no longer address our daughter at mealtimes regarding her eating. I will do that from now on. Say nothing at all. Is that understood?" Well, that certainly got his attention! He said "Yes understood. I'm happy not to." LIE! And when dinner rolled around what a chipper pleasant man sitting across from me. A different person I'd say! I said "Wow how pleasant you are this evening! What a nice change. Do you think you can be like this more often, it beats the norm". He said "It can quickly change trust me". I said "O no I much prefer this." to which he said "I cannot be like this all the time." To which I said "Well then next time when I make you aware of how unpleasant you are being, you will no longer deny it and say that it is my imagination because you will know and understand that it is indeed the OPPOSITE of how you are behaving now...which is PLEASANT and therefore a nice change". He was loving to me all night. He was kind and he was complimentary. He was sweet and playful with my daughter. He was doing damage control I'd guess. And this is what I have been falling for every time. But last night, I was wiser and less reactive emotionally meaning I did not fall for this act this time only to see that other more frequent man-child rear its ugly head again. It's tough to wake up and realize you are not in a romantic marriage but a manipulative and too-often difficult one where I am expected to play a game AT ALL TIMES and at ANY GIVEN TIME to receive love and affection. He has evidently chosen a needy woman w/ low self-esteem issues due to the break-up of my first marriage and he plays me (unwittingly perhaps but nonetheless). I can no longer be needy. The less I care about and for him it seems the better off I will be...and after all it seems he set it up this way anyway. It almost seems like the N sabotages himself and his relationships himself. But why???
Krissyo
April 1, 2009 - 3:16pm — Lisa E. Scott"It's tough to wake up and realize you are not in a romantic marriage but a manipulative and too-often difficult one where I am expected to play a game AT ALL TIMES and at ANY GIVEN TIME to receive love and affection."
I know exactly how you feel and I feel so bad that this is what you must make the most of; it certainly doesn't seem fair. You should not have to walk on eggshells around him all the time, but I know you do.
I definitely believe Narcs sabotage the relationship. Absolutely. The reason being is because they really don't want to be tied down so they resent you for tying them down. They know they treat you badly and you put up with it so they have no respect for you. I believe they sub-consciously treat us so badly in an unknown attempt to push us away so that we will leave them. They're addicted to the narcissistic supply we provide them so they are not ready to let go of that unless they have a replacement, but at the end of the day, they have no respect for us.
However, as I said before, we are not weak. The whole reason they were attracted to us in the first place is because we are strong, independent, compassionate women. If you think about it, when they look for a wife, they're really looking for a mother to take care of them. This person must be self-sufficient (not have too many needs of her own), strong (to deal with his shit), compassionate and sensitive (to stroke his ego) and of course, impressive in looks and stature.
When they look for a mistress, they look for a whore. This is the only thing that turns him on. This or porn.
So I don't want to hear you or anyone call yourself weak again, ok?! :)
xoxo,
Lisa
The Mother Thing
April 4, 2009 - 12:08am — ElenaLisa,
Oh my, the above is so true, that when they look for a wife they are looking for a mother. One time my N told me - "I like it when you serve my dinner on the table, instead of me getting up to get my plate, because this makes me feel taken care of". I will never forget those words, I felt like his maid. And whenever I would ask him to get me a cup of water or to help me with something - he said I was being clingy. Can you believe it! And then later, I discovered he visited a nude strip club. An example of what you shared - they want a mother at home, but they also want a whore.
what they are really looking for
April 4, 2009 - 12:57am — Barbara (not verified)Watch STEPFORD WIVES
THAT'S what they are looking for. Not a mother or a whore - but an NSupply-Bot
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Free articles & information on surviving & understanding abusive behavior. Updated daily.
Lisa's comments
April 2, 2009 - 1:41pm — cassiemayAh yes....
"they resent being tied down" even though They brought this "commitment" on themselves by luring us into marriage. My STBX said eventually "You are a burden". WHY? because you feed me food? Honestly, I could not think of another way in which I was a "burden", well except, of course (!) maybe having a few of my Own needs and once in awhile
"bitching" or "nagging" to him about them. Yeah, nice perspective to reflect back to one you supposedly "love".
Also....."I no longer respect you". Yeah. Because I caved and caved and caved to his wishes to avoid argument and confrontation and rejection. Then......the ultimate turn around: "I don't respect you". No win situation. You object, you are criticized, you don't object, you are not respected anymore. Jeesh.... CM
burden
April 2, 2009 - 10:13pm — Barbara (not verified)Yeah, Turd (my exNH) has said that to me NUMEROUS times since I became disabled. He's Mr. Compassion in front of people but Mr. ABUSER at home.
They respect nothing and no one but themselves. Frankly, If they don't respect you that usually means that you stood up to them. Sucks to be them, huh?
hmm...
April 1, 2009 - 4:16pm — whatever2009I beleive that they sabotage the relationship, when they start to realize that it IS a relationship, and no longer "casual". However, when they start to push you away, and you go without any questions, there they are again....pulling you back in. Or when they beleive they are threatened and someone else wants you and you may be interested, they make sure to occupy your time.
My N, pretends he doesnt care, and then throws little comments at me here and there. Its actually really predictable.
I think they respect the ones they feel are "important" enough. What I mean is.....they WANT you, because you make them look good. You are the strong, independent, compassionate women, and if they give you up completely, what does that say about them? They look stupid, and god forbid you make them look stupid.
They only want whores for sex. (sex exactley how they want it). They want to keep you around as long as you continue to make them look good.