Are PD's bad people?

goldie's picture

Why do we struggle with the notion that we were infiltrated in our own homes and hearts by evil? Why is this concept difficult to wrap the brain around? Why would we prefer to live in denial that they are even a PD? When we attempt to warn others they look at US like we are the one's with the problem. Why can't WE move on and stop trying to "cause trouble" for the him and his new supply? We are trained when bad things happen to let it go and move on. People do not want to hear about our unsavory mess. Just forget about it we are told. Get on with your life. You will find someone better.

All righty then.....The PD has you doubting yourself and then others imply that your wanting to warn them is dramatic. No one could be that bad. It takes two to tango.

I asked myself, what is my interpretation of bad? What do we collectively see as bad?

The boogie man. That is the first memory I have of someone bad. The boogie man is going to get you. He sounds bad, I recall thinking as a child, the boogie man sounds scary. The man who shot President Kennedy was bad. The Charles Manson Family were brainwashed by Manson so he was a bad person. The kids in the neighborhood in trouble with the police must be bad. People who intentionally hurt others are bad. That was my message. My father hurt us, is he bad? NO, your father is not bad, he is your father and he loves you. He does? Yes, all father's love their daughters. He is cruel to me. No, he does these things for your own good. He does? Yes, he has a lot on his plate, it is not easy being a father. What can you do to be a better daughter? I try as hard as I can, yet he seems angry most of the time. He is just hot tempered, he love's you with all of his heart. He does? Of course he does, what father would not love his daughter. I don't know, I guess you must be right. He hits me, tells me I am bad, and ignores me most of the time. Don't say such mean things about your father. Why not? It is disrespectful. Oh, I see, I will keep my mouth shut and be a good daughter. That is right, now you are getting it. So, fathers get a free pass? Yes. Why? Because they are your fathers and this is the way it is. Yes, yes, that makes sense now. That was the beginning of my cognative dissonance. What I saw as true and OTHERS perceptions and messages were a contradiction.

I went to 12 Step meetings and heard horrific stories regarding activities engaged in "while under the influence." Are they bad? No, they were sick and suffering at the time due to their addictions so they did not mean to do those things. They are sober now, so they are better. Oh, I get it, so those things do not count? Correct. How come some of them are sober now and still seem bad? They are still recovering, these things take time. Oh, I said, a free pass, they get a free pass. MORE cognative dissonance.

I went to church and was told that God's Love washes over all sin. What I said? God forgives all sin? So if you do something bad, then God doesn't mind anymore and you are good now. Only if you are willing to repent. Oh, so if you repent and then do it again, now what? You repent again silly. Oh, yes, I see, now I get it, you are no longer bad if you repent. Yes, that is it, they get a free pass, that is good, a free pass. MORE, cognative dissonance.

I looked at the school system and noticed some bad kids there. No, I was told, they are not bad, they have "issues" and are on medication and go to the Doctor and they will be just fine. They will, are you sure? Yes, all kids are good and you have to treat them all the same now, this is the law. So the bad kids get to torture the good kids and this is o.k? Yes, we have inclusion now and they are all the same. They are? So, my son can be bullied and you do not have a problem with this? No, we don't, afterall, it takes two to tango. Each kid needs to take responsiblity for their part. They do? Yes, no one is perfect. They all get a free pass, I get it now. More cognative dissonance.

I looked at the media and saw some bad people. Surely they are really bad. No, they are not, they did some bad things but now they are sorry. They made a public apology so now we must forgive them and forget about it. We must? Yes, we must, everyone deserves a second chance. They do? Yes, they see the errors of their ways now and they will never do it again. They won't? No, they are very sorry now. They are? Yes they are. They were just good people gone bad. I see, I get it now, we better give them a free pass. Yes, now you are getting it. Yes, I do get it, people are all basically good so we need to forgive them, give them more chances, and they will do better next time. Exactly, you are brilliant. Oh thank you, I try so hard to be understanding. MORE congative dissonance.

I was an empath in training. Born a senstive child and those traits in me were reinforced along my path. I am a good person, I told myself, good people go to heaven, they get along with others, and they look on the bright side of life and surely will be protected from "bad" people. Why would anyone bad want to hurt me; I am good.

Enters, the PD. My goodness you are a good person. Oh thank you PD. I have many problems and have been misunderstood my entire life, maybe you can help me. I am certain of it PD. I know all about helping people. We are all good, we all deserve a second chance, we all get free passes, and we ignore anything in our heads which is confusing or makes no sense. Excellent says the PD, you are amazing. I have never met anyone like you before, so loving, loyal, trusting, forgiving, and willing to take on a challenge like me. Oh PD, you make me blush, no one has ever said such wonderful things about me or knows me as well as you. I aim to please says the PD. I don't deserve your goodness. Yes, you do PD, everyone deserves goodness. WOW, says, PD, I am certain that I am falling in love with you, you are my soulmate, the love of my life, I want to spend my life with you, making you happy. I will never leave you or hurt you like anyone else ever did. You are my special little buttercup, flower, angel. Oh, PD are you serious, can this be real, I just want to pinch myself. It is real my love, you are safe now with big daddy PD. Oh, thank you God, my prayers have been answered. You are amazing PD. No, my little empath, it is you who are the amazing one.

Act one is over. Bravo, bravo, bravo. The applause is deafening. Encore, encore, encore. Could we please just stay in act one and forget about acts 2 and 3? No, we are going to take a brief intermission and be back later with your story.

Act 2, please insert YOUR STORY.

Act 3.

You now can do nothing right. PD has not exactly kept any of his promises. The cognative dissonance is moving full throttle, with no hope of understanding coming anytime soon. I think I need to get away from the PD. My mind is racing and I am confused. He really is a good person, right? No, he is a PD, he is not good and does not care about you. I know it seems that way, he loves me doesn't he? No he does not know how to love and will eventually destroy you. What if he is sorry and says he will never do it again? He will do it again, he is a PD, they do not change, they cannot change. Yes, he can, everyone can change if they try or want to. No, not him. Maybe we should go to church and he can repent. No, many PD's do go to church and it does not appear to change their behaviors at all. It doesn't, he seeems like he gets it now. He does? What is different? He was good for a week. A week a whole week and then what happened? He went back to the same as before. Can you see that he can't change? Maybe we should go to a therapist. Therapy does not work with a PD, they con their therapists. I know he did not like the last one, maybe we need to find one who specializes in PD's. No a therapist who specializes in PD will tell you that they only learn to better manipulate from therapy. What should I do, my life is a mess, yet, I have invested so much in him and do not want to lose him and begin again. I have never felt this way before and will try anything to make this work. You are not hearing me, PD's do not change, it is who and what they are. It is their personality. Their inner core. I don't know how to understand this. I have not been trained to understand this. I am an empath. I beleive in the basic goodness in people, that with enough love and attention everyone can change and do better. There must be some mistake here. I cannot wrap my brain around what you are saying. What are you saying? I am saying that he will bring you down and he will not give it a second thought. He will eventually discard you and leave you to pick up the pieces. Has he devalued you yet? Yes, he does that all the time. And you do not have a problem with this? I don't like it, he has already discarded me many times with OW and ST. This is o.k. for you? No of course it is not o.k. Then what is the problem? I just keep thinking that if there is any chance he may get better, I don't want to give up on him. Has he given up on you? I begin to cry. Why are you crying? Because I have been so busy thinking about the PD, that I forgot all about me.

I would now like you to get up and while looking into a mirror, say outloud, several times. "I am true to myself."

God bless,
Goldie

For additonal support, to join one of our support groups, or to speak with Goldie directly, http://www.lisaescott.com/blog/goldie

goldierocks@me.com

Comments

veejay's picture

WOW again...!!

Yes... absolutely... this is MY story too. Almost word for word, especially the last part.. the last step. Including me doing everything... in my power to 'help'. Thousands and thousands and thousands.... of euro's poorer and he's still the same bastard as he was in the beginning. How many therapists/doctors did we go to? I have lost count. He loved the attention. Now we're NC and in divorce proceedings and he's still trying to destroy me. One good thing, the only one in my story, is that he's gone back to his own country.. so not anywhere near me. The destruction, however, is in me. But I am determined to re-build and recover and be stronger and wiser than ever. This site is a god-send. Thank you so much... VJ xxx

Toni's picture

Wow

I don't know if it's because I've pretty much been reading this and other similar blogs non stop, but I woke up a little while feeling like I've had enough. I have been thru TOO much in my life including the death of my husband to let some sick lowlife keep hoovering me. I'm startinh to feel angry but in a strong, not crazy way, and I thank you all!

pumpkinpie's picture

Wow...

That's my life and way of thinking in a nutshell. Well written and very enlightening. Thank you!

owenjohnston's picture

normally, for whatever reason

normally, for whatever reason when i see a long post i tend not to read it, but i decided to read this one and even after 10 months NC i still had tears in my eyes

sometimes when healing we forget just how bad these people were to us, and this is a reminder of just what we went through

evergreen's picture

everyone should read this.

Thankyou for that excellent and accurate description of how we are all conditioned to excuse bad behavior again and again and believe if we don't we are the unforgiving bad ones!
It is hard to believe there is no redemption for these PDs but you only have to look at their track record to know its true THEY NEVER CHANGE!.
I'm glad I can say I am real. I have felt the hurt and pain of emotional abuse by a PD.Was trapped in a destructive cycle for 5 yrs and I am 3 mths out of it!
Finding this web site has helped me ...its putting me back on the path to reclaiming myself!

THankyou Goldie!

Slingback15's picture

Ohhhhhhh, now I get it!!!

Ohhhhhhh, now I get it!!! This is so spot on to the last 12 years of my life that it is a teeny bit frightening, but ultimately reassuring, that Im not actually losing my mind. I will remember this piece of blog when the doubts creep in....normally just before bed time and first thing in the morning. When do other people have doubts?

Toni's picture

Doubts

In answer to the question I have doubts "In the morning, in the evening, ain't we got fun!" (Sorry just an old song) Oh, and I have them All. Day. Long also. That was one heck of a post Goldie, bookmarking this one too. Thank you....

foolednolonger1's picture

Us the pope a catholic??Yes

Is the pope a catholic??

Yes they are B.A.D.

lillymarch's picture

There are bad people in this world.

Right?

Bad people. Really bad people. I know people who do drugs and then do bad things are under the influence but, in that moment they are bad. How are they not? It's bad to hurt other people. We know that. It's innate in all of us. Except the people who are screwed up.

My ex-Narc husband is a very bad person. Lies all the time. He's very screwed up. His mother is a horror story. Yes, he was a little innocent child but now he's a bad person. Yes, it wasn't his fault that him mother is terrible but once we become adults it's up to us.

(Just wrapping my brain around all of this.)

Thank you for this beautiful piece of writing.

jennifer's picture

Insightful

Thanks, that was very insightful and great writing. So helpful to hear another's journey and perspective and feel that common bond. I was forever feeling sorry for my father and my NH as they abused me because the empath in me fell for their pathic childhood stories. Well my childhood, sucked pretty bad and I never felt the need to get over on others to puff my own sense of importance. I never felt the need to crush another, critize or make fun of them to make them doubt themselves so I could more easily manipulate them. It is sad to me now to realize how much I let my father and my NH define who I was. I will never give another person that power over me again!

bgirl's picture

So sad but true. Me and

So sad but true.
Me and you.
And another thousand too..

Lots of love and thank you for being here for all of us. Goldie you have simply been an angel to so many of us xxx

X
B

TruthbeginsToday's picture

This is it...it's the truth

I've read this before but I decided that I needed a refresher course.It's so sad and shocking....PDs prey on good and kind.
Thanks for this post, it's a well written, insightful eye opener

She.can.have.him.'s picture

This is spot on. I can't

This is spot on. I can't believe I put up with my narc for so long and that I didn't know about NPD. Thank god my therapist told me to read up on NPD. I am running out of my marriage and not looking back. After 16 years married to be told by text/phone he wants a divorce should have been enough. Knowing what I know now makes it a bit easier.

sharlenemorgan's picture

Yes

Fucking my life and Thank you for this website.I am not alone and crazy.Really men and the sex.

nomoredenial's picture

great

post Goldie.....this is soooooo true

freaked's picture

Gr8 post, Goldie

Fantastic post Goldie. Im back here after many weeks, to be among friends. Been lonely and missed all of you very much. Feels good to be back home here.

Tigerlily's picture

Fantastic Post.

Couldn`t decide whether to laugh or cry, so decided instead just to keep putting one foot it front of the other. Plod .. plod...plod....

Believing that this leads somewhere is the basis of all faith. Faith keeps you moving forward, even when you don`t know where you`re going.

Plod...plod..plod....

Thankx, Goldie

shyloh's picture

Thank you Goldie. That is the

Thank you Goldie. That is the hardest part is believing they are N's. I too am an empath to a fault (and codependent too) and I have always believed that people can change with enough love, support,chances, etc. Even to this day, I had some belief that my ex N could change and even let him again blame me for 'abandoning' him. So thank you for this post:)

sadderbutwiser's picture

wow goldie

i don't post alot, but this made me feel so many emotions i don't know where to begin. i grew up catholic and believed in a merciful God, but what i have seen in my 50 years is the exact opposite. my husband and i have been hurt by alot of people and all we've ever been is "nice" and "good" to others and have been betrayed and shit on in return. we keep seeing a'holes with their great lives and bad people getting ahead. when i was "befriending" my narc, i said to him " i thought if you are nice to people they will be nice back." of course at the time, he totally agreed with me, then he proceeded to hurt me worse than anyone else ever had! then one of my best friends totally stabbed me in the back by spreading a rumor about me and the narc. people SUCK! i have no faith left in anything, and now my only daughter is in love with a charismatic narcissist (people have tried to warn her but she is in denial). what are the chances? i am at the end of my rope.

Movingforwardnow's picture

Wow!

How accurate.

Thank you Goldie. I hope everyone reads this.

xoxox
mfn

NarcSurvivor3's picture

What the crap?

Were you hiding in my closet when we were growing up because that is EXACTLY how the conversations went between me and my mom regarding my dad. Your post made me shudder. That's one thing I will never forget that my therapist said to me: "Your parents were together 52 years. You were specially trained to keep forgiving and tolerating his abuse - your Mom was the example."

That was an excellent description of life in Denial Town. Pisses me off so much that it has conditioned me to accept abuse. Not any more, though. Getting smarter by the minute. . .Thanks for sharing.

Emmy's picture

Oh ouch

Wow. So gut wrenchingly true.

We are not bad for being good. We are supposed to be good. It is not okay that they take advantage of this pureness of heart.

And society -- wow. Yeah. No one wants to hear. I don't care. I am speaking out anyway.

Thanks, Goldie. ((hugs))

wsh's picture

Dear Goldie,

I too am so sorry for all that you have endured. But (& maybe this is selfish) I also feel so very blessed that it has brought you HERE - to US - because you help us all so much! You've touched my heart - validated my life - and give so much hope! You are truly "GOLDEN"!

Thank you so much for being YOU.

rosa_lita's picture

Oh yeah, I am also

an uber-empath. I learned that phrase from the time I was researching sociopathy on the web.

This blog hit a nerve because I chose to go into the helping profession, working with children with emotional disorders, believing that with love, compassion, empathy and the right teaching methods, that every child deserved a chance. I was very naive.

Well, there are many disadvantaged children who DO deserve a chance. And then there is that small percentage of kids who are so obviously, glaringly personality disordered and sociopathic that there's not a whole lot you can do for them. They lack empathy for other kids, they charm and manipulate adults for their own advantage. They lie barefaced to teachers and parents. It is a scary thing to see in action.

I saw it with my own eyes but I couldn't believe it until I started researching sociopathy and NPD. I've sadly become quite good recognizing those children when I cross paths with them.

I gave my narcissist the "benefit of the doubt" for ages. Now I know that people have to prove that they are trustworthy and good. It's not something that you take for granted. I guess I learned something then.

no more an echo's picture

psychopaths start young!

scary rosa_lita,

The Bible says that even a CHILD is known by their ways. Wow.

My NarcoPath sister was a consummate liar and charmer of adults, too. They just couldn't see the real (manipulating) person behind her mask.

I was labeled the 'trouble-maker' and she 'the good one'.

lessonlearned's picture

ding ding ding!

so accurate, i feel like throwing up. realizing that my N was truly evil was a lightbulb moment, but internalizing that the lies & abuse would never change, not for me or anyone else, was a longer path.

just passed 1 year of NC & i've never been happier. only sorry that it took almost 4 years of a relationship dancing with the devil for me to learn & understand what he was made of.

no more an echo's picture

so, abuse = love?

Dear Goldie,

As usual, you are killing me softly with your song- ha! You summed up the NarcoPath experience/aftermath, to me, in one line:

"Because I have been so busy thinking about the PD, that I forgot all about me."

That, for me has been the crux of my problem. How did I (a lover of truth) get sucked into his disordered world and, more importantly, how do I get out of this black hole of his making?

I know I can navigate this because I am working on my co-dependent issues and I'm learning to 'dial down' the empathy a bit. Live and learn.

Thanks for an excellent post.

p.s. I never doubted the capacity for humans to be evil but shame on all the people in our lives that whitewashed, re-packaged and re-labeled the horrific things that were done to us.

fallingfoward's picture

mindblowing....

Goldie, once again you said so much in so few words. It sounds like my life, in many ways. The guilt that I feel to say someone treated me wrong or someone was bad is overwhelming to me at times. I have always felt like I cause that person to treat me wrong, because I wasn't good enough. But I am learning, that there are people with bad motives, people who will set out to destoy parts of your soul. The narcs that I let in my life, reaffirm what I felt deep in my soul, that I wasn't good enough. The CD that developed in my life as a young child let this feel like it was in some sense normal. I fought back in each situation, but I looked like the crazy one. Punish myself, because I didn't feel like I was playing by their rules. When inside I knew their rules were wrong. But my soul was always fighting to get out, to let it's voice be heard. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself with such great humility. A wonderful blog, one that I will reread many times to remind myself that it wasn't my fault.

love
ff

invisible's picture

Are PD's bad people

There is evil in the world (although it seems more commom theses days). I hope I'm not about to do a copyright infringement and if i do it is NOT intentional but there is a song by Stevie Nicks (my personal fav of all time), it is a demo called Mistaken Love (foresaken love) and you can here it on You tube. There are a few versions but try and watch and really listen to the words (in my opinion the best one is done by someone who calls themselves Silver Springs) I had seen in an interview where Stevie says none of her songs are made up, they have all happened to either her or someone close to her. Just listen to the song-sounds like she ran into one too-or knows someone who did

fearlessfemale's picture

I'm sorry Goldie

just in case no one ever told you sweet dear...
I am sorry for all the pain your father and PD's caused you.

You are a precious angel and I have no doubt God put you here on earth as a gift to all who have been hurt by narcissism.

Can't even imagine the number of hearts that have a magic "Goldie Bandaid" on them right now. Thank you sweet girl...I have since pulled my bandage off and the scars have healed quite nicely.

-fefe

erika astrid's picture

BAD?You bet....

Hi Goldie,WOW,great article.Sounds like my life.
It really made me sad to read all this,don't know
what else to say. ;o(
Mine was bad,he really was!And he is still getting away with it,unbelievable!!And HE knows it too,and is enjoying
it.Why on earth did I put up with all this for so long?
Because I too,always thought there must be some good in everyone..SWEET DREAMS....not with a PD,no way!!

Thanks for sharing,you are a great help.
xx

eyeswideopen35's picture

Amazing G oldie, I could read

Amazing G oldie, I could read your posts all day ever day!

Belle de jour's picture

brilliant

brilliant

bluegirl's picture

Really brilliant. I too

Really brilliant. I too always believed I was a nice person, cared too much about people, and when I loved N I held nothing back. For the first time in my life I opened my heart wide and completely. I don't think I will ever be able to do that again.

Emmy's picture

yeah

That is a scary thought, bluegirl. It will be hard, for sure.

LindsayM's picture

That described my ex....

Wow that pretty much described my ex. He promised many,many things but never ever did them like Lindsay we are going to the amusement park I promise before it closes needless to say it closed and we never went or when it was fall I wanted to go to a haunted house and he said yes Lindsay I promise we will go to the haunted house haunted houses came and went.. So many promises....

I am better off without him and his empty promises and his attention seeking. I cried more often than I was smiling when I was with him so I am much,much better off and his hoovering right now isn't trying to say hey Lindsay god I miss you I really could use you as a friend right now! I know he is just tossing breadcrumbs at me or trying to his ego stroked he needs some " company" and it doesn't involve talking.......